2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

I think Pat, Malone and Larry would be fine...didn't those three play on the greatest Olympic Team ever?

I think Kidd wouldn't mind taking a backseat...he can rebound, pass and defend. I think Paul would be a willing 4th wheel - even capable of scoring binges himself.

My only concern is how Ewing would fair against the All-Time Great centers like Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, David, Malone, etc...and even then he'd have Malone to help him down low....but THEN - if Pat and Malone doubled, those same great Bigs are well-known for PASSING.....

I wish we could simulate these rosters.

Bird can play with anyone, but Malone and Ewing came off bench in limited minutes.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

My only concern with Patrick Ewing is the Ewing Theory. 

But really, his teams are better and did well when he's not playing. That really has to be something, eh?

[GreenFaith1819]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

A lot of us still remember this series:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM

Slower than molasses?

Doesnt look that fast to me.

Also doesnt show that range out to the 3pt line either,


I will just agree to disagree, but it is becoming very apparent that all of a sudden Ewing has become the best center of all time who has range out to the 3pt line.

Tine archibald is the ultimate game changer.

Larry bird doesn't need the ball.

and Karl Malone doesn't need set up and he and Ewing wont get in the way of each other.



Also it seems everyone is now just playing for second place.

Well - this IS CELTICS BLog, LOL....

But I am sure that The Voters will not have favorites

I am considering paying off folks for voting for MIA and Dwyane Wade..............J/K

[nickagneta]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

A lot of us still remember this series:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM

Slower than molasses?

Doesnt look that fast to me.

Also doesnt show that range out to the 3pt line either,


I will just agree to disagree, but it is becoming very apparent that all of a sudden Ewing has become the best center of all time who has range out to the 3pt line.

Tine archibald is the ultimate game changer.

Larry bird doesn't need the ball.

and Karl Malone doesn't need set up and he and Ewing wont get in the way of each other.



Also it seems everyone is now just playing for second place.

This is the type of crap I don't want in this game. Silky consider yourself formally warned. Another such post will cost you your team.

[Silky]

Jason Kidd is an amazing pick. Great, great defender and a triple double threat.

I’d be very tempted to go:

Ewing
Malone
Bird
Pierce
Kidd

6th man: Tiny

I love this team as a team, not just as a collection of talent.

Me too. I would definitely do that. The team has enough scorers in the starting lineup. Someone like Kidd who influences the game more as outside of scoring makes them better than Tiny does. Plus, Tiny would be awesome as a change-of-pace PG off the bench. 6th man extraordinaire.

Kidd is sensational value at this point. He was my 2nd choice at PG in the 3rd round. I thought we were going to have a rush of big PGs to help matchup against Oscar and Magic. Obviously I was wrong but I had expected Kidd, Frazier and Payton to all go in that 3rd round.

I dont like the fit of Kidd and Bird personally.
Bird deserves to have the ball, alot, and Kidds peak as a player saw him as a high usage PG with very limited range.

I think a 3andD point gaurd would have suited Bird much much more.

Disagree. Bird loved playing alongside and off ball with a certain PG, who, though he wasn't the passer of Kidd, is a similar player. Bird loved smart basketball minds. He would thrive playing with the very high BBIQ, Kidd.

Agree strongly.

I read a study once — maybe coming out of the SloanConference? — indicating that championship teams tended to feature at least two guys who shared a lot of touches and created a lot of baskets for others.  Look st some of the great teams: Celtics, Spurs, Heat, Warriors, Cavs, Bulls. All had multiple guys who had the ball frequently.

Bird and Kidd feeding Malone the ball? Pierce playing an inside / outside game? Ewing in the post? 4 All-NBA defenders? Tiny off the bench?

Get outta here. I love it.

Ewing who cannot go 13 feet away and is slow as molasses, Tiny who is grossly undersized, Pierce needing the ball, Bird needing the ball, and Kidd needing the ball. there is no off the ball players on that team at all.

Zero

None

I think we profoundly disagree.

I assume you never saw Ewing play?

I saw knee pad ewing who could get out of his own way.

Never stepped further than 15 feet from the rim.

A lot of us still remember this series:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bwCjvAQyHjM

Slower than molasses?

Doesnt look that fast to me.

Also doesnt show that range out to the 3pt line either,


I will just agree to disagree, but it is becoming very apparent that all of a sudden Ewing has become the best center of all time who has range out to the 3pt line.

Tine archibald is the ultimate game changer.

Larry bird doesn't need the ball.

and Karl Malone doesn't need set up and he and Ewing wont get in the way of each other.



Also it seems everyone is now just playing for second place.

This is the type of crap I don't want in this game. Silky consider yourself formally warned. Another such post will cost you your team.

well that seems to go to a far extreme.

How is that against any rules? and how is that different than anything that has been posted previously? When multiple people are ganging up on my opinion, I cannot banter like this?

I will delete the post if it is that upsetting, frankly I do not see what the big deal is.

[action781]

Nick is doing this out of great kindness in his heart.  If you don't know what he's asking you to stop, he's referring to:

1) putting words in people's mouth:

but it is becoming very apparent that all of a sudden Ewing has become the best center of all time

Nobody said any of that.


2) using sarcasm/exaggeration that takes the fun out of the game for everyone

Also it seems everyone is now just playing for second place.

Nobody said they're the undisputed first place team.  None of us want to hear that and feel like there's nothing to play for here.  I know I certainly don't feel that way.  If anything, I think your arguing is causing these people to come to the defense of Philly much more than they would have otherwise.  I wish you would stop criticizing Philly and start criticizing my team!


If nick says to stop doing something I ask you to just try your best to abide.  He could just quit on organizing this game for us if he wanted to. 

TP to you and TP to nick for a smooth remainder of this fun game

[Silky]

The Current SA Spurs lineup

PG: Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Hedu
PF: Hakeem
C: Yao

Right now I am log, strong and have a special level of defense that is unmatched by any other team.

I do have a few tricks up my sleeve yet in the coming rounds so this may not be the final lineup.

[Silky]

Nick is doing this out of great kindness in his heart.  If you don't know what he's asking you to stop, he's referring to:

1) putting words in people's mouth:

but it is becoming very apparent that all of a sudden Ewing has become the best center of all time

Nobody said any of that.


2) using sarcasm/exaggeration that takes the fun out of the game for everyone

Also it seems everyone is now just playing for second place.

Nobody said they're the undisputed first place team.  None of us want to hear that and feel like there's nothing to play for here.  I know I certainly don't feel that way.  If anything, I think your arguing is causing these people to come to the defense of Philly much more than they would have otherwise.  I wish you would stop criticizing Philly and start criticizing my team!


If nick says to stop doing something I ask you to just try your best to abide.  He could just quit on organizing this game for us if he wanted to. 

TP to you and TP to nick for a smooth remainder of this fun game

Meh, sarcasm is a form of humor.

All it is a big part of trash talking and banter.

I wont talk about anyones team anymore. thats the easiest thing to do.

[Roy H.]

The Current SA Spurs lineup

PG: Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Hedu
PF: Hakeem
C: Yao

Right now I am log, strong and have a special level of defense that is unmatched by any other team.

I do have a few tricks up my sleeve yet in the coming rounds so this may not be the final lineup.

Hakeem and Payton would be awesome on the same team.  Two of the best defenders ever. Depending on the year, Kobe was a really good defender, too.

I think the biggest problem is a talent deficit. I think your team looks a lot like a great NBA team.  It doesn’t look like a team designed to beat all-time teams in a 12 team league, in my opinion. I think Yao and Hedo are very borderline selections.

But, I have at least some idea of your future plans, which I like.

[nickagneta]

Let's all move on.

[Silky]

The Current SA Spurs lineup

PG: Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Hedu
PF: Hakeem
C: Yao

Right now I am log, strong and have a special level of defense that is unmatched by any other team.

I do have a few tricks up my sleeve yet in the coming rounds so this may not be the final lineup.

Hakeem and Payton would be awesome on the same team.  Two of the best defenders ever. Depending on the year, Kobe was a really good defender, too.

I think the biggest problem is a talent deficit. I think your team looks a lot like a great NBA team.  It doesn’t look like a team designed to beat all-time teams in a 12 team league, in my opinion. I think Yao and Hedo are very borderline selections.

But, I have at least some idea of your future plans, which I like.

Like I say, i was 3 hours away and couldnt remember my draft sheet.

I was thinking hedu in round 9 or 10 but its the only name i could remember. Lol.

I do think that that 1 season he was a beast. Legitimately.

20-5-5 on really strong clutch shootibg percentages is nothing to scoff at.

And off my bench he will be used well.

[action781]

That said, I'm with Silky in that I do think the Ewing love is a big higher than I'd expect, particularly for defense.  He was a 3x second-team all-defensive player ('88, '89, '92).

In '88, he got four votes for DPOY (tied for 5th place)
In '89, he got two votes for DPOY (6th place)
In '92 he didn't get a single vote for DPOY (while I happen to have three starters who received votes that year, heh)

Those were his only three all-defensive (second-team) seasons.  If I'm calling a spade a spade, then I'll say Ewing was a good defender.  Nothing more.  When we're looking at him in this game compared to all-time great defenders and their best defensive seasons?  He's a good defender, he can hold his own to some extent, but he's not an above average defender in this league.  He's clearly a rung below at least 7/12 centers -- Hakeem (if a C), Kareem, Russell, Walton, Mutumbo, Willis Reed, and David Robinson.  And is he definitely better than the others (Moses, Cowens, Shaq, Wilt) to take the claim of 8th best center in the league?  He's in that mix but I wouldn't say definitively the best of that bunch.

Oh and just for fun... 



EDIT: In being objective, I'm not positive Willis Reed is 100% clearly better defensively than Ewing so would have to drop him to the lower half (where he still might come out above Ewing though).

[Donoghus]

I don't see any issues with having Patrick Ewing as a starter in this exercise.  None.  He's an all-time great center who excelled on both ends of the court.  He's not in that Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem/etc.... stratosphere but he's not terribly far behind.   And you certainly don't need him playing any more than 12-15 feet from the rim with that lineup.

Given the teammates he's been surrounded with so far, he's not being asked to carry the team and he can more than hold his own at the center position against almost anyone else people are throwing out there.

[GreenFaith1819]

That said, I'm with Silky in that I do think the Ewing love is a big higher than I'd expect, particularly for defense.  He was a 3x second-team all-defensive player ('88, '89, '92).

In '88, he got four votes for DPOY (tied for 5th place)
In '89, he got two votes for DPOY (6th place)
In '92 he didn't get a single vote for DPOY (while I happen to have three starters who received votes that year, heh)

Those were his only three all-defensive (second-team) seasons.  If I'm calling a spade a spade, then I'll say Ewing was a good defender.  Nothing more.  When we're looking at him in this game compared to all-time great defenders and their best defensive seasons?  He's a good defender, he can hold his own to some extent, but he's not an above average defender in this league.  He's clearly a rung below at least 7/12 centers -- Hakeem (if a C), Kareem, Russell, Walton, Mutumbo, Willis Reed, and David Robinson.  And is he definitely better than the others (Moses, Cowens, Shaq, Wilt) to take the claim of 8th best center in the league?  He's in that mix but I wouldn't say definitively the best of that bunch.

Oh and just for fun... 

I'm interested in knowing your Center defensive ranking scale.

Many on here - including myself - would classify Pierce as being a good defender - even Elite at times as he got older - but he never got any Defensive Team votes.

If I'm not mistaken - every C you mentioned up there is AT LEAST 2nd team defensive.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

The Current SA Spurs lineup

PG: Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Hedu
PF: Hakeem
C: Yao

Right now I am log, strong and have a special level of defense that is unmatched by any other team.

I do have a few tricks up my sleeve yet in the coming rounds so this may not be the final lineup.

Pretty strong team, but I am with the few that says Hakeem shouldn't be at PF.

Yes, he can play there, but his best years, and his most successful, is at Center, and I agree that his effectiveness is being limited by not being played in that position.

Other than that, this is a talented, defensively capable team.