2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)

[gouki88]

If it wasn't for all the 3 pointers in today's league, Bill Russell would have been first on my draft board.

I am perturbed by the decreasing influence of the top defenders in the league today. They keep changing the rules to make it easier for offensive players and the now the big time offensive players have a much larger impact on the game than ever before over the big time defensive players.

I would have rated Bill Russell #1 because he is the ultimate teammate. A man who can influence the game without needing the ball. Who enables everyone around him to be their best self.

And in a fantasy league where every team is full of stars & superstars, that ability to influence games hugely without needing the ball is the most valuable asset in the game.

With (my expectations of) lowered defensive impact in today's 3 point heavy league, I still think Russell would be awesome but he is no longer the #1 choice on my draft board.

I am however very excited to see the team that is built around him. When that all comes together, I might look at it and feel I was dead wrong to drop Russell in my estimation.

The guy is a pure winner.

Bill is, in my book, without a doubt, the best rebounder and defender in this game. Being a guy who finds those two qualities to be essential to winning titles, Bill would be my pick after MJ, Kareem, Bird or Magic. And if the game had no three point shot, I agree with Who, Russell would be my #1 pick.

I was hoping to nab bill and hakeem.

No points in the paint would be scored against that duo

against normal teams sure, but against teams with the best players of all time, it just wouldn't happen.  I mean plenty of players scored on those players, Wilt for example scored at will against Bill (I know some of that was strategy, though I would maintain that was strategy because they couldn't stop Wilt anyway).  You stack the deck with teams that have a top 12 center and a top 12 power forward and I think that great defense is limited a lot.  It is for that reason I don't really love Bill in this thing given his general lack of offensive ability.  He is much higher up the list of all time greats on my list then he was on my draft board.  That said, he was so good defensively and on the glass, and there are so many great offensive players that will be on all of these teams, that I totally get why he was picked and when he was picked.

Yeah, I was more saying it in jest.

I definitely think alongside the right offensive dynamos (of which there are almost innumerable available) he can be a really good foundation. His will to win is by far the strongest we've seen

[Yoki_IsTheName]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

[Silky]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

It makes sense to me.

I wouldnt have thought it myself, but I get it completely.

[Moranis]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Can he though?  I think that is the question.  Even the year the Spurs beat the Heat, Lebron was pretty darn good in that series, shooting over 50% from 3 and 57% overall.  Now I know Kawhi was younger then and Lebron was clearly the best player in the world at the time, but I guess that is kind of the point.  Is Kawhi really going to shut down the all time greats to the point that he should have been selected that highly, I'm just not so sure.

But that is why these things are so much fun to do.  There are just so many different ways you can go.

[action781]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

I like Kobe where you got him and I like your pairing.  But I wouldn't push it and say he has "no real weakness, outside of his at times selfishness".  We all know that selfishness is absolutely his weakness.  It's like saying "Shaq has no real weakness, outside of free throw shooting".  It's ok to admit that a player has a weakness.  I mean, even Michael Scott has weaknesses:

[gouki88]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

[Roy H.]

Quite happy to wake up to having picked LB. He was the guy I wanted the most at #4, and trading down from #1 to get him plus quite a significant bump in from the 5th round to the 3rd round is a big win for me.

Having consecutive picks at the end of the 2nd/start of the 3rd round is also exciting.

Surprised that Kawhi and Kobe were picked, but I can definitely see why. Kobe's peak, although not my favourite style of play, was undoubtedly one of the most unstoppable offensive peaks we've seen. Might have been able to get similar production from a player or two who will be available later, but I get it. Kawhi just went on one of the best playoff runs in recent memory, so can't really fault that.

I debated long and hard on Kobe.

But his defense is what got me in the end.

In his prime, he was an absolute monster defensively, add that to 30ppg 7 and 6 and it seemed a simple choice. I dont expect an elite 2 way player with no real weaknesses outside of his, at times, selfishness is too good to pass up.

He is 95% of what you get with Jordan.
Killer instinct
Heart
Ability to play with other greats
Playmaking
Ballhandling
Shooting
Clutch
Rebounding

And after all that he is still my number 2 after Hakeem.

That shaq and kobe duo was league killer, and , imo, hakeem allows kobe to be even better as I see Hakeem as a better player than shaq.

That 2 man game I think will be lethal on both ends, but its the rest of the team thay is key to it all.

The flip side of that is that he’s a ball dominant guard who has an inefficient .482 eFG% and .329 3PT%.  Is that the guy you want taking shots when matched up against all-time greats?  Kobe might actually be the least efficient scorer you out on the floor.

[Celts Fan 508]

I just realized that our commish (Nickagenta) doesn’t have a team and is doing it out of pure love of basketball.  I think each team in this league and everyone that reads the posts needs to give himTP’s at the very least daily as this seems like a bunch of work.

[gouki88]

I just realized that our commish (Nickagenta) doesn’t have a team and is doing it out of pure love of basketball.  I think each team in this league and everyone that reads the posts needs to give himTP’s at the very least daily as this seems like a bunch of work.

Yeah, Nick is the man

[nickagneta]

I just realized that our commish (Nickagenta) doesn’t have a team and is doing it out of pure love of basketball.  I think each team in this league and everyone that reads the posts needs to give himTP’s at the very least daily as this seems like a bunch of work.

I would love to play, especially in this game, but I gave up commishing and playing a team at the same time years ago...for a couple reasons:

1. It's just way too much work doing both
2. I don't like the possibilities for conflict of interest that being both commissioner and owner can present.

Also, I probably won't play in one of these games unless Roy or Dons is the commissioner, and I know that isn't happening anytime soon, so, if I want to be involved, I may as well be commissioner.

Lastly, if anyone is going to commish a Historical Draft on this site, it will be me. As Roy said earlier.....this is my baby.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Can he though?  I think that is the question.  Even the year the Spurs beat the Heat, Lebron was pretty darn good in that series, shooting over 50% from 3 and 57% overall.  Now I know Kawhi was younger then and Lebron was clearly the best player in the world at the time, but I guess that is kind of the point.  Is Kawhi really going to shut down the all time greats to the point that he should have been selected that highly, I'm just not so sure.

He did have a quite an efficient series in that Finals, but the last three games of that series, he was a net negative, and it did give us that famous GIF of LeBron on the FT line, wincing once he saw Kawhi Leonard re-enter the floor. The one of the biggest narratives of his FMVP win that year was his defense against James. LeBron was still spectacular, but Kawhi made him work.

And that's BEFORE he won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards.

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

I'd like to think he'd have a good shot at making it hard for them, including Larry Legend. His size, length, athleticism, defensive instincts all makes up for an excellent defender who could, at the very least, certainly make them work harder.

[gouki88]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

I'd like to think he'd have a good shot at making it hard for them, including Larry Legend. His size, length, athleticism, defensive instincts all makes up for an excellent defender who could, at the very least, certainly make them work harder.

Haha, yeah, I'm just playing around. I was very high on Kawhi going into this season, and his post-season run cemented that. His only real questions are durability (but even some of that was due to simple rest, and not injury) and his play-making, which isn't even bad. I feel like because LeBron is such a weirdly good play-maker (matched IMO only by Larry when we're talking forwards) that Kawhi gets a bit of an unfair torching on his.

However, I think Kawhi is better at getting out of the way of other players than LBJ is (as we've seen him do for Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Lowry, Siakam, Ibaka, etc.), which is massive in this game. It might be a reach for some, but I like what he provides. Especially when you've got a pick in the first half of the 2nd round

[greenrunsdeep41]

First round analysis


Pick 1 - It was no surprise to see MJ go with the first pick. The consensus BOAT, the man averaged 37.1, 8, 8, 3.2 steals, and 1.6 blocks in a season. Thats silly. We can all agree we would have made this decision, given the opportunity.

Pick 2 - Lebron James - There are certainly some arguments that can be made to suggest that LBJ is not the second best player of all time. But, I believe, he is the only player other than Bill Russell to have played in 8 strait championships. In the modern era that demands respect. 31, 8, 8, 2, and 1 is as good as it gets. Though, in my opinion, the consistent defense has always been questionable.

Pick 3 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Kareem's six rings, season with 35, 17, 5.5, 1.7, and 4 are hard to argue with, as is his incredible longevity in an era in which it was common for elite players to max out at around 10 seasons. The all time bucket getter belongs in the top 5, without question.

Pick 4 - Larry Bird, I would've gone with him at any pick and felt good about it. I dont think I need to say anything more.

Pick 5 - Wilt Chamberlain - This is where I have my first big issue, and not just because I chose Bill, but mostly because Wilt played in Russells era and Russell ate his lunch. In an era that people suggest Russell's numbers are inflated due to poor competition, how can you suggest that Wilt chamberlain was better? That said, he is an all timer and deserves to be in this conversation, but I will stand by the fact that on no list does he belong above Bill Russell.

Pick 6 - Magic Johnson - It is hard to put Magic's career into context in just a few words. The man was dynamic and galvanizing. He played hard, with joy, was a creative genius, and was the impetus for the era of NBA basketball we are currently watching. Anywhere top 10, solid case for top 5, #6; great pick.

Pick 7 - Shaq - This is a tough one for me, as well. Shaq was a freakin monster, maybe the most unguardable player ever; certainly for the amount of time ive been around. But, is he more of a winner than Duncan? Russell? You could make the case, but I dont feel that he is a better "basketball player" than either. Though, I understand and respect the argument. With Duncan and Russell on the board, I dont love this pick - But I get it,.

Pick 8 - Kawhi Leonard - This is truly unfathomable to me. I read the justification outlining a defensive strategy and I agree with it. But, I feel like that argument was made out of necessity because it is the only scenario that is remotely plausible. With that said, Im a huge Kahwi fan and respect his game, I just cant place him among these other guys yet. Especially, with so many incredible guys still on the board. I mean, is he even the best player in the league right now? Its certainly debatable.

Pick 9 - Hakeem - Again, another center above Bill Russell seems like a stretch with Russell still on the board. Maybe this is beginning to come across as a defense of my own pick, that crit is reasonable, Hakeem was a great. A wizard with his feet and a defensive anchor. Solid pick at 9.

Pick 10 - Bill Russell - The GOAT, in my opinion. Sure, the argument exists that he may not translate to the current era but, as I stated earlier, you cannot objectively justify that POV.

Pick 11 - Kobe - Oh man, do I think Kobe is top 12 of all time? Reluctantly, I do. Im biased because of 2010 but the man was a killer, youve got to give him his credit. I think there are 4 guys on this list id rather have Kobe than. Solid pick.

Pick 12 - Tim Duncan - At 12 this is an absolute steal. Tim Duncan is a top 5 all time guy. He did everything right. Was a superstar, was fundamental, a great teammate, he won, he put up numbers, he evolved. A great way to cap out the first round, but I honestly think if you switch this pick with Chamberlain, this overall draft makes more sense. Maybe ill get killed for that, maybe I deserve to.

Either way, this is great. Cant wait for tomorrow!

Also, Im looking to move a few picks for another 2nd - If anyone is interested, PM me.

[nickagneta]

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Can he though?  I think that is the question.  Even the year the Spurs beat the Heat, Lebron was pretty darn good in that series, shooting over 50% from 3 and 57% overall.  Now I know Kawhi was younger then and Lebron was clearly the best player in the world at the time, but I guess that is kind of the point.  Is Kawhi really going to shut down the all time greats to the point that he should have been selected that highly, I'm just not so sure.

He did have a quite an efficient series in that Finals, but the last three games of that series, he was a net negative, and it did give us that famous GIF of LeBron on the FT line, wincing once he saw Kawhi Leonard re-enter the floor. The one of the biggest narratives of his FMVP win that year was his defense against James. LeBron was still spectacular, but Kawhi made him work.

And that's BEFORE he won back-to-back Defensive Player of the Year awards.

First round number of players chosen by position:

PG: 1(Magic)
SG: 2(MJ, Kobe)
SF: 3(LeBron, Bird, Kawhi)
PF: 1(Duncan)
C: 5(Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Russell)

This is kind of one reason why I drafted Kawhi as my #1 pick.

With all due respect to the five Centers drafted, and Tim Duncan, but I believe finding someone who can legitimately stand toe to toe against Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe Bryant and Larry Bird for me is a much more difficult task, especially where I'm picking, in my opinion, than finding a big who can compete.

Kawhi Leonard certainly fits that bill, AND I can rely on him as an excellent offensive option.

Well if that ain't sacrilege I don't know what is

I'd like to think he'd have a good shot at making it hard for them, including Larry Legend. His size, length, athleticism, defensive instincts all makes up for an excellent defender who could, at the very least, certainly make them work harder.

The guy that gave Larry the toughest time defensively was a guy that was a great athlete, had great length and wasn't that tall of a player. That player was more a SG than anything else, not a SF. So, it's not unheard of to think Kawhi could make things more difficult on Larry than that player did.

[Somebody]

Shaq is the other guy I had in a past CB Historical draft (Shaq and Magic). I was reluctant to take Wilt because he was so similar to Shaq. I had been thinking of something different.

Shaq is awesome. I am surprised he lasted so long. I expected him to be a top 4 pick along with Wilt, LeBron and MJ. I don't rate Shaq's whole career that highly or his prime but ... at his absolute peak?

I mean that 2000 season was so utterly dominant. Nobody could handle him that year. And his defensive engagement was far and away the best of his career as well.


Edit: Then I had Magic, Bird and Kareem rounding out the top 7 before the draft moved into a different tier.

Shaq's 2000 season provided more lift to a team than Wilt imo.