Author Topic: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(TIME TO REVEAL THE WINNER!!!)  (Read 280224 times)

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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #270 on: August 22, 2019, 11:39:19 PM »

Offline Somebody

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I think getting a guy like Wilt or Shaq means you need to have a great passing PG. Should be interesting to see who Who and GF take as a player that needs to feed the beast inside.
Why do you think that?

Neither guy played with great PGs. So they were not dependent on them for service. Or is it about involving your teammates? Making sure the offense is not too Shaq/Wilt centric?

I ask ... because I actually thought the opposite. That a great PG was less valuable because I didn't want the ball in his hands all the time.
Wilt yes, Shaq no.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #271 on: August 22, 2019, 11:43:54 PM »

Offline Somebody

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #272 on: August 22, 2019, 11:45:35 PM »

Offline gouki88

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #273 on: August 22, 2019, 11:47:53 PM »

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I think there is a value in guys who don't need the ball in their hands all of the time. That is something I like about Kawhi. He can get you 25-30 but he does it in a way that doesn't effect negatively anyone else.

He allows everyone else time on the ball to express their own talents and show what they can do. Plus, he has the shooting range to provide floor spacing to give them room to what they want to do.

He is not dribbling the air out of the ball. He is taking bad shots (stealing shots from teammates). He is not a ball stopper (taking too long to decide while defense loads up on him). He is not killing your floor spacing or clogging the lane when of the ball(like my guy Wilt).

He allows everyone around him to operate at their fullest capacity.

......

This may be a negative issue when you surround him with a bunch of role players who are more limited offensively but in a game like this where you are surrounded with the best whoever played - it is an asset.
His best season (aka this year) was actually a bit of the opposite-he was a black hole whenever he touched the ball and had a pretty high usage rate. Not the best pick, but if you use him as a pure scorer+spot up shooter as well as a defensive specialist I can see the logic.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #274 on: August 22, 2019, 11:49:19 PM »

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
I'll disclose it after the second round, I have a feeling that it'll likely give away who I want to select at #14 and #16 if I do so now. Also I hope the big man who'll be selected at #13 is not one of my binkies.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #275 on: August 22, 2019, 11:51:17 PM »

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I was baffled by the fact that Bill Russell was available.

How can anyone make the argument that he isn’t one of the top ten most valuable players ever? I get different era stuff, but you can’t legitimize that argument objectively. It’s pure craziness to me that Kobe Bryant and Kawhi Leonard were selected before him. Nuts.

Edit - looks like Kobe went 11th
Bill Russell is the steal of the first round alongside Shaq.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #276 on: August 22, 2019, 11:55:35 PM »

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If it wasn't for all the 3 pointers in today's league, Bill Russell would have been first on my draft board.

I am perturbed by the decreasing influence of the top defenders in the league today. They keep changing the rules to make it easier for offensive players and the now the big time offensive players have a much larger impact on the game than ever before over the big time defensive players.

I would have rated Bill Russell #1 because he is the ultimate teammate. A man who can influence the game without needing the ball. Who enables everyone around him to be their best self.

And in a fantasy league where every team is full of stars & superstars, that ability to influence games hugely without needing the ball is the most valuable asset in the game.

With (my expectations of) lowered defensive impact in today's 3 point heavy league, I still think Russell would be awesome but he is no longer the #1 choice on my draft board.

I am however very excited to see the team that is built around him. When that all comes together, I might look at it and feel I was dead wrong to drop Russell in my estimation.

The guy is a pure winner.
Russell is defensive royalty-imo no center has achieved his body of work when it comes to a high level combination of man and team defense.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #277 on: August 22, 2019, 11:57:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
I'll disclose it after the second round, I have a feeling that it'll likely give away who I want to select at #14 and #16 if I do so now. Also I hope the big man who'll be selected at #13 is not one of my binkies.
Ah right, gotcha. Interested to see your strategy
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #278 on: August 22, 2019, 11:59:27 PM »

Offline Somebody

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
I'll disclose it after the second round, I have a feeling that it'll likely give away who I want to select at #14 and #16 if I do so now. Also I hope the big man who'll be selected at #13 is not one of my binkies.
Ah right, gotcha. Interested to see your strategy
Hope you'll be pleasantly surprised! FWIW #5, #8 and #9 are still available on my draft board.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #279 on: August 23, 2019, 12:01:46 AM »

Offline gouki88

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
I'll disclose it after the second round, I have a feeling that it'll likely give away who I want to select at #14 and #16 if I do so now. Also I hope the big man who'll be selected at #13 is not one of my binkies.
Ah right, gotcha. Interested to see your strategy
Hope you'll be pleasantly surprised! FWIW #5, #8 and #9 are still available on my draft board.
Dang, that's pretty cool. I'm at the end of this round so I'm pretty unlikely to be able to steal any of them, lol
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Draft is open and underway)
« Reply #280 on: August 23, 2019, 12:13:11 AM »

Offline Somebody

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My clear top 11 guys all off the board where I then had a dropoff to #12 and had no idea who'd get taken.  So aside from Kawhi slipping in there, not many surprises to me in round 1 today.
I had 10 of the 12 going in first round. Kawhi (mid to late second) and Kobe (early second). I am surprised about the two who I thought would be firsts but were not. I am looking forward to seeing where they go tomorrow.

I was back and forth for a little while on Kobe and Duncan.

I was thinking hard about twin towers.

But then I looked past my hatred of the Lakers and looked at the numbers, firmly put Kobe in the top 10 alltime (playing in this era)

If you went Hakeem and Duncan you would have beat any other front court out there and both are great teammates.  I would not have taken Kobe as I don’t want to have that style of play, but that’s me.
Yeah not really, I would punish that team a ton when it comes to giving them a rating.
On what basis?

I get that it would probably be cramped on offence inside, but if you surrounded those two with shooters who can defend the perimeter it would be a really really hard team to stop.
I'll disclose it after the second round, I have a feeling that it'll likely give away who I want to select at #14 and #16 if I do so now. Also I hope the big man who'll be selected at #13 is not one of my binkies.
Ah right, gotcha. Interested to see your strategy
Hope you'll be pleasantly surprised! FWIW #5, #8 and #9 are still available on my draft board.
Dang, that's pretty cool. I'm at the end of this round so I'm pretty unlikely to be able to steal any of them, lol
Hope so lol, I'd be ecstatic if I got 2 out of the 3 left in the top 10 of my draft board.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #281 on: August 23, 2019, 02:27:09 AM »

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Thoughts on the first round:
Overall a very good draft for me lol, three players in the top 10 of my draft board have slid to the second round. Anyways on to the picks.

1. The correct pick imo. I feel that people don’t truly appreciate Jordan’s statistical profile during his peak: he combined top of the line scoring volume with elite efficiency and good shot selection as well as great distribution. His defense was strong as well, giving him the highest peak for any NBA player imo.

2. Good pick. LeBron actually wasn’t 2nd on my draft board but he was virtually tied with that player in my mind when it came to peak seasons in these drafts, with an unmatched floor raising skillset plus elite shooting in his 2013 season. Only concern is his ball dominance and inability to coexist with superstar big men.

3. Good pick. I underrated Jabbar in my draft board by 2 to 3 slots-his offensive efficiency was transcendent and he was only a rung below the true shutdown artists in NBA history on defense. Only concern would be which season would he be selected by-some of his best statistical seasons were not his peak “lift” season due to stats being inflated by expansion.

4. Slight reach. Bird has a top 5 offensive peak but it didn’t match with his best defensive seasons in 80-84. Not sure if all time offense and above average defense (not elite or great) equals top 4.

5. Reach-Wilt’s floor raising (even in his peak 67 season) isn’t good enough to justify picking him at #5 with his lack of scalability imo.

6. Reach. Magic’s offense was incredible-he led one of the greatest offensive dynasties (even better than Bird’s Celtics) if not the greatest in his prime. However, his ball dominance and only average defense doesn’t endear me to the idea of picking him at #6.

7. Steal of the first round. Shaq was the pick I wish Who made after reading his reasoning (no offense), his 2000 season was almost the complete package for a big man-high usage scorer with unparalleled efficiency for his volume who could also scale on good teams due to his passing and ability to finish off of great passes from good offensive teammates. His defense that season was great too as it was near peak Kareem’s level.

8. Um reach to say it politely. Kawhi’s a bit of a black hole on offense, he’s at best an average passer who can’t punish double teams effectively, which puts a cap on his good isolation offense. Don’t think his elite defense helps make up for it-the best players in my draft board for the first round are either great two way guys who can also create for their teammates at a high level, or are so utterly dominant on one side of the court that their deficiencies on the other end of the court are covered up.

9. Hakeem Olajuwon. Great pick, he slid a couple of slots compared to my draft board. One of the best floor raisers due to his inelastic offense, but requires a very specific team build to unlock it. Defensively elite, belongs in the “shutdown artist” category by virtue of him anchoring great defences despite of his mediocre teammates.

10. The other steal of the first round. Bill Russell was defensive royalty unmatched by any defensive specialist in history-look at how he vaporised the Hall of Fame centers of his era in head to head matchups:
He was also the greatest team defender as well, leading team defenses that are still the best in league history after 50 plus years in terms of relative defensive rating, despite the false narrative that he was carried by offensive stars. He had a mind unlike any other center in NBA history-he was an advanced analytics savant during the Eisenhower, Kennedy and Johnson presidencies, as seen by him correctly deducing that his Celtics would massively benefit if Wilt scored a lot against them but was forced to eat up a lot of extra possessions by doing so. All in all, a dominant player who had an onslaught of MVP seasons with his defense alone, as well as his finishing and passing being incredibly portable and additive skills to ANY team offense.

11. Reach. Kobe’s peak is a tad overrated, his offensive stats (both traditional and advanced) rank below the all time greats due to his propensity to take tough low efficiency shots. His peak was also limited by his overrated defensive value-people get hung up on his great Frobe defense when it was merely solid in his peak years. Overall a decent pick, but I’m not too high on it.

12. Surpisingly went where I rated him in my draft board. Duncan was the anchor to the best defensive dynasty after the 60s with his rim protection and ability to switch seamlessly in his prime, and had a strong offensive game that can score and create for his teammates. His lack of an elite shooting and passing game may limit him in an all time draft where he may need to take a backseat to someone else on offense though.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 04:13:23 AM by Somebody »
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #282 on: August 23, 2019, 04:14:52 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Btw what time in EST will the draft be held on 22nd August? I'll try to be present as long as it's not over 2 AM in the morning for me lol.
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Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #283 on: August 23, 2019, 04:19:44 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Btw what time in EST will the draft be held on 22nd August? I'll try to be present as long as it's not over 2 AM in the morning for me lol.
Think all the pick times are listed in the original post
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: 2019 Historical Draft Thread(Round 1 over)
« Reply #284 on: August 23, 2019, 04:53:27 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Btw what time in EST will the draft be held on 22nd August? I'll try to be present as long as it's not over 2 AM in the morning for me lol.
Think all the pick times are listed in the original post
Just saw, I think I'll be available to make my pick ;D
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