Woj: Brooklyn trades Crabbe and two 1sts to Atlanta for Prince and a 2nd

[TheSundanceKid]

At this point, i am really excited with going with our youth, BUT i don’t want rozier back.

im fine with this take as long as people accept that we wouldn't have gotten out of the 1st round in 2018 had it not been for Rozier.  Rozier played like a borderline star and we barely beat a 45 win team in 7 games as a result.

If Kyrie leaves, Rozier will be on the team. People are gonna need to make peace with that

That may or may not be true.  Take a step back and look at the big picture.  The team won 49 games last year and was bounced in the second round.  If we had a pass first point guard (someone like Rondo) would the results have been better, worse or the same?  I am guessing that it would not have been worse.  I would like to do nothing but add a pass-first point guard and a big and see how far this team can go with the young guys and an improved Hayward.

I think it would have done worse with someone like Rondo at point guard. That's just the way the system with Brad works. Our bigs do a lot of playmaking and the guards create a lot from driving off the PnR and dribble hand offs. I love Rondo (my fav player) but he isn't a good fit for this team.

We need a scoring guard who can make good decisions when penetrating the paint. Someone like Kyle Lowry would be perfect. When engaged, Rozier is a good 3 point shooter, particularly in the corners, and attacks of picks. He's not the long term answer but he's definitely not leaving for nothing.

In a world where Kyrie leaves it is very had to imagine us competing next year, so I don't imagine us making signings that head down that path. I expect us to retain assets and look to align with the Jays timeline. I'm thinking things like Horford for Capela, re-signing Rozier and using him in a trade mid season or next summer. Maintaining our asset base to cash in on another want away star in the future, same as we were doing before getting Kyrie. Our asset base is just as strong as it was then, I see no reason to do anything rash

[gouki88]

Draft a pg with potential to replace Smart as a starter by next season(alexander walker at 14)

Draft a young floor spacing athletic bigman(samanic at 20)

Draft a defense firzt wing to pair off bench with Hayward and the pg (thybulle or Okpala at 22)

Use full MLE on a bigman (bryant, deadmon, whiteside if he opts out?)

Lle on Vince Carter- solid depth and he can coach brown/tatum and Rookie

Smart/NAW/Wannamaker
Brown/Vince/draft
Tatum/Hayward/Semi
Horford/Samanic/Yabuselle
MLE signing/Baynes/Williams.

Shop Horf and Hayward through season if offer is big enough.

Future team of

NAW
Brown
Tatum
Samanic
Williams.

Defense, scoring, shooting, driving, passing. Lineup has everythibg including youth

Great if you’re gunning for lottery next year.

Dear lord that team is awful!

Lineup has everything except the prospect of winning 30+ games

No it isnt.

Smart/NAW Wannamaker
Brown/Vince/Draft
Tatum/Hayward/Semi
horford/Samanic/Yabuselle
Baynes/MLE Center/Williams

That is the last 2 years teams, with an improved Smart at the PG spot, and some nice better balanced depth/youth.

This is not a lotto team, where are you getting that from.

I assume you read what I posted as a "FUTURE TEAM" of NAW/Brown/Tatum/Samanic/Williams

Except for the fact that Kyrie Irving has played 127 regular season games for the Boston Celtics over the last 2 seasons...

It might overachieve because Brad seems to work wonders with underachievers, but your idea of shopping Horford and Hayward is terrible for us. If Horford senses that why wouldn't he just opt out and leave?

I clearly stated if the offers are good enough.

And he could opt out and leave, but I do not think that he will do that.

What's a good offer in your mind?

[td450]

I hate the idea of Rozier coming back too. You can either believe he is what he was in the playoffs last year, or what he's been the balance of his career. Even if you take the optimistic view, he's just OK.

I think the guy to steal here is Spencer Dinwiddie. If they go for Kyrie and another big signing, Brooklyn might want the extra salary (he's got an extension pending at 3yrs/$34M). He's 6'6, a decent passer and defender and he scored 16.8 ppg in 28 mpg last year.

He's better at almost everything than Rozier. Having Dinwiddie, Brown and Tatum out there would make us very, very long on the wings.

[Silky]

Draft a pg with potential to replace Smart as a starter by next season(alexander walker at 14)

Draft a young floor spacing athletic bigman(samanic at 20)

Draft a defense firzt wing to pair off bench with Hayward and the pg (thybulle or Okpala at 22)

Use full MLE on a bigman (bryant, deadmon, whiteside if he opts out?)

Lle on Vince Carter- solid depth and he can coach brown/tatum and Rookie

Smart/NAW/Wannamaker
Brown/Vince/draft
Tatum/Hayward/Semi
Horford/Samanic/Yabuselle
MLE signing/Baynes/Williams.

Shop Horf and Hayward through season if offer is big enough.

Future team of

NAW
Brown
Tatum
Samanic
Williams.

Defense, scoring, shooting, driving, passing. Lineup has everythibg including youth

Great if you’re gunning for lottery next year.

Dear lord that team is awful!

Lineup has everything except the prospect of winning 30+ games

No it isnt.

Smart/NAW Wannamaker
Brown/Vince/Draft
Tatum/Hayward/Semi
horford/Samanic/Yabuselle
Baynes/MLE Center/Williams

That is the last 2 years teams, with an improved Smart at the PG spot, and some nice better balanced depth/youth.

This is not a lotto team, where are you getting that from.

I assume you read what I posted as a "FUTURE TEAM" of NAW/Brown/Tatum/Samanic/Williams

Except for the fact that Kyrie Irving has played 127 regular season games for the Boston Celtics over the last 2 seasons...

It might overachieve because Brad seems to work wonders with underachievers, but your idea of shopping Horford and Hayward is terrible for us. If Horford senses that why wouldn't he just opt out and leave?

I clearly stated if the offers are good enough.

And he could opt out and leave, but I do not think that he will do that.

What's a good offer in your mind?

I dont know, depends on what the team needed, if capspace or picks were involved, etc.

[Moranis]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

Yeah, that is some complete, grade-A bologna, Moranis lol

Quantity of talent =/= quality of talent. Not counting Russell, because it makes no sense to pair him and Kyrie and that isn’t happening, the overall talent level may be close to equal due to Brooklyn having more overall younger guys, but the top-end talent is dominated by Boston.

Tatum and Brown are clearly the best of that bunch while also being the youngest and not even near their prime, and to be honest it’s not even that close. Top-end talent wins in this league, and just because a team has a similar cumulative amount of talent does not mean they’re in the same boat as a team with top-end talent (see Celtics from 2015 - 2017).

And all that is not even considering the fact that we have two former All-Stars in Horford abd Hayward, significant draft capital, and the best chance at AD moving forward.

So, no, to any logically thinking person those situations are not anywhere close together. Granted, Kyrie has not always been the most logical person, so...

Brooklyn absolutely thinks Russell and Irving can play together.  They might not be able to, but they absolutely believe that.  And if you include Russell in the calculus that adds a great deal to the overall talent to the Nets.

Tatum clearly has the highest ceiling (even higher than Russell, but Russell is currently better), but I wouldn't be on Brown being better than Allen.  Allen looks like he could be a pretty darn good 2 way big man (and big guys are still more valuable than wings, in part because they are rarer).  And LeVert looked like a scoring machine before his injury.  Maybe he never recovers as he clearly wasn't the same at the end of the year, but there is clear talent from LeVert.  Guys like Dinwiddie, Harris, Prince, etc. don't project as great players, but they are certainly rotation level players on the same talent sphere as guys like Rozier, Morris, Baynes, etc.

The reality is, the Nets talent is being greatly undersold here.  They have a lot of young talent on that team. 

[Moranis]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

7 games is a real lot. We won 8 less than the warriors lol.

Yes, 7 games is a lot, but one team has Irving and one team does not.  Switch him and what happens.  Take Irving off the Celtics, do they win 42 games this year?  Put Irving on the Nets, how many games more than 42 do they win?

[CptZoogs]

Well, if it’s Irving and Durant to Brooklyn, I get it and can see him moving there, though that’s clearly still not the best team in the East. I think they’re still behind both Toronto and Milwaukee and right there in that grouping with Philly, Boston, and Indiana, though likely the best of that group dependent upon what everyone else does.

Otherwise, what would make Brooklyn more desirable than Boston? Outside of him being spiteful at Boston and Brooklyn being a bigger market, it makes no sense for him to go there if he’s wanting to win.

And that’s why I’ll be fine moving on from Kyrie if he goes to one of the NYK teams by himself. All of his talk about staying here, wanting his name in the rafters, blah, blah, blah, will all prove to be just hollow talk, demonstrating that his head isn’t in the right place to begin with and he’s not the one to lead us to banner 18.

The Nets won 7 less games than Boston this year and that is with LeVert playing only 40 games.  Before his injury LeVert liked a real monster in the making.  Russell came into his own this year.  Allen looks like a real star in the making down low.  RHJ is 24, Dinwiddie just turned 26, and Harris is only 27.  They just added Prince who is 25.  There is a lot of young talent on that team.  More than Boston (though Tatum certainly has the highest ceiling, he isn't currently as good as Russell is right now).  Boston obviously has Horford and Hayward, but Hayward isn't back yet and may never be and Horford is getting old.  In other words, Irving might believe that the Nets are set up to win far longer than Boston is and he might not be wrong.

7 games is a real lot. We won 8 less than the warriors lol.

Yes, 7 games is a lot, but one team has Irving and one team does not.  Switch him and what happens.  Take Irving off the Celtics, do they win 42 games this year?  Put Irving on the Nets, how many games more than 42 do they win?

I am not a Kryie hater, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that the answer here is in the negatives.  As we have learned this year, team chemistry is a real factor that is difficult to predict.  I don't know how well and Irving/Russel backcourt would work out. 

[NKY fan]

I wonder if Brooklyn are confident that Kyrie is signing with them and then have a bigger trade lined up.
I didn’t see the point to clear crabbes contract yet and the price they paid for him if they don’t have something else lined up. Only other instance of a team being that eager to clear cap space before the draft was Cleveland before Lebron went back there. Danny took advantage of it that time.

The way I see it : they have $46m of space >> use 32 on Kyrie while keeping some of their free agents cap holds like Ed Davis RHJ and most importantly Russel. >> Once Kyrie signs trade for Lebron using dinwiddie , Harris and Davis and RHJ. >> resign russel
This scenario is just as scary as is the scenario in which they sign Durant ..

[gouki88]

I wonder if Brooklyn are confident that Kyrie is signing with them and then have a bigger trade lined up.
I didn’t see the point to clear crabbes contract yet and the price they paid for him if they don’t have something else lined up. Only other instance of a team being that eager to clear cap space before the draft was Cleveland before Lebron went back there. Danny took advantage of it that time.

The way I see it : they have $46m of space >> use 32 on Kyrie while keeping some of their free agents cap holds like Ed Davis RHJ and most importantly Russel. >> Once Kyrie signs trade for Lebron using dinwiddie , Harris and Davis and RHJ. >> resign russel
This scenario is just as scary as is the scenario in which they sign Durant ..

That is a really terrible offer for LeBron though. If LA trade him (which they have shown no intention of wanting to do) they could get much better offers.

[NKY fan]

I wonder if Brooklyn are confident that Kyrie is signing with them and then have a bigger trade lined up.
I didn’t see the point to clear crabbes contract yet and the price they paid for him if they don’t have something else lined up. Only other instance of a team being that eager to clear cap space before the draft was Cleveland before Lebron went back there. Danny took advantage of it that time.

The way I see it : they have $46m of space >> use 32 on Kyrie while keeping some of their free agents cap holds like Ed Davis RHJ and most importantly Russel. >> Once Kyrie signs trade for Lebron using dinwiddie , Harris and Davis and RHJ. >> resign russel
This scenario is just as scary as is the scenario in which they sign Durant ..

That is a really terrible offer for LeBron though. If LA trade him (which they have shown no intention of wanting to do) they could get much better offers.

The lakers can do better but if Lebron forces his way to the nets .... it’s not a bad offer. Harris and dinwiddie are young and on great value contracts. Davis is ex laker and they liked him too. RHJ is a filler.
It’s not a very probable scenario but there were rumors that Lebron May want out of the lakers dysfunctional organization.
One unwritten rule in the NBA managment is if a player comes to you for free like Lebron did ( like Hayward and Horford did to the Celtics)
You don’t shop them around and see if you can send him to a crappy team that’s overpaying and not the team that the said player wants to go to.
In other words: you get an “asset for free” but don’t get to monetarize it because it’s a bad faith business practice and agents and their agents won’t do business with you in the future.

[Birdman]

Atlanta is setting up to be a goood team in future..got 8th, 10th, and 17th pick..Young and Collins are looking good

[nickagneta]

Atlanta is setting up to be a goood team in future..got 8th, 10th, and 17th pick..Young and Collins are looking good

I think on any pick this year you add 10 spots to the pick #, that's the number this year's pick would be during a decent draft because this draft is so bad.

So in a normal to slightly better draft, Atlanta's picks are more like picks 18, 20 and 27. Kinda gives you a different perspective of the type of youth they would be adding to Collins and Young.

This is why I hope Danny trades the picks this year. Using the same idea, Boston's picks are more like 24, 30 and 32 in a normal to slightly better draft.

[boscel33]

So that means Kyrie is gone?

i think kyrie is already gone.  i think it's time to move on from that show and start the jt/jb show just like gsw did with kt/sc.  if ki walks and we can renegotiate horford maybe down to 4@15, which gives him an additional 30, we should have some cap space. 

[Monkhouse]

I wonder if Brooklyn are confident that Kyrie is signing with them and then have a bigger trade lined up.
I didn’t see the point to clear crabbes contract yet and the price they paid for him if they don’t have something else lined up. Only other instance of a team being that eager to clear cap space before the draft was Cleveland before Lebron went back there. Danny took advantage of it that time.

The way I see it : they have $46m of space >> use 32 on Kyrie while keeping some of their free agents cap holds like Ed Davis RHJ and most importantly Russel. >> Once Kyrie signs trade for Lebron using dinwiddie , Harris and Davis and RHJ. >> resign russel
This scenario is just as scary as is the scenario in which they sign Durant ..

That is a really terrible offer for LeBron though. If LA trade him (which they have shown no intention of wanting to do) they could get much better offers.

The lakers can do better but if Lebron forces his way to the nets .... it’s not a bad offer. Harris and dinwiddie are young and on great value contracts. Davis is ex laker and they liked him too. RHJ is a filler.
It’s not a very probable scenario but there were rumors that Lebron May want out of the lakers dysfunctional organization.
One unwritten rule in the NBA managment is if a player comes to you for free like Lebron did ( like Hayward and Horford did to the Celtics)
You don’t shop them around and see if you can send him to a crappy team that’s overpaying and not the team that the said player wants to go to.
In other words: you get an “asset for free” but don’t get to monetarize it because it’s a bad faith business practice and agents and their agents won’t do business with you in the future.

No matter what LeBron does, he cannot force a trade, especially with how dysfunctional the Lakers front office has been..

They are going to at least ask for something more than Dimwiddie/Harris. And most teams will presumably give up that for LeBron.

At worst, he's still 20/6/6 kind of guy.

[nickagneta]

So that means Kyrie is gone?

i think kyrie is already gone.  i think it's time to move on from that show and start the jt/jb show just like gsw did with kt/sc.  if ki walks and we can renegotiate horford maybe down to 4@15, which gives him an additional 30, we should have some cap space.

It actually doesn't open up as much as you would think. Losing Kyrie and renegotiating Horford to $15 million a year, even if you renounce Morris, Theis, Rozier and Wanamaker still only results in cap space of around $14 million. Gotta remember the cap holds for the draft picks.

I think a renegotiated Horford contract will happen but I doubt his first year of his contract drops to less than $18-20 million. My hope is it starts around $20 million and decreases over the length of the contract.

If Horford's contract starts around $20 million, it's smarter to not renounce Rozier, Morris, Theis and Wanamaker because you might bring someone back and just be over the cap and have the MLE at $9.2 million and the BLE at $5.7 million than renouncing everyone and have $10 million in cap space and the Room Exception at $4.7 million.