LeBron doesn't want to change his game because it would make him "a roleplayer"

[GreenEnvy]

  Ok, go with the post season. Cleveland has a trip to the finals, another trip to the ECF and two trips to the 2nd round. How many teams do you think can top that in the same time frame? 8 or 9? Or (hmm) the same 2-3 teams? Can you define success in any way that more than 3 teams have been more successful than the Cavs in the last 3-4 years?

I'd say in the last 4 seasons the Lakers and Celtics have both been far more successful (obviously), but also the Spurs and Magic.

Both the Spurs and Magic have been to the Finals, lost in the Conference Finals, Semi's and First Round. And they both sent home the Cavs to boot.


The Cavs were good, but hardly a successful team considering they had the MVP and were routinely picked (the last two seasons) to win the championship.

Would you consider Phoenix and/or Dallas successful?

[Fafnir]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

Since when is Steve Nash just a regular season success?

He's been to the playoffs 11 times, 9 times as a rotation player or starter.

He's been to the conference finals four times, and the second round 3 more times. He's only been bounced in the first round twice as a rotation player (and twice as a bench guy his first two years in Phoenix as a young player)

[MBunge]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

Since when is Steve Nash just a regular season success?

He's been to the playoffs 11 times, 9 times as a rotation player or starter.

He's been to the conference finals four times, and the second round 3 more times. He's only been bounced in the first round twice as a rotation player (and twice as a bench guy his first two years in Phoenix as a young player)

Yes, and I'm sure Steve Nash enjoys wearing all his championship rings from winning 1st and 2nd round playoff series.

Mike

[Fafnir]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

Since when is Steve Nash just a regular season success?

He's been to the playoffs 11 times, 9 times as a rotation player or starter.

He's been to the conference finals four times, and the second round 3 more times. He's only been bounced in the first round twice as a rotation player (and twice as a bench guy his first two years in Phoenix as a young player)

Yes, and I'm sure Steve Nash enjoys wearing all his championship rings from winning 1st and 2nd round playoff series.

Mike

Is your only measure of success titles?

You're the one who implied that Steve Nash has only had success in the regular season. That is clearly false. This isn't Tracy McGrady we're talking about here.

[Fafnir]

  Ok, go with the post season. Cleveland has a trip to the finals, another trip to the ECF and two trips to the 2nd round. How many teams do you think can top that in the same time frame? 8 or 9? Or (hmm) the same 2-3 teams? Can you define success in any way that more than 3 teams have been more successful than the Cavs in the last 3-4 years?

I'd say in the last 4 seasons the Lakers and Celtics have both been far more successful (obviously), but also the Spurs and Magic.

Both the Spurs and Magic have been to the Finals, lost in the Conference Finals, Semi's and First Round. And they both sent home the Cavs to boot.


The Cavs were good, but hardly a successful team considering they had the MVP and were routinely picked (the last two seasons) to win the championship.

Would you consider Phoenix and/or Dallas successful?

The Spurs, Lakers, and Celtics have been more succesful. But the Magic? Only if you ignore the the year the Cavs went to the Finals. It gets worse if you go back another year.

                          Cavs          Magic
2009-2010      2nd Round     ECF
2008-2009      ECF           Finals
2007-2008      2nd Round     2nd Round
2006-2007      Finals        First Round
2005-2006      2nd Round     Lottery

[Finkelskyhook]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

Since when is Steve Nash just a regular season success?

He's been to the playoffs 11 times, 9 times as a rotation player or starter.

He's been to the conference finals four times, and the second round 3 more times. He's only been bounced in the first round twice as a rotation player (and twice as a bench guy his first two years in Phoenix as a young player)

Yes, and I'm sure Steve Nash enjoys wearing all his championship rings from winning 1st and 2nd round playoff series.
Mike

Nash is another of my favorites right along with the messiah.  Nash would make Dan Dickau look like Rajon Rondo defensively.

It's not a wonder he's been the same sterling success as the messiah is playoff wise.  (for different reasons)  Brilliant offense.  No defense.

[2short]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

Since when is Steve Nash just a regular season success?

He's been to the playoffs 11 times, 9 times as a rotation player or starter.

He's been to the conference finals four times, and the second round 3 more times. He's only been bounced in the first round twice as a rotation player (and twice as a bench guy his first two years in Phoenix as a young player)

Yes, and I'm sure Steve Nash enjoys wearing all his championship rings from winning 1st and 2nd round playoff series.
Mike

Nash is another of my favorites right along with the messiah.  Nash would make Dan Dickau look like Rajon Rondo defensively.

It's not a wonder he's been the same sterling success as the messiah is playoff wise.  (for different reasons)  Brilliant offense.  No defense.

agree on the defense
BUT Nash breaks nose, straightens it himself and plays hard
lebron knows his team is going to lose and gives up

[BballTim]

How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.    

It depends on how you define success.  If it's about great regular seasons...I'd say the messiah has been wildly successful.

  Ok, go with the post season. Cleveland has a trip to the finals, another trip to the ECF and two trips to the 2nd round. How many teams do you think can top that in the same time frame? 8 or 9? Or (hmm) the same 2-3 teams? Can you define success in any way that more than 3 teams have been more successful than the Cavs in the last 3-4 years?

I'll bet you thought Iverson never had a supporting cast either.

  

An all-time great in Shaq who is still performing at a high level with us.  An all star center in Big Z.  An all star in Jamison. An all star PG in Williams.  One of the best role players in the NBA in Varajao.  A coach of the year.  An attrocious supporting cast to be sure.

  Haha. That sounds great, unless the person reading it has any familiarity with the nba. None of those "all stars" were, in fact all stars last year. And it wasn't a fluke. We're looking at a 27 year old one-time all star and two players in their mid-30s that have made 2 all-star games each. And, as it turns out, that all-time great is at least 3-4 years from being anything close to great. Oh, and did I mention that two of the players are both centers and neither of them are capable of playing more than 24 minutes a game?

  Sounds a little iffy if you say it like I did.

Really?  Doesn't sound iffy to me.

Again, I'd have to point out the poster-child illustration...Shaq.  One team recognizes what he has left.  The messiah didn't.

  Shaq does great with an elite point guard and three other good offensive players, not so great when he's the 2nd option. This is LeBron's fault?

[BballTim]

  How many teams have been more successful than the Cavs the last 3-4 season? 2? 3? It worked pretty well, and that's with an iffy supporting cast.

Again, Steve Nash appreciates your praise for his regular season exploits.

And again, the fact that the Cavs could end up being a .500 team without LeBron or any really good replacement for him proves they weren't all that "iffy" a supporting cast after all.

Stop making excuses for LeBron by implying his failure in Cleveland was the fault of everybody except him.

Mike

  Do you stop watching basketball when the regular season ends? Let me try and make this plainer. How many teams have won more PLAYOFF series than LeBron's teams over the last 4 years?

[BballTim]

  Ok, go with the post season. Cleveland has a trip to the finals, another trip to the ECF and two trips to the 2nd round. How many teams do you think can top that in the same time frame? 8 or 9? Or (hmm) the same 2-3 teams? Can you define success in any way that more than 3 teams have been more successful than the Cavs in the last 3-4 years?

I'd say in the last 4 seasons the Lakers and Celtics have both been far more successful (obviously), but also the Spurs and Magic.

Both the Spurs and Magic have been to the Finals, lost in the Conference Finals, Semi's and First Round. And they both sent home the Cavs to boot.


The Cavs were good, but hardly a successful team considering they had the MVP and were routinely picked (the last two seasons) to win the championship.

Would you consider Phoenix and/or Dallas successful?

  So teams that were less successful than the Cavs were really more successful than the Cavs because of lower expectations? And, in your opinion, were Phoenix and Dallas more successful than the Cavs over the last 4 years? I wouldn't say so.

[More Banners]

I think the case that Lebron had a decent supporting cast is legit.  They may not have been all-stars after going to CLE, but next to Lebron in Mike Brown's system, that was guaranteed due to the no-motion, one-option offense.

The thing is, he didn't make the guys around him look any better.  Despite those winning seasons, no Cavs player I know of was a desired free agent anywhere. 

He didn't make anyone look good but himself.

And when it came time when he couldn't win by himself, he wondered why the team didn't play better...well, of course they didn't.  A roster can't stand around and watch Lebron from October to April, and then suddenly run an option-offense that incorporates other guys, especially if Lebron has the ball all the time.

The Cavs might have fared better with a different coach, but...

...they still would have run into the 2006 Heat, 2008 Celtics, and Lakers of the past couple of years.  There was just no chance for the Cavs to really win it all.  It wasn't his time.