Final Straw for Sheed

[PosImpos]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

How many of the above players were available to the Celtics last summer? Should the Celtics have resigned Mikki Moore?

Even then I'd take Sheed over half the above mentioned players (for this years playoff run).

I dont give a crap about Hollinger and his PER. I judge players by watching them play. Sheed in the post in the playoffs is going to be a heck of a weapon.

At least a few of those players were available or could have been made available through pretty simple trades.  We're not talking about big names, here.  There's a reason all of those guys are making less than Sheed is.  

As Nick so astutely explained, we absolutely could have had one of them and gotten more production.  For example, we could have signed Channing Frye (who actually would have spread the floor), or Hakim Warrick (who would have given us some badly needed athleticism and speed), or we could have traded for Tyrus Thomas at the deadline (likely a lot more useful for us than Nate Robinson has been).

All Rasheed gives us over those players is experience and (supposedly) his ability to spread the floor.  Honestly, I'd rather have a player who makes 0% of his threes and takes practically none than a guy who makes 25% and takes a fair amount.  The experience part is pretty overrated, especially since we have more than enough of that on the roster already.  

I don't recall there being a reasonable Tyrus Thomas deal out there for Boston to pounce on (Charlotte trumped Boston with a better draft pick). I honestly don't think Andersen wanted to leave Denver. Same for Hill in Phoenix.

A lot of guys were restricted (Warrick, Frye, etc.) The C's offer would have been matched. Who would the Celtics have traded? I recall the market was very underwhelming for Davis.

The Celtics really didn't have great options for trades or free agents from everything I read. Sheed is far from perfect, but he sure as heck looked like the best option the C's had last summer (and i still think he was).

I still believe the Celtics could have swung a trade for Thomas if they really wanted to (taking on Salmon's contract, for example - which clearly wouldn't have been a bad move).

Frye and Warrick were restricted but both went to different teams (for much less money than Rasheed), so obviously they could have been had.

[Mr October]

Rasheed is shooting less three point shots over the last 30 games or so than he was previously.

But he's still chucking the ball. Sorry, shoot 28% from three point range and you are chucking it. I don't care if you are shooting 4 three point shots per game or 2.5. If you can't make at least 1 out of 3 three point shots in a game on a regular basis, you are chucking it and your butt should be in the low post and not around the three point line.

And my point is that he was brought in and was expected to play much better than he has, game in and game out. The Celtics aren't paying him to perform his best only the playoffs. They are paying him to play his best, give his best effort and be a difference maker all year. And he hasn't.

As for what they should have done last year. Drew Gooden has played better, rebounded the ball much better, was signed for less years and less money. Zaza Pachulia in 20 minutes per night would definitely b a better option, IMO. Juwan Howard has given Portland extremely similar numbers that Rasheed has given Boston and yet he cost Portland a vet minimum contract.

Then there's always the argument that they could have signed someone like Etan Thomas or Rasho Nesterovic as their backup center and then spent the MLE on a wing player sixth man like Grant Hill or Danhtay Jones. There's always the possibility of trying to sign and trade Baby. Just because we wouldn't have signed Rasheed doesn't mean that there wasn't other options available that would have made the overall team better.

TP. Thanks for answering my questions. I think you've been against Sheed from the get go, and thats cool. (I was all for him, obviously.) We don't need to agree on everything.

Here's to hoping for a great post season run!!

Go Celtics!

Personally, I was ecstatic when we signed Sheed; I thought he was exactly what the team needed.  Many experts picked him to be a contender for sixth man of the year, and most people really thought the Celtics had reloaded and become an even deeper and more talented team than in '08.  As somebody else pointed out, if you look at the players who have actually contended for sixth man of the year this season, you'll see that every one of those players has been overwhelmingly more productive than Rasheed has.

Thus, in light of the fact that he's been generally less effective for us than the guy he replaced (Powe / Posey - not Mikki Moore or PJ Brown) and less productive and more costly than more than a few other players we could have acquired for less, he's quite a large disappointment.

Rasheed is sure a lot better than Mikki Moore, but so is every other big man currently playing regular minutes in the NBA (Mikki isn't in the league anymore).  Rasheed also makes more than 5x what Mikki did.

I just want to note that the Celtics got very lucky with Posey. The FA market dried up on him and he was left with very few choices, and decided to take a 1 year financial hit to for for a ring, and advertise himself for a bigger contract the following year.

Posey should have cost someone 6 million in 2007. The C's got lucky. Then the C's got burned hoping for someone else to fall in 2008.

[Mr October]

I still believe the Celtics could have swung a trade for Thomas if they really wanted to (taking on Salmon's contract, for example - which clearly wouldn't have been a bad move).

Frye and Warrick were restricted but both went to different teams (for much less money than Rasheed), so obviously they could have been had.

Whoops, didn't realize Warrick and Frye hopped teams without a match occurring. TP, for pointing that out.

[Mr October]

NO, actually I was all for the Rasheed signing but I thought Danny gave him too many years and I expected more.

I was really hoping that last season's decline in play was more due to lack of wanting to play for Michael Curry and play with Allen Iverson than it was age. I was hoping for an upswing in his ratios, percentages, and per minute production given who he would be playing with and for and due to the fact that he could expend more energy per minute because he would be playing less minutes.

Sadly, I was mistaken. His decline in 2008-09 seems to have been a combination of both lack of caring and age as his ratios, percentages and per minute production have all dropped this year in what has been a better situation for him. Age has taken a hold of Wallace's game and he now has to adjust to maximize his abilities which looks like it might have taken the whole season to do. We will see.

TP4U Mr O for a very civilized and well thought out discussion and to mmbaby too because, well, because she loves her Celtics and that's a good enough reason for me.

Woah, Nick. I had no idea you were pro Sheed last summer. You strike me as someone who has a strong preference for the "old school right kind of player" types, regardless of talent. Sorry about my assumption. 

Sheed was definitely a volatile roll of the dice.

Anyhow, good discussion. Lets kick some NYK butt tonight and keep getting oiled up for the post season!