Final Straw for Sheed

[SamuelAdams]

I was going to post that I thought Sheed was looking better on this home stand.  He clearly has lost weight and has been making a solid effort in the games. Sheed is the ADHD kid who gets bored in class.  He is a high achiever who needs a challenge to be motivated. It is obvious that he really has tried to up his game lately.

I liked the rotation that Doc used late in some games of the starters -Perk +Sheed. Obviously weaker defensively but a different offensive look for teams to counter. Then, he yells at his coach in front of everyone...

[Spilling Green Dye]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team. 

Perhaps you guys think that we have a better backup.  Let's look:

Sheldon Williams: 13.28
Glen Davis:  11.89

And yet there's a legion of people on here who think that Glen Davis is the future starting PF of this team.  If you guys statistically held Glen Davis to the same microscope that you're holding Rasheed, you'd find that Glen should not be playing any minutes on this team whatsoever.  Personally I think Glen should get a few minutes, even in the playoffs, against the right matchups.  Nonetheless, your Rasheed expectations are way off.  He's a backup performing as a backup.

[PosImpos]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

[EJPLAYA]

Enough with the 3 chucking comments about Sheed. It just isn't true anymore. In the first 45 games of the year he averaged 4.55 attempts per game. In the last 31 games he has averaged 2.2 per game. He is still taking about the same amount of shots from the floor. What does that mean?! That he isn't chucking threes anymore. I can't recall the last time I remember him shooting a really bad 3 pt attempt. I recall a LOT of them the first few months of the year.

Also, the guy has dropped a lot of weight and is in much better shape than when he came into camp. He has put forth the effort on that end as well.

If you want to rip him for his T's, fine. If you want to rip him because he is too old to rotate as fast as we'd like him to, fine. If you want to say he has an issue at times boxing his guy out, fine. There are enough things to criticize the guy for without drudging up old actions that aren't the case any more.

[twinbree]

I hated the yelling at Doc but TBH I feel the same about Sheed  I did a 6 months ago. I'd be worked up if he developed bad habits here he didn't have in Detroit but nothing about his season has been unexpected to me. His mobility looks a lot worse and it took him much longer to get to that 16th technical but he's been about what I expected. Basically who he's been for the past few seasons. It's disappointing he wasn't inspired to have a career revival just because he became a Celtic but you can't teach an almost retired dog new tricks. And warts and all he's  been a better backup C than his predecessors IMO.

[Mr October]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

[PosImpos]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Says more about how crappy the Celtics' backup big men have been in the past 15 years than anything else.  Though I'd rather have pre-injury Powe than Sheed.

[Mr October]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

How many of the above players were available to the Celtics last summer? Should the Celtics have resigned Mikki Moore?

Even then I'd take Sheed over half the above mentioned players (for this years playoff run).

I dont give a crap about Holinger and his PER. I judge players by watching them play. Sheed in the post in the playoffs is going to be a heck of a weapon.

[Mr October]

Enough with the 3 chucking comments about Sheed. It just isn't true anymore. In the first 45 games of the year he averaged 4.55 attempts per game. In the last 31 games he has averaged 2.2 per game. He is still taking about the same amount of shots from the floor. What does that mean?! That he isn't chucking threes anymore. I can't recall the last time I remember him shooting a really bad 3 pt attempt. I recall a LOT of them the first few months of the year.

Also, the guy has dropped a lot of weight and is in much better shape than when he came into camp. He has put forth the effort on that end as well.

If you want to rip him for his T's, fine. If you want to rip him because he is too old to rotate as fast as we'd like him to, fine. If you want to say he has an issue at times boxing his guy out, fine. There are enough things to criticize the guy for without drudging up old actions that aren't the case any more.

TP. Absolutely true. Since the all star break, he's taken less than 2 3-pointers per game. And his play (hustle, boxing out) is no more geriatric than PJ Brown in 2008. 

[nickagneta]

1.) I'm sorry. I didn't get the memo that said we couldn't critique Rasheed's entire year of playing here. I wasn't aware we were only allowed to talk about his most current work.

2.) Where have I personally ever blamed Rasheed for the woes of the Celtics this year. My earlier posts were a critique of Rasheed and no one else.

My point is that Rasheed Wallace is fair game because he has underperformed this year. His rebounding is atrocious for a 7 foot center. There's no arguing that, there is just no proof to the contrary. His defense has been lackluster and slow. Sorry but the first two things this team needed coming off the bench this year from their back up big was rebounding and defense and he has severely underperformed in both and continues to do so.

Has his offense gotten better? Has his rebounding gotten better? I don't know you tell me. His his numbers for February and March combined(season averages will be in parenthesis after the Feb/Mar number for comparison):

MPG: 21.1 (22.5)
PPG: 7.5  (9.1)
RPG: 3.7  (4.1)
FG%: 41.1%  (40.9)
3PT%: 22.0%  (28.0)

His minutes declined 6.3% but his points declined 17.6% and his rebounds declined 9.8%. He's had a 6% decline in accuracy of his 3PT shots and his total FG%, even though he is shooting more 2 pointers, has barely moved.

And last apology, but I am not going to give someone credit for good health when they have shown a decided lack of effort and unwillingness to play tough under the basket. He's healthy because he's played soft.

[Mr October]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Says more about how crappy the Celtics' backup big men have been in the past 15 years than anything else.  Though I'd rather have pre-injury Powe than Sheed.

A pre-injury version of Powe would have been cool to have as a backup 4... However, watching a combination of 6-8 Powe and 6-8 Glen Davis protecting the rim would have been horrifying.

The Celtics needed a guy standing 6-10, 6-11 that could play to give them more length against the other contenders. PJ was huge in 2008. Sheed could be huge in 2010.

[Mr October]

1.) I'm sorry. I didn't get the memo that said we couldn't critique Rasheed's entire year of playing here. I wasn't aware we were only allowed to talk about his most current work.

2.) Where have I personally ever blamed Rasheed for the woes of the Celtics this year. My earlier posts were a critique of Rasheed and no one else.

My point is that Rasheed Wallace is fair game because he has underperformed this year. His rebounding is atrocious for a 7 foot center. There's no arguing that, there is just no proof to the contrary. His defense has been lackluster and slow. Sorry but the first two things this team needed coming off the bench this year from their back up big was rebounding and defense and he has severely underperformed in both and continues to do so.

Has his offense gotten better? Has his rebounding gotten better? I don't know you tell me. His his numbers for February and March combined(season averages will be in parenthesis after the Feb/Mar number for comparison):

MPG: 21.1 (22.5)
PPG: 7.5  (9.1)
RPG: 3.7  (4.1)
FG%: 41.1%  (40.9)
3PT%: 22.0%  (28.0)

His minutes declined 6.3% but his points declined 17.6% and his rebounds declined 9.8%. He's had a 6% decline in accuracy of his 3PT shots and his total FG%, even though he is shooting more 2 pointers, has barely moved.

And last apology, but I am not going to give someone credit for good health when they have shown a decided lack of effort and unwillingness to play tough under the basket. He's healthy because he's played soft.

Sure Sheed can be criticized. However there is a strong contingent (not necessarily you) on this blog that want to use him as a scape goat of for everything that has gone wrong this season.

Railing him for game flaws which he has improved on (number of 3 point attempts), needlessly feeds the flames of the Sheed haters.

I wish the guy would bust his butt more on offense (in the post), or boxing out for rebounds on defense too. Yet if I have a choice, I'd rather not see this 35+ year old wear himself out in the regular season and have nothing left for the playoffs.

What is the Rasheed solution? Cut him? Bench him? Should the Celtics have signed a player with less talent last summer?

[Tai]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

How many of the above players were available to the Celtics last summer? Should the Celtics have resigned Mikki Moore?

Even then I'd take Sheed over half the above mentioned players (for this years playoff run).

I dont give a crap about Holinger and his PER. I judge players by watching them play. Sheed in the post in the playoffs is going to be a heck of a weapon.

I don't care much about PER either, but I don't need that to know Sheed has been below par this season, either.

I do hate, however, when people say he's the reason the Celtics are lazier. When he gets beat by his man, he does hurt his team in that way. But the way people are talking, you'd be thinking he's the reason that sometimes the starters in the 3rd quarter stunk sometimes when they should have put the game away, and considering the fact 3 of those 5 starters have sat out for considerable time due to injury and probably played when they should have sat, it's kinda annoying to see people put that on Sheed when he's on the bench.

I am still hopeful that Sheed will step it up in the playoffs.

[nickagneta]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Powe off the bench last year was better than Rasheed off the bench this year. But as was previously stated, considering the era of the Celtics over the last 15 years, what really are you comparing him to? Pretty much bad players.

What I think would be fair to compare him too are all the other sixth men that there are in basketball and see if he stacks up with what he is giving this team as a sixth man and what other sixth men are giving their teams as sixth men.

Because, lest we forget, Sheed wasn't brought in here to be just the first big off the bench he was brought in to be a difference making sixth man. Has he been that? Let's take a look at some other sixth men:

Atlanta - Jamal Crawford
San Antonio - Manu Ginobelli
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Orlando - JJ Reddick
Los Angeles - Lamar Odom
Denver - JR Smith
Houston - Carl Landry
Dallas - Jason Terry
Utah - Paul Milsap
Oklahoma City - james Harden


And these are the contenders. I am sure there are a more difference making sixth men in the league that are not on contenders. As a sixth man, I just don't think he has lived up to what this team was expecting or needing and quite honestly, regardless of what he does in the playoffs, I think he's out of here this off season, even if Boston has to ship a boat load of money and some picks to get rid of him.

[mmbaby]

I don't blame Sheed for saving himself for the playoffs, which makes sense at his age. He's had a huge up-tick in his last several games, as we are nearing the playoffs, which kind of confirms the theory.

It bothers me quite a bit that Celtics fans bash their own players like I see here. The thoughtful analysis is fine, but the bashing is surprising to me.

I've never once believed Sheed was lazy. I think he paces himself. He's one of the most intelligent players in the league and it's probable that he knows his limits and has fine tuned his game to make the most of his talent.

As for his temper, well, that's just a part of who he is. But he also calls it like it is and you can always count on his being straight-forward and real. I admire this aspect of his character. He is a presence and an intimidating one, and often simply because of his intelligence - especially to the refs.

His temper hurts him at times, but he is a passionate person and nothing is going to change that. He is loved by his teammates and by his fans, respected and feared by the refs. Doc understands him very well as shown in this quote:
________________________________________________________________
“Once a guy goes, I want to stay away,” Rivers said. “He has to yell at them, his teammates, the refs, me, and that’s when you just have to let him vent.

“You know who Rasheed is - at times he’s an emotional player. But once he does the explosion - you saw it with him sitting on the bench - if I had needed him I could have sent him back in. He gathers himself pretty well. He’s just like all of us. When we do something emotionally, then five minutes later, 10 minutes later, you think, ‘Wow, I wish I could get that back.’ But you can’t.”
_______________________________________________________________
Sheed is the type of guy who needs to vent at times and there is no stopping him and Doc understands this. He is not intimidated by this. Many people are and that's why he gets the bashing, I believe. Talking about how it was 'shameful' to yell at Doc is so puritanical. Please! He is certainly not the first of Doc's players to yell out at him in public. And someone here mentioned how they were shocked, or something like that, when Sheed brushed off Ray's hand off of his arm. Please! Get real. Have you ever in your life been angry?

This was a highly emotional and intense game and his anger shows how much it meant to him. If he didn't give a care and was lazy as some have said, his emotions would not be this high.

I think when he got angry, it was because of a foul called on BBD. Sheed was, in my opinion, just fed-up with the refs. He is constantly picked on by the refs. He is their target. It's wrong and he stands up and says it's wrong. He was not afraid to stand up for a team mate, even in his position of being ref's target. He is the real thing. You can call it a lot of things, but the truth is he is a real person, not a playa.  

Please stop bashing our own players, especially near playoff time when they need our support.