Final Straw for Sheed

[Mr October]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Powe off the bench last year was better than Rasheed off the bench this year. But as was previously stated, considering the era of the Celtics over the last 15 years, what really are you comparing him to? Pretty much bad players.

What I think would be fair to compare him too are all the other sixth men that there are in basketball and see if he stacks up with what he is giving this team as a sixth man and what other sixth men are giving their teams as sixth men.

Because, lest we forget, Sheed wasn't brought in here to be just the first big off the bench he was brought in to be a difference making sixth man. Has he been that? Let's take a look at some other sixth men:

Atlanta - Jamal Crawford
San Antonio - Manu Ginobelli
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Orlando - JJ Reddick
Los Angeles - Lamar Odom
Denver - JR Smith
Houston - Carl Landry
Dallas - Jason Terry
Utah - Paul Milsap
Oklahoma City - james Harden


And these are the contenders. I am sure there are a more difference making sixth men in the league that are not on contenders. As a sixth man, I just don't think he has lived up to what this team was expecting or needing and quite honestly, regardless of what he does in the playoffs, I think he's out of here this off season, even if Boston has to ship a boat load of money and some picks to get rid of him.

Wait a minute... I was under the impression that Sheed was coming in to replace Mikki Morre / PJ brown combined with a little of what Posey brought to the team. Also if you want a decent big man, you pretty much have to over pay.

I dont recall Manu Ginobili, Anderson Varejao, Lamar Odom being available to the Celtics last year. Heck James Posey in 2008 would be a huge disappointment as a 6th man when compared to these 3 players.

How many of the above listed 6th men are 35 years old?

What were the Celtics supposed to do last summer? What are they supposed to do with Sheed now?

And back on topic, I originally only criticized your '3-point chucker' description of Sheed. Did he play that way earlier in the year? Yes. But is that how his current play should be described? No. He changed that aspect of his game. Hopefully in a couple weeks his game will be fully back in gear. (Even then our expectations need to be tempered. This is a 35 year old player, not a 28 year old one).

I almost blame the earlier 3 point chucking on Doc. Hes the one who designed the plays that continually left Sheed open at the 3 point line on pick and rolls, etc. But I'm straying off point.

[Mr October]

Nick. Let me try meeting you in the middle...

Sheed is under performing during this regular season. I would like to have seen more hustle from him.

However knowing that he has a history of coasting in the regular season, and only getting up for certain games and elevating his play in the playoffs, I knew what to expect this year. And considering Sheed is 35, I'd much much rather that he coast a bit and bring it in the playoffs. (We can agree to disagree on this paragraph.)

Now, about your 3 point chucking comment. Can you please acknowledge that Rashed was a 3 point chucker earlier this year. But at least he has dropped his chucks by more than half during the past 2 months.

thanks.

Go Celtics!

[nickagneta]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Powe off the bench last year was better than Rasheed off the bench this year. But as was previously stated, considering the era of the Celtics over the last 15 years, what really are you comparing him to? Pretty much bad players.

What I think would be fair to compare him too are all the other sixth men that there are in basketball and see if he stacks up with what he is giving this team as a sixth man and what other sixth men are giving their teams as sixth men.

Because, lest we forget, Sheed wasn't brought in here to be just the first big off the bench he was brought in to be a difference making sixth man. Has he been that? Let's take a look at some other sixth men:

Atlanta - Jamal Crawford
San Antonio - Manu Ginobelli
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Orlando - JJ Reddick
Los Angeles - Lamar Odom
Denver - JR Smith
Houston - Carl Landry
Dallas - Jason Terry
Utah - Paul Milsap
Oklahoma City - james Harden


And these are the contenders. I am sure there are a more difference making sixth men in the league that are not on contenders. As a sixth man, I just don't think he has lived up to what this team was expecting or needing and quite honestly, regardless of what he does in the playoffs, I think he's out of here this off season, even if Boston has to ship a boat load of money and some picks to get rid of him.

Wait a minute... I was under the impression that Sheed was coming in to replace Mikki Morre / PJ brown combined with a little of what Posey brought to the team. Also if you want a decent big man, you pretty much have to over pay.

I dont recall Manu Ginobili, Anderson Varejao, Lamar Odom being available to the Celtics last year. Heck James Posey in 2008 would be a huge disappointment as a 6th man when compared to these 3 players.

How many of the above listed 6th men are 35 years old?

What were the Celtics supposed to do last summer? What are they supposed to do with Sheed now?

And back on topic, I originally only criticized your '3-point chucker' description of Sheed. Did he play that way earlier in the year? Yes. But is that how his current play should be described? No. He changed that aspect of his game. Hopefully in a couple weeks his game will be fully back in gear. (Even then our expectations need to be tempered. This is a 35 year old player, not a 28 year old one).

I almost blame the earlier 3 point chucking on Doc. Hes the one who designed the plays that continually left Sheed open at the 3 point line on pick and rolls, etc. But I'm straying off point.

You are completely missing the point. I never mentioned who he was replacing, which by the way is Leon Powe, nor did I mention that there was in fact someone better to get. My point was he wasn't just brought in here as some other big off the bench.

Rasheed is a former champion and a 4-time former All-Star. The entire front office and Big Three went courting him. You just don't do that for guys to give you mediocre, saving-myself-for-the-postseason performances. He was expected to be a difference making sixth man who given his cut in minutes could go all out in those reduced minutes and perform way better than he has.

But he hasn't and I think people have a right to criticize him and doubt that he will bring in the playoffs.

I personally don't but the "the last couple of games he's been better" argument as the numbers for February and March are atrocious. Want me to believe in him turning things around then he should have been performing much better than just the last couple of games.

And to mmbaby, I know you love all things Celtics, but when the team performs in an underwhelming manner and certain players perform that way, it is only natural to expect some criticism and, accordingly, some over the top criticism. I think Rasheed has definitely earned some this year. And, call me old fashioned, but I have been a coach and insubordination in a public manner is never good in any way and I don't belkieve a single word Doc spun in regards to the Rasheed blowout. I think he's playing the politician on this one.

[Mr October]

Now let's look at the non-statistical reasons to be down on Rasheed

He showed up to camp overweight and has never really gotten himself back into peak physical condition.

He has appeared slow to pick up on rotations and play help defense.

He has shown a complete lack of effort in trying to box out his men and go the extra step or two to go after a rebound.

He has chucked and chucked from three point land often at the most uncalled for times.

He has rarely stayed in the low post even though it is the best part of his game.

He recently went insubordinate on his coach in public.

Oh yeah, and he leads the league in technical fouls.

And yet, Rasheed is the best bench big man the Celtics have had in the last 15+ years.

The bench plays much better when he is present. The starters even play better when he plays with them. The flat out knows how to play the game.

He's old, picks his spots, and has a history of saving himself for the playoffs.

I'll take him over Davis, Shelden, Scal, Powe, Moore, Brown, Olowokandi, Rodeny Rogers, Blount, etc.

Powe off the bench last year was better than Rasheed off the bench this year. But as was previously stated, considering the era of the Celtics over the last 15 years, what really are you comparing him to? Pretty much bad players.

What I think would be fair to compare him too are all the other sixth men that there are in basketball and see if he stacks up with what he is giving this team as a sixth man and what other sixth men are giving their teams as sixth men.

Because, lest we forget, Sheed wasn't brought in here to be just the first big off the bench he was brought in to be a difference making sixth man. Has he been that? Let's take a look at some other sixth men:

Atlanta - Jamal Crawford
San Antonio - Manu Ginobelli
Cleveland - Anderson Varejao
Orlando - JJ Reddick
Los Angeles - Lamar Odom
Denver - JR Smith
Houston - Carl Landry
Dallas - Jason Terry
Utah - Paul Milsap
Oklahoma City - james Harden


And these are the contenders. I am sure there are a more difference making sixth men in the league that are not on contenders. As a sixth man, I just don't think he has lived up to what this team was expecting or needing and quite honestly, regardless of what he does in the playoffs, I think he's out of here this off season, even if Boston has to ship a boat load of money and some picks to get rid of him.

Wait a minute... I was under the impression that Sheed was coming in to replace Mikki Morre / PJ brown combined with a little of what Posey brought to the team. Also if you want a decent big man, you pretty much have to over pay.

I dont recall Manu Ginobili, Anderson Varejao, Lamar Odom being available to the Celtics last year. Heck James Posey in 2008 would be a huge disappointment as a 6th man when compared to these 3 players.

How many of the above listed 6th men are 35 years old?

What were the Celtics supposed to do last summer? What are they supposed to do with Sheed now?

And back on topic, I originally only criticized your '3-point chucker' description of Sheed. Did he play that way earlier in the year? Yes. But is that how his current play should be described? No. He changed that aspect of his game. Hopefully in a couple weeks his game will be fully back in gear. (Even then our expectations need to be tempered. This is a 35 year old player, not a 28 year old one).

I almost blame the earlier 3 point chucking on Doc. Hes the one who designed the plays that continually left Sheed open at the 3 point line on pick and rolls, etc. But I'm straying off point.

You are completely missing the point. I never mentioned who he was replacing, which by the way is Leon Powe, nor did I mention that there was in fact someone better to get. My point was he wasn't just brought in here as some other big off the bench.

Rasheed is a former champion and a 4-time former All-Star. The entire front office and Big Three went courting him. You just don't do that for guys to give you mediocre, saving-myself-for-the-postseason performances. He was expected to be a difference making sixth man who given his cut in minutes could go all out in those reduced minutes and perform way better than he has.

But he hasn't and I think people have a right to criticize him and doubt that he will bring in the playoffs.

I personally don't but the "the last couple of games he's been better" argument as the numbers for February and March are atrocious. Want me to believe in him turning things around then he should have been performing much better than just the last couple of games.

And to mmbaby, I know you love all things Celtics, but when the team performs in an underwhelming manner and certain players perform that way, it is only natural to expect some criticism and, accordingly, some over the top criticism. I think Rasheed has definitely earned some this year. And, call me old fashioned, but I have been a coach and insubordination in a public manner is never good in any way and I don't belkieve a single word Doc spun in regards to the Rasheed blowout. I think he's playing the politician on this one.

I'm missing the point? OK... I'd rather have Rasheed paired with Davis, than Powe paired with Davis. Please briefly restate your point.

The Celtics were desperate for a guy who could play some center. Sure Rasheed was a former all star. He is also 35, over the hill and only worthy of earning a MLE contract in the summer of 2009. His all star level play was way in his past. How many 35 year old former all stars make the transition to super 6th man when their minutes are reduced. Usually the older guys (like Larry Bird in his last couple years no less) need the minutes and extra shots early to get into game rhythm. Usually the more minutes SHeed gets the better his numbers are.

Can you do me a favor and acknowledge that Rasheed is much less of a 3 point chucker over the past 2 months?

Or can you offer what the Celtics should have done last summer instead of signing Sheed?

If you are too stubborn to do this, then fine. I'll avoid criticizing any of your posts.

Go Celtics!

[moiso]

It's good that he cut down on the 3's, but it's just stupid that he took so many in the first place.  Seems like he cut down on the rebounding too.  Against the Cavs he had a grand total of 0 rebounds.

[Spilling Green Dye]

mmbaby, darn you, you forced me to log in just to give you a TP!  It's not often we see eye-to-eye, but I really liked your post.  In general there is too much extreme criticism (borderline hate) towards some of our players.  

In regards to Rasheed, he certainly has been playing better and better towards the end of the season.  He's ridiculously emotional, unfairly targeted by Refs, and its good to see that he's coming alive and caring more now.  I think even he realizes that yelling at Doc in public is not the best thing to do, and I'd wager that this could only help him to take his energy out on the court more (and not the staff, refs, players, etc).  

Despite the fact that these next few games don't "mean" much, I'm really looking forward to them.  Every game I see something new that makes me smile.  Some of the recent things being:  Doc not going with full 5-man bench player rotations, Rondo pushing it up the floor, Rasheed posting up more, Ray Allen shooting better, Pierce looking better everyday, Tony Allen looking like the player we need, and a variety of other things.  Here's to enjoying the rest of the season!

[Mr October]

It's good that he cut down on the 3's, but it's just stupid that he took so many in the first place.  Seems like he cut down on the rebounding too.  Against the Cavs he had a grand total of 0 rebounds.

Yup, he should have slowed down on the 3's long ago. And Sheed has been statistically a terrible rebounder throughout his career.

Did the C's bring Sheed in to be a beast on the boards? Not so much... However the guy can be a very deadly weapon on offense. And knows how to play solid defense.

For those hoping for a resurgence in the playoffs take hope in this:

He is visibly playing better as the season goes on. His shooting percentages on 2-3 days rest are awesome from the 2 and the 3. The guy has been killing it at 50% from the field (including 40% from the 3 point line).

Not bad for a guy making an average NBA salary, in a position that is historically over paid.

He messed up by yelling at Doc. But I'd much rather have a guy that shows some life, than no life or care at all.

Lets see what this guy brings in the playoffs. That is what he was brought in for.

[moiso]

Hopefully he doesn't self destruct like he did last year in the playoffs.  I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.  In a couple of our biggest games this year, Rasheed also self destructed, such as the other day against Cleveland.

[Mr October]

Hopefully he doesn't self destruct like he did last year in the playoffs.  I wouldn't get my hopes up too much.  In a couple of our biggest games this year, Rasheed also self destructed, such as the other day against Cleveland.

Yep, ya roll the dice with Sheed. Considering he has played in 150 playoff games, gone deep into the post season during SEVEN seasons, and only laid an egg last year, i'll take my chances.

Go Celtics!!

[nickagneta]

Rasheed is shooting less three point shots over the last 30 games or so than he was previously.

But he's still chucking the ball. Sorry, shoot 28% from three point range and you are chucking it. I don't care if you are shooting 4 three point shots per game or 2.5. If you can't make at least 1 out of 3 three point shots in a game on a regular basis, you are chucking it and your butt should be in the low post and not around the three point line.

And my point is that he was brought in and was expected to play much better than he has, game in and game out. The Celtics aren't paying him to perform his best only the playoffs. They are paying him to play his best, give his best effort and be a difference maker all year. And he hasn't.

As for what they should have done last year. Drew Gooden has played better, rebounded the ball much better, was signed for less years and less money. Zaza Pachulia in 20 minutes per night would definitely b a better option, IMO. Juwan Howard has given Portland extremely similar numbers that Rasheed has given Boston and yet he cost Portland a vet minimum contract.

Then there's always the argument that they could have signed someone like Etan Thomas or Rasho Nesterovic as their backup center and then spent the MLE on a wing player sixth man like Grant Hill or Danhtay Jones. There's always the possibility of trying to sign and trade Baby. Just because we wouldn't have signed Rasheed doesn't mean that there wasn't other options available that would have made the overall team better.

[PosImpos]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

How many of the above players were available to the Celtics last summer? Should the Celtics have resigned Mikki Moore?

Even then I'd take Sheed over half the above mentioned players (for this years playoff run).

I dont give a crap about Hollinger and his PER. I judge players by watching them play. Sheed in the post in the playoffs is going to be a heck of a weapon.

At least a few of those players were available or could have been made available through pretty simple trades.  We're not talking about big names, here.  There's a reason all of those guys are making less than Sheed is.  

As Nick so astutely explained, we absolutely could have had one of them and gotten more production.  For example, we could have signed Channing Frye (who actually would have spread the floor), or Hakim Warrick (who would have given us some badly needed athleticism and speed), or we could have traded for Tyrus Thomas at the deadline (likely a lot more useful for us than Nate Robinson has been).

All Rasheed gives us over those players is experience and (supposedly) his ability to spread the floor.  Honestly, I'd rather have a player who makes 0% of his threes and takes practically none than a guy who makes 25% and takes a fair amount.  The experience part is pretty overrated, especially since we have more than enough of that on the roster already.  

[Mr October]

Rasheed is shooting less three point shots over the last 30 games or so than he was previously.

But he's still chucking the ball. Sorry, shoot 28% from three point range and you are chucking it. I don't care if you are shooting 4 three point shots per game or 2.5. If you can't make at least 1 out of 3 three point shots in a game on a regular basis, you are chucking it and your butt should be in the low post and not around the three point line.

And my point is that he was brought in and was expected to play much better than he has, game in and game out. The Celtics aren't paying him to perform his best only the playoffs. They are paying him to play his best, give his best effort and be a difference maker all year. And he hasn't.

As for what they should have done last year. Drew Gooden has played better, rebounded the ball much better, was signed for less years and less money. Zaza Pachulia in 20 minutes per night would definitely b a better option, IMO. Juwan Howard has given Portland extremely similar numbers that Rasheed has given Boston and yet he cost Portland a vet minimum contract.

Then there's always the argument that they could have signed someone like Etan Thomas or Rasho Nesterovic as their backup center and then spent the MLE on a wing player sixth man like Grant Hill or Danhtay Jones. There's always the possibility of trying to sign and trade Baby. Just because we wouldn't have signed Rasheed doesn't mean that there wasn't other options available that would have made the overall team better.

TP. Thanks for answering my questions. I think you've been against Sheed from the get go, and thats cool. (I was all for him, obviously.) We don't need to agree on everything.

Here's to hoping for a great post season run!!

Go Celtics!

[PosImpos]

Rasheed is shooting less three point shots over the last 30 games or so than he was previously.

But he's still chucking the ball. Sorry, shoot 28% from three point range and you are chucking it. I don't care if you are shooting 4 three point shots per game or 2.5. If you can't make at least 1 out of 3 three point shots in a game on a regular basis, you are chucking it and your butt should be in the low post and not around the three point line.

And my point is that he was brought in and was expected to play much better than he has, game in and game out. The Celtics aren't paying him to perform his best only the playoffs. They are paying him to play his best, give his best effort and be a difference maker all year. And he hasn't.

As for what they should have done last year. Drew Gooden has played better, rebounded the ball much better, was signed for less years and less money. Zaza Pachulia in 20 minutes per night would definitely b a better option, IMO. Juwan Howard has given Portland extremely similar numbers that Rasheed has given Boston and yet he cost Portland a vet minimum contract.

Then there's always the argument that they could have signed someone like Etan Thomas or Rasho Nesterovic as their backup center and then spent the MLE on a wing player sixth man like Grant Hill or Danhtay Jones. There's always the possibility of trying to sign and trade Baby. Just because we wouldn't have signed Rasheed doesn't mean that there wasn't other options available that would have made the overall team better.

TP. Thanks for answering my questions. I think you've been against Sheed from the get go, and thats cool. (I was all for him, obviously.) We don't need to agree on everything.

Here's to hoping for a great post season run!!

Go Celtics!

Personally, I was ecstatic when we signed Sheed; I thought he was exactly what the team needed.  Many experts picked him to be a contender for sixth man of the year, and most people really thought the Celtics had reloaded and become an even deeper and more talented team than in '08.  As somebody else pointed out, if you look at the players who have actually contended for sixth man of the year this season, you'll see that every one of those players has been overwhelmingly more productive than Rasheed has.

Thus, in light of the fact that he's been generally less effective for us than the guy he replaced (Powe / Posey - not Mikki Moore or PJ Brown) and less productive and more costly than more than a few other players we could have acquired for less, he's quite a large disappointment.

Rasheed is sure a lot better than Mikki Moore, but so is every other big man currently playing regular minutes in the NBA (Mikki isn't in the league anymore).  Rasheed also makes more than 5x what Mikki did.

[Mr October]

Rasheed's PER of 13.29 ranks him 184th in the league in that category

So what you're saying is that our backup big man who is making the MLE has performed at slightly below the league average player?  In other words, his 13.29 means that he should be designated as a backup.  Surprise!  He is a backup and not a starter for this team.  

Rasheed Wallace (22.5 mpg, 13.29 PER)
Salary: $5,854,000

Let's look at players making substantially less than Sheed who have been more efficient in similar mpg:

Spencer Hawes (26.4 mpg, 13.84 PER)
Nenad Krstic (23 mpg, 13.86 PER)
Tyler Hansbrough (17.7 mpg, 14.67 PER)
Kris Humphries (17.7 mpg, 14.84 PER)
Taj Gibson (26.6 mpg, 14.26 PER)
Matt Bonner (17.5 mpg, 14.88 PER)
Serge Ibaka (17.6 mpg, 14.43 PER)
Channing Frye (27.1 mpg, 15.15 PER)
Ersan Ilyasova (23.3 mpg, 15.94 PER)
Hakim Warrick (21.3 mpg, 15.88 PER)
Roy Hibbert (2.49 mpg, 15.86 PER)
Chris Andersen (22.5 mpg, 15.92 PER)
JJ Hickson (20.6 mpg, 15.2 PER)
Tyrus Thomas (22.7 mpg, 16.86 PER)
DeJuan Blair (18 mpg, 17.35 PER)
Drew Gooden (24.9 mpg, 17.19 PER)
Robin Lopez (19.3 mpg, 17.7 PER)
Anthony Randolph (22.7 mpg, 18.76 PER)


Your post suggests that people are expecting too much of Rasheed, since he is rightfully a backup.  Unfortunately, there are plenty of backup PFs / Cs in this league who make less and are more efficient, which justifies the level of frustration that Celtics fans (and likely Doc) have with Rasheed.

How many of the above players were available to the Celtics last summer? Should the Celtics have resigned Mikki Moore?

Even then I'd take Sheed over half the above mentioned players (for this years playoff run).

I dont give a crap about Hollinger and his PER. I judge players by watching them play. Sheed in the post in the playoffs is going to be a heck of a weapon.

At least a few of those players were available or could have been made available through pretty simple trades.  We're not talking about big names, here.  There's a reason all of those guys are making less than Sheed is.  

As Nick so astutely explained, we absolutely could have had one of them and gotten more production.  For example, we could have signed Channing Frye (who actually would have spread the floor), or Hakim Warrick (who would have given us some badly needed athleticism and speed), or we could have traded for Tyrus Thomas at the deadline (likely a lot more useful for us than Nate Robinson has been).

All Rasheed gives us over those players is experience and (supposedly) his ability to spread the floor.  Honestly, I'd rather have a player who makes 0% of his threes and takes practically none than a guy who makes 25% and takes a fair amount.  The experience part is pretty overrated, especially since we have more than enough of that on the roster already.  

I don't recall there being a reasonable Tyrus Thomas deal out there for Boston to pounce on (Charlotte trumped Boston with a better draft pick). I honestly don't think Andersen wanted to leave Denver. Same for Hill in Phoenix.

A lot of guys were restricted (Warrick, Frye, etc.) The C's offer would have been matched. Who would the Celtics have traded? I recall the market was very underwhelming for Davis.

The Celtics really didn't have great options for trades or free agents from everything I read. Sheed is far from perfect, but he sure as heck looked like the best option the C's had last summer (and i still think he was).

[nickagneta]

Rasheed is shooting less three point shots over the last 30 games or so than he was previously.

But he's still chucking the ball. Sorry, shoot 28% from three point range and you are chucking it. I don't care if you are shooting 4 three point shots per game or 2.5. If you can't make at least 1 out of 3 three point shots in a game on a regular basis, you are chucking it and your butt should be in the low post and not around the three point line.

And my point is that he was brought in and was expected to play much better than he has, game in and game out. The Celtics aren't paying him to perform his best only the playoffs. They are paying him to play his best, give his best effort and be a difference maker all year. And he hasn't.

As for what they should have done last year. Drew Gooden has played better, rebounded the ball much better, was signed for less years and less money. Zaza Pachulia in 20 minutes per night would definitely b a better option, IMO. Juwan Howard has given Portland extremely similar numbers that Rasheed has given Boston and yet he cost Portland a vet minimum contract.

Then there's always the argument that they could have signed someone like Etan Thomas or Rasho Nesterovic as their backup center and then spent the MLE on a wing player sixth man like Grant Hill or Danhtay Jones. There's always the possibility of trying to sign and trade Baby. Just because we wouldn't have signed Rasheed doesn't mean that there wasn't other options available that would have made the overall team better.

TP. Thanks for answering my questions. I think you've been against Sheed from the get go, and thats cool. (I was all for him, obviously.) We don't need to agree on everything.

Here's to hoping for a great post season run!!

Go Celtics!

NO, actually I was all for the Rasheed signing but I thought Danny gave him too many years and I expected more.

I was really hoping that last season's decline in play was more due to lack of wanting to play for Michael Curry and play with Allen Iverson than it was age. I was hoping for an upswing in his ratios, percentages, and per minute production given who he would be playing with and for and due to the fact that he could expend more energy per minute because he would be playing less minutes.

Sadly, I was mistaken. His decline in 2008-09 seems to have been a combination of both lack of caring and age as his ratios, percentages and per minute production have all dropped this year in what has been a better situation for him. Age has taken a hold of Wallace's game and he now has to adjust to maximize his abilities which looks like it might have taken the whole season to do. We will see.

TP4U Mr O for a very civilized and well thought out discussion and to mmbaby too because, well, because she loves her Celtics and that's a good enough reason for me.