Report: Hayward favouritism caused issues

[SparzWizard]

If what MacMullen is saying is true, this is pretty pathetic.

I'm not one to defend Hayward, but if you have a $30 million player coming back from an injury, of course you're going to give him his shot to start and see how his body responds. And he didn't play well, so Brad benched him in lieu of Tatum and Morris.

So, what's the big deal?

And if Rozier and Brown are the two who started this commotion, then I want nothing to do with EITHER of them!!

Honestly, if I'm Ainge (and actually had brains), I'd blow this team completely up and totally re-shape the roster.

Grown men acting like children.

Brown sucked it up and moved on. But Rozier was being ballistic over it so he needs to leave. Time for a new fresh face running point.

[td450]

Who's leaving, and who's staying?

Does this make much sense?

[Never Nervous Pervis]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

But that's my point. You can't just assume what worked with one mix of players is going to work with a different mix of players. Some lockerrooms can police themselves while others can't. It's up to the coach - especially one dubbed boy genius - to understand and manage his team.

So you think Pop changes his coaching philosophy and manages his team differently each year depending on the vibe of the locker room? Did he fail managing Kawhi ⁠— since he's, you know, been dubbed best coach in the game?

Pop absolutely failed. From not reigning in Parker to seemingly not trusting Kawhi's judgement, he failed miserably.
However Pop has brought a handful of rings and 2 decades of success to that team, and his 2017-2018 period from a personal standpoint was tragic.

You certainly have strong opinions for someone who has no idea what happened in the Spurs locker room.

Rofl. Asks a question, and gets mad when someone has an opinion that differs from theirs. Nice.

Pop obviously failed

I didn't get mad. I just think your hyperbole is silly and misguided.

What hyperbole? Popovich should have stopped Tony Parker from publicly trashing Kawhi and saying that he'd endured a worse injury, but he just let it happen. Pop should have encouraged Kawhi to do what he wanted in terms of his injury, but he didn't, and it came off that the Spurs didn't care about his well-being.

This isn't hyperbole, this is publicly available knowledge.

It's hyperbolic to say the most respected coach in the game,  with a long history of getting along well with mercurial players, and who's won multiple championship rings, "failed miserably" in dealing with Kawhi's situation. You don't know the true severity of the injury, and you don't know the chronology of how the relationship deteriorated or who was truly in the wrong. Maybe both sides had valid reasons for doing what they did, maybe both were stubborn, maybe there were no easy answers and once Kawhi felt wronged, real or imagined, there was no chance at reconciliation no matter who the coach was?

Maybe he had an agent or an uncle or some friends in his ear, giving him bad advice? Maybe he just wanted to play in LA?

I don't know what happened inside that player's only meeting. Tony Parker wasn't the only one who was vocal and questioned Kawhi's desire to play. How would you feel if Kyrie left the team to rehab on his own and his teammates questioned his desire to play?

It's not publicly available knowledge that Pop failed miserably. This is a hot take gone sideways.

LOL. I must've missed the memo where previous successes mean that a coach is absolved of all failings. I guess Brad can just wash his hands and claim this season had nothing to do with him because he had routinely produced overachievers prior to that.

I don't know why you're getting so defensive over Pop, and I don't really care. He screwed up majorly in the way he handled that, and you can argue otherwise until the cows come home.

The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. If someone called Al Horford a bad teammate this year, the first thing you'd do is weigh that accusation against the 12 years he's played in this league, where everyone has great things to say about his class, professionalism and heart. It's called analyzing the facts on both sides, being measured, and taking a nuanced position rather than throwing out a bunch of hot takes.

That's what a critical thinker does.

[tonydelk]

I was often more upset that he was so passive on the floor. He never looked for his own offense and was just out there passing the ball. I was hoping he would be aggressive esp off the bench.

He just seems like a guy who has no clue what his role is with this team. And maybe this year Brad explains that to everyone.

I agree with I wish he would have taken more shots.  When he got going and got into  flow he was playing like the Hayward of old.  It seemed to me he tried to be a team 1st guy, letting the other guys get their shots because of what the team had to put up with this year letting him get back his confidence.  I think that hurt the team more then helped the team.  Mook didn't care.  If he was open he was shooting.  I think Hayward needs to shoot more next year.  Mook needs to go and those shots need to go to Hayward.  Stop trying to be a great team guy by passing up open shots.  Be the leader and allstar the C's signed.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

But that's my point. You can't just assume what worked with one mix of players is going to work with a different mix of players. Some lockerrooms can police themselves while others can't. It's up to the coach - especially one dubbed boy genius - to understand and manage his team.

So you think Pop changes his coaching philosophy and manages his team differently each year depending on the vibe of the locker room? Did he fail managing Kawhi ⁠— since he's, you know, been dubbed best coach in the game?

Pop absolutely failed. From not reigning in Parker to seemingly not trusting Kawhi's judgement, he failed miserably.
However Pop has brought a handful of rings and 2 decades of success to that team, and his 2017-2018 period from a personal standpoint was tragic.

You certainly have strong opinions for someone who has no idea what happened in the Spurs locker room.

Lol you asked. Don't get snippy because people disagree.

And I agree. Pop failed. Kawhi is left, didn't he?

Kawhi can be a great player and also someone who was in the wrong for quitting on the Spurs last year (not saying that was the case; it's one possible narrative, though). That doesn't mean Pop "failed miserably."

And please don't tell me what to do.

Don't put words into my mouth.

How about we just don't engage in a back & forth anymore? A poster answered your question respectfully - even though it had nothing to do with Brad and this team -there was no need to be rude.

Since when is stating that someone has strong opinions without knowing all the facts rude? Drawing a parallel with another great coach to suggest that you're oversimplifying the problem last year is certainly on topic.

[johnnygreen]

I hate to throw more gas into the dumpster fire that we have gone through recently. The organization seems to be following the lead of their young guys. Is this a mistake? Are they the actual cause of the turmoil the team went through this season? This occurred to me after reading Brown’s recent Instagram message…”Would rather walk than ride with bad company!”

Stories like this (Hayward favouritism caused issues), has me questioning their level of commitment to the team. I can’t see Irving or Horford (or some of the other veterans) being upset with Coach Stevens trying to get Hayward’s confidence and game back, as they would understand that veterans are needed to win come playoff time. Did guys like Tatum, Brown and Rozier get so full of themselves during the 2018 playoff run, that they thought they’re better than the veterans ahead of them.

Do other players around the league, view the Celtics as a team looking more towards the future, rather than an organization looking to do anything to win now? Could this be one of the reasons why Anthony Davis wanted to go to LA, who’s window to win is immediate with LeBron?

Kyrie and Al may be leaving, but the supposedly cause of turmoil is still on the team, in Gordon Hayward. I don’t want Rozier back. Should Danny try to trade Tatum or Brown, to relieve the stress of the minutes between Hayward, Tatum and Brown? I feel like one of those three guys has to go, but it would be tough to get good value in trading Hayward.

[nickagneta]

Enough with the snippy back and forth regarding Pops/Kawhi/San Antonio. Move on and stay on subject.