Report: Hayward favouritism caused issues

[gouki88]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

Yep, he definitely and sadly did. Hopefully he's learned and we surround him with a better assistant group

[pp34isthe1]

This is probably the undoing. There were 7 guys better than Hayward on the team last year. Watching someone eat your minutes, make 30 mil when you know you are playing better would p--- me off too.

Young guys pushed back, Horford and Kyrie couldn’t control the locker room. Kyrie got blamed. Now we are here.

Cs really got screwed by having too much talent and not having enough to go around.

Hayward injury was unfortunate and what/if will always be there but I never personally liked the signing or the contract.

[ozgod]

As ESPN.com's Jackie MacMullan explained Tuesday on Arbella Early Edition, the coaching staff created problems by pushing the former All-Star.

"You hate to pick on Gordon Hayward because he was coming back from injury and he was doing the best he could, but I really think that's where it started," MacMullan said (h/t Michael Deprisco of NBC Sports). "They were force-feeding him on his teammates. Brad [Stevens] knew Gordon well. He wanted to get his confidence back." ....

"He gave the benefit of the doubt over and over to a player that wasn't ready, to a guy who had history with him, and it rankled that locker room, and it bothered that locker room," MacMullan said.

I was watching Early Edition when she mentioned this, but it's not new. Since November there were threads here that there were issues with the young guys (ie Jaylen and Terry) because they felt their minutes could have been more without Gordon taking up 20 mpg. Even though Smart and Mook were the main players who took Jaylen's starting spot from him, and Kyrie took Terry's starting spot from him, the target was obviously Gordon since his production was terrible. (I'm leaving Tatum out of it since Tatum's role actually increased, while Jaylen and Terry's decreased, and they had seniority over him). Add to that Brad and Gordon's previous relationship and it just looked like a teacher's pet issue. Perception = reality.

Though Jackie said, and I agree with her, that Brad would probably have done it for any key player who he felt needed confidence coming back after a horrific injury. And I'm sure Gordon felt the resentment...which is why he went out of his way to pass to those players (Jaylen and Terry) even at the expense of taking his own shots.

All the confluence of factors that happened last season, you could really write a case study about organizational failure about it. So many vectors that led to failure at multiple levels.

[SparzWizard]

Wow, it's just one day and I've heard so much about the fallout of the Boston Celtics.

1. Irving publicly and privately giving signals that he's long gone.
2. Horford on his way out the door for a better contract elsewhere, who supposedly tampered.
3. Gordon Hayward and the favoritism flowing around the team.

I have never seen a Celtics team this dysfunctional until now. Crazy.

[Never Nervous Pervis]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

[RJ87]

This is silly. Trying to get an all star player back in form is not favoritism, it's common sense.

This.  If these players couldn’t understand the reason for the strategy, then we had a stupid team.

I mean... when there are egos in the mix + big money contracts at stake, I don't know if you can expect guys to be rational. Especially younger guys who haven't cashed in on the big money deal yet. I don't particularly care for Rozier, but he's a guy on a rookie deal being asked to sacrifice in his contract year for a guy who already has the big max contract. That's a tough spot to be in, especially when the maturity level isn't quite high yet.

[SparzWizard]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

Yep, he definitely and sadly did. Hopefully he's learned and we surround him with a better assistant group

Or maybe it's time for a new face, voice, and direction on this team.

[RJ87]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

This is interesting to me. Usually college coaches enter the NBA and try to bring that same control and discipline over every little detail, and it alienates modern players. Brad did the opposite; he treated guys like professionals and it's not only been successful, it was universally praised across the league by coaches, executives and players alike. He was the boy genius. Now he's being criticized for not being more of a general.

I'm not saying you're wrong; it's just interesting.

But that's my point. You can't just assume what worked with one mix of players is going to work with a different mix of players. Some lockerrooms can police themselves while others can't. It's up to the coach - especially one dubbed boy genius - to understand and manage his team.

[pp34isthe1]

This is silly. Trying to get an all star player back in form is not favoritism, it's common sense.

This.  If these players couldn’t understand the reason for the strategy, then we had a stupid team.

I mean... when there are egos in the mix + big money contracts at stake, I don't know if you can expect guys to be rational. Especially younger guys who haven't cashed in on the big money deal yet. I don't particularly care for Rozier, but he's a guy on a rookie deal being asked to sacrifice in his contract year for a guy who already has the big max contract. That's a tough spot to be in, especially when the maturity level isn't quite high yet.

Agreed. But I don’t see any level of maturity that would keep someone from speaking out with millions of dollars on the line.

I don’t blame any of the young guys. It’s unfortunate but the team was better without Gordon in the rotation 

[pp34isthe1]

I also think it grew due to some delusions of grandeur from some of our guys, chiefly Rozier

I don't think it was even just Rozier, honestly. I could see Brown having issues - especially as Brad's had a short hook with him when he made mistakes. Same with Tatum. They're not entirely justified, but you can see how Gordon may have been viewed as the coach's pet.

Yeah, this is where I was going with the post I just made! Too many players thought they were due more than they were given

I think it was compounded by Brad's "hands off" coaching. There were reports right after the season ended that Brad generally let players police themselves and he tried to step in too late. This was the season where Brad really needed to adjust his coaching style to manage personalities and expectations in a way he hasn't before. He failed at it.

Yep, he definitely and sadly did. Hopefully he's learned and we surround him with a better assistant group

Or maybe it's time for a new face, voice, and direction on this team.

New front office as well

[ObjectivityOverBias]

This is silly. Trying to get an all star player back in form is not favoritism, it's common sense.

Agreed

This "Favoritism" mindset is preschool. Gordon is more proven, no harm in trying to get him going to be honest. Him & Al are the most proven guys on your team outside of Kyrie.

[CelticsElite]

They're trying to make this into a doc rivers/ Austin rivers thing lol

[ozgod]

This is silly. Trying to get an all star player back in form is not favoritism, it's common sense.

This.  If these players couldn’t understand the reason for the strategy, then we had a stupid team.

I mean... when there are egos in the mix + big money contracts at stake, I don't know if you can expect guys to be rational. Especially younger guys who haven't cashed in on the big money deal yet. I don't particularly care for Rozier, but he's a guy on a rookie deal being asked to sacrifice in his contract year for a guy who already has the big max contract. That's a tough spot to be in, especially when the maturity level isn't quite high yet.

Agreed. But I don’t see any level of maturity that would keep someone from speaking out with millions of dollars on the line.

I don’t blame any of the young guys. It’s unfortunate but the team was better without Gordon in the rotation

As Paul Pierce said, it's hard for young players to sacrifice. They haven't made it yet. They're trying to carve out careers and get paid. As Terry said in his burn-the-bridges interviews with ESPN, there's guys who've got paid and guys trying to get paid, and clearly they resented a guy who had got paid taking minutes away from them.

I'm not willing to give them a free pass, you want players to be selfless and put the team first no matter what age they are, but it's understandable if you're talking about immature kids with high expectations and elevated opinions of themselves. Not acceptable but understandable. The onus was really on Brad and the team leaders - Kyrie, Al, Marcus Smart - to try and enforce discipline and build togetherness in the locker room. And ultimately, Danny has command responsibility, when it became obvious it was a poisonous locker room (I'm sure they knew much more than we did internally) then moves probably needed to be made, but he wanted to hold on to his assets for the ill fated attempt to get AD. And they all failed dismally and now Kyrie and Al are most likely gone.

[RPGenerate]

If all of the young guys really felt like that, then maybe they should have proven Brad wrong and played well. Rozier was trash the entire season, Brown started off horribly, and Tatum was lukewarm the whole year. All this year told me was that all these guys are mentally weak.

[RPGenerate]

This is silly. Trying to get an all star player back in form is not favoritism, it's common sense.

This.  If these players couldn’t understand the reason for the strategy, then we had a stupid team.

I mean... when there are egos in the mix + big money contracts at stake, I don't know if you can expect guys to be rational. Especially younger guys who haven't cashed in on the big money deal yet. I don't particularly care for Rozier, but he's a guy on a rookie deal being asked to sacrifice in his contract year for a guy who already has the big max contract. That's a tough spot to be in, especially when the maturity level isn't quite high yet.

Agreed. But I don’t see any level of maturity that would keep someone from speaking out with millions of dollars on the line.

I don’t blame any of the young guys. It’s unfortunate but the team was better without Gordon in the rotation

As Paul Pierce said, it's hard for young players to sacrifice. They haven't made it yet. They're trying to carve out careers and get paid. As Terry said in his burn-the-bridges interviews with ESPN, there's guys who've got paid and guys trying to get paid, and clearly they resented a guy who had got paid taking minutes away from them.

I'm not willing to give them a free pass, you want players to be selfless and put the team first no matter what age they are, but it's understandable if you're talking about immature kids with high expectations and elevated opinions of themselves. The onus was really on Brad and the team leaders - Kyrie, Al, Marcus Smart - to try and enforce discipline and build togetherness in the locker room. And ultimately, Danny has command responsibility, when it became obvious it was a poisonous locker room (I'm sure they knew much more than we did internally) then moves probably needed to be made, but he wanted to hold on to his assets for the ill fated attempt to get AD. And they all failed dismally and now Kyrie and Al are most likely gone.

The ironic thing is that Rozier probably costed himself millions of dollars trying to "get paid", rather than being a team player.