Author Topic: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)  (Read 22269 times)

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Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #120 on: March 24, 2016, 08:40:36 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.


It may be that the way Stevens is using Smart is indicative of how they view his skill and potential as a play maker.

In the last few games, with Evan now in the starting lineup due to Crowder's injury, Rozier has been added to the bench lineup (along with Smart) that carries the floor from the end of the 1st period into the middle of the 2nd.  It is very noticeable that Stevens seems to want Rozier to be the primary ball-handler in that configuration.

Since the beginning of March, in configurations with both Rozier and Smart on the floor, but without either Isaiah or Evan, Rozier has assisted 50% of his teammates' FGA, whereas Smart has assisted a tiny 7%.  Even Avery, who has been also on the floor in that configuration for most of the minutes, has an AST% of 22%.    In this configuration, Rozier is averaging 11.3 assists per 100 possessions, compared to just 1.4 for Smart. 

Smart _is_ being used as a finisher in this configuration, with reasonably high USG% of 24.3%.  Unfortunately, his eFG (26.3%) and TS (also 26.3%) have both been terrible in this setup.  That's despite taking 47% of his shots within 9 feet.

This is not, overall, a very large sample.  It could just be something that Stevens is trying out.   But it's something to note and keep an eye on.   

Basically, it is an open question whether the team really views Marcus as a 'point guard'.
Smart is a shooting guard by heart. With now three good ball handlers his future is at shooting guard. Hopefully that is all he does this summer is work on his stroke. If Jason Kidd can do it. He can too. I hope he plays SG for the rest of his career.



If he plays shooting guard the rest of his career, he'll be a back up the rest of his career.

Jason Kidd had strong point guard skills, and a very high basketball IQ. His outside shooting improved a little, but it didn't get him any extra minutes because of it. That's for sure.
Kidd approved greatly and his team beacme winners. Smart needs to do the same. Smart has a work ethic to become the shooter and passer too.
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Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #121 on: March 24, 2016, 09:59:57 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If Jason Kidd can do it. He can too.
...
Jason Kidd's ability to shoot a 3 has nothing to do with what Smart can one day do. That isn't how human bodies and learning work.


Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #122 on: March 24, 2016, 10:37:14 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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The main point is that Smart wouldn't be getting critcized as much if he wasn't the sixth pick overall. Unfortunately, the Celtics were banking on him to be an all star. However, he still has the potential to be a great role player. He just needs to improve his shot. However, I can't imagine him ever being an all star now.
Frankly, I think being the sixth pick is actually helping him but I don't think he would be playing much if he were a later pick.  I am thinking the coach and front office will give him every chance to prove his worth.

Ridiculous.
He one of the worst offensive players in the league.  He's getting chances because he was a high pick the same way the rookies are not getting chances (until roziers recent run). 

Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #123 on: March 24, 2016, 10:54:18 PM »

Offline jambr380

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The main point is that Smart wouldn't be getting critcized as much if he wasn't the sixth pick overall. Unfortunately, the Celtics were banking on him to be an all star. However, he still has the potential to be a great role player. He just needs to improve his shot. However, I can't imagine him ever being an all star now.
Frankly, I think being the sixth pick is actually helping him but I don't think he would be playing much if he were a later pick.  I am thinking the coach and front office will give him every chance to prove his worth.

Ridiculous.
He one of the worst offensive players in the league.  He's getting chances because he was a high pick the same way the rookies are not getting chances (until roziers recent run).

But he was a high pick because of his elite defense and potential to develop on offense. He's getting chances because he defense is as advertised and the team plays better with him on the floor. He absolutely needs to improve his offense - like in all aspects - but he is still a very useful player and is much better with Crowder not in street clothes.

Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread
« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2016, 11:54:50 PM »

Offline action781

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People forget how down everyone was on Avery Bradley his first couple of years in the league, and he showed a lot less than Smart has up to this point.
That's your attempt at humor, right? Bradley only beat Ray Allen for a spot in the starting lineup and chased him out of town in his second season. Smart has "shown" that he's a one-trick pony that belongs firmly on the bench so far. So there's that.
And then AB regressed back in his 3rd season to a 11.6 points per 36 scorer at a terrible 46% TS who got owned and embarrassed by a washed up Raymond Felton in round 1 of the playoffs.

People in celtics nation and beyond were extremely down on AB at this point in his career for sure.
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Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #125 on: March 25, 2016, 12:18:30 AM »

Offline tankcity!

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Of course the haters are out thick during a Smart rough patch.

Yes, he's undeniably going through a rough patch right now. However, what else do you expect when he's having to play a role on this team that he's not, i.e. a 3-and-D off-ball swingman. It's no coincidence that he's going through a rough patch with Crowder out when he almost exclusively always plays with two other ball-handlers on the floor with him  - IT, Turner, and Rozier.

If we don't plan on truly developing the kid, then we might as well use him in a trade for Boogie.

I don't understand why you continue to blame the Celtics for his lack of progress. You have no evidence that the Celtics are holding him back at all. Last night for example, he was driving to the hoop and missing. I've also seen Smart run the P n R plenty of times. It is clear to me IMO that he prefers to shoot outside and it is not the coach. He doesn't have a good first step. His ball handling isn't tight enough as well to be a primary P N R ballhandler.

Like I said, if you're going to blame the Celtics, please have some proof because it feels like we are watching completely different games. For god sakes Bradley is better inside than Smart. Bradley has actually been attacking the paint these last few games. Is that because Stevens has allowed him too? Like think about what you are saying dude. Also, Rozier gets to the paint all the time as well. Stop blaming the team for Smart's development. It's seriously lame. If you think he is going to be a good player, that is fine. But it will be Smart's fault if he isn't, not the teams. No excuses.

Reason over emotion is always a better starting point for an argument. Just a tip for you.

I provided proof in the fact that since Crowder has been out, Smart has almost exclusively played with two other ball-handlers on the floor in Turner and IT, Turner and Rozier, or Rozier and IT. When they're all out there together, Smart handles the ball the last amount of time, and the other two ball-handlers almost exclusively do the ball-handling. These are obvious facts that can't be disputed.

So then tell me how Smart, who has always played point guard with ball-handling responsibilities his entire basketball career, is supposed to succeed in that type of system that doesn't utilize him to his strengths but forces him to do things that he's not great at? How is he supposed to flourish in a system that plays him out of position, expects him to primarily be a spot-up shooter, and hardly gives him any ball-handling responsibilities when he's shown he's a capable distributor and initiator of the offense? Go ahead - I'll wait.

Oh, and let's finally dispel this whole notion of Smart not driving and attacking the rim anymore. That was a legitimate criticism last year, but he routinely penetrates into the lane every game this year with regularity. I'd say he penetrates at least five to six times a game anymore, which is quite a bit given that he hardly ever has the ball in his hands. Granted, he's not been finishing those looks for several reasons, such as taking off too early and not getting the benefit of the doubt from the officials, but this whole notion that he doesn't attack the basket is not based in reality anymore.

How am I emotional? Lol. You are the one who has never once criticized smart or held him accountable as a player. I don't understand why you had to go there. This is a debate.

Second, I just don't see what you are seeing. He doesn't have point guard skills. And he actually played shooting guard in college his freshman and then switched to point guard his sophomore year, unless I have my story mixed...so I don't get the him being a point guard his whole life comment. Nor does it matter because rozier is clearly better at him regarding point guard skills. You say smart gets to the paint which I agree he does at times, but not all the time. All I really see is excuses for this player. Nothing is his fault. I really hope smart becomes good, but the reason they have to play him with ball handlers is because those guys are better at handling the ball and running the offense. IMO smart can't run the offense from what I've seen. It seems like a struggle for him to get past his defender. He does at times, but other times he gets closed out.

Only time will tell what Smart turns into, but I would be careful. Remember how much people loved rondo? You don't want to be one of those people. If you really think smart will be good, then that's fine, but I don't see an all star. And it is troubling that rozier is already better than him at running the offense.

Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #126 on: March 25, 2016, 01:32:16 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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Only time will tell what Smart turns into, but I would be careful. Remember how much people loved rondo? You don't want to be one of those people.

What's wrong with being "one of those people."  I'm one of those people.
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Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread (Bob Ryan comments)
« Reply #127 on: March 25, 2016, 03:40:56 AM »

Offline byennie

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I understand advanced stats are controversial, especially when +/- is involved, but one look at this gives a pretty good idea of what the Celtics probably believe about Smart:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/marcus-smart/

Punch in some recent projects, for example Randle, Wiggins, Towns, Gordon, Parker, and you'll find some interesting results. Heck, look up any player from the last 3 drafts and see how many project higher. Hint: none.

It might not be a perfect measure, but it definitely flies in the face of the harsh critics.

Re: Yet another dissapointment in Marcus Smart thread
« Reply #128 on: March 25, 2016, 06:36:17 AM »

Offline greece66

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