Jackie Mac on Zach Lowe Podcast

[RJ87]

The Kyrie stuff is nothing new and for those that hate Kyrie, it's good ammo and for those that like Kyrie, its good justification for some of his desire to now waffle about coming back. Again, nothing new.

But, they mentioned it was concerning that Tatum plateaued this year. Was that concern Jackie's or is that something she heard from people associated with the Celtics?

I also see that more and more of the media are looking at Jaylen as possibly being the more valuable player between he and Jayson.

Jaylen struggled early but regrouped and grew his game for the 3rd straight year showing he can play a role, as well as being a top offensive option(he did this last year when he stepped up after Hayward and Kyrie went down). Jaylen has also shown that he is a playoff warrior. That is hard to find in 21 and 22 year olds.

Meanwhile, Tatum some steps backwards this year, looks about the same or worse than last year, and has shown he may not have quite the ceiling many were saying he had last year. He has been disappointing for a bunch of these playoff games. And, worst of all, his defense fell to the point that Kyrie has looked like the better defender for most of the year, certainly in these playoffs.

I actually just watched Jackie's appearance on The Jump and she flat out says that the team was unhappy with Tatum's mindset coming into this season and "he's been a problem for months". Interesting.

That is 100 percent him working with Kobe Bryant. Kobe absolutely killed Tatum. Couple that with the trade rumors that he would be moved for AD and you have the current state of Tatum.

Kobe worked with Tatum for a week. I'm not a fan of Kobe either, but he didn't effect Tatum that much that quickly. I said at the beginning of the season that everyone needed to relax on labeling Tatum a star as he just hadn't earned it yet and I think that was the problem. SO MUCH HYPE after the playoffs last year and I think the young guys (primarily Rozier and Tatum) really let it get in their heads.

I know everyone wants to blame Kyrie (and he deserves blame for sure) but it seems like there were a lot of cracks in that locker room from the beginning of the season.

[Donoghus]

To me, it seemed like Tatum got caught up in his rookie success and just didn't work hard enough to improve upon it.  It seemed like he had the mindset that since he succeeded so well last year that he could just coast into this season and expect the same.

The problem is that he developed bad habits, didn't seem to improve his game in the offseason, and the league came around to figuring him out better.

Now the onus is on him.  He clearly has the potential to be a star. The question is whether he'll put in all the hard work and develop the mindset to achieve that. 

[Fafnir]

Tatum clearly thought he was going to be given/earn a bigger role in the offense with ball.

I actually think he bounced back decently later in the year and has improved as a passer as well. But I understand why people are disappointed in him. I also think the fact that he knew he might be heading out the door from AD had an effect on him, even if he didn't mind having his own team that would make it harder to buy into what Brad/Ainge are telling him.

[RMO]

The Kyrie stuff is nothing new and for those that hate Kyrie, it's good ammo and for those that like Kyrie, its good justification for some of his desire to now waffle about coming back. Again, nothing new.

But, they mentioned it was concerning that Tatum plateaued this year. Was that concern Jackie's or is that something she heard from people associated with the Celtics?

I also see that more and more of the media are looking at Jaylen as possibly being the more valuable player between he and Jayson.

Jaylen struggled early but regrouped and grew his game for the 3rd straight year showing he can play a role, as well as being a top offensive option(he did this last year when he stepped up after Hayward and Kyrie went down). Jaylen has also shown that he is a playoff warrior. That is hard to find in 21 and 22 year olds.

Meanwhile, Tatum some steps backwards this year, looks about the same or worse than last year, and has shown he may not have quite the ceiling many were saying he had last year. He has been disappointing for a bunch of these playoff games. And, worst of all, his defense fell to the point that Kyrie has looked like the better defender for most of the year, certainly in these playoffs.

I actually just watched Jackie's appearance on The Jump and she flat out says that the team was unhappy with Tatum's mindset coming into this season and "he's been a problem for months". Interesting.

That is 100 percent him working with Kobe Bryant. Kobe absolutely killed Tatum. Couple that with the trade rumors that he would be moved for AD and you have the current state of Tatum.

Kobe worked with Tatum for a week. I'm not a fan of Kobe either, but he didn't effect Tatum that much that quickly. I said at the beginning of the season that everyone needed to relax on labeling Tatum a star as he just hadn't earned it yet and I think that was the problem. SO MUCH HYPE after the playoffs last year and I think the young guys (primarily Rozier and Tatum) really let it get in their heads.

I know everyone wants to blame Kyrie (and he deserves blame for sure) but it seems like there were a lot of cracks in that locker room from the beginning of the season.

Tatum's struggles aren't all that uncommon for second year players of his caliber.  It's called the sophmore slump.  No one knows much about you your rookie year and don't really adapt for the few times they play you throughout the season.  In the second year they've figured out more how to play against them, game plan and it's up to the player to figure it out on their end.

The big difference is these kind of players are rarely on good teams who in the beginning of the season were expected to compete for a title.  Third picks who contribute right away are usually on bad teams and are able to figure it out without being under the microscope for nationally televised games and the playoffs.

[celticinorlando]

Tatum stopped doing what made him successful as a rookie. He began to go to that step back fall away jumper time and time again.

Tatum should be a guy that gets to the FT line 10 times a game. He just settled so much this year. And the trade rumors really made him check out IMO.

[Fafnir]

Tatum should be a guy that gets to the FT line 10 times a game. He just settled so much this year. And the trade rumors really made him check out IMO.

How many players do you think average 10 FTA a game in the NBA? 

There are only TWO, Harden/Embiid. Both manage that due to being able to overpower in isolatation and draw contact. (and are MVP level players) Tatum struggles to blow by his man at times and finish through contact.

I do agree he should try to attack the rim and get to the line more but the whole 10 FTA game expectation is nonsense. Doubly nonsense when his usage is below 30.

[celticinorlando]

Tatum should be a guy that gets to the FT line 10 times a game. He just settled so much this year. And the trade rumors really made him check out IMO.

How many players do you think average 10 FTA a game in the NBA? 

There are only TWO, Harden/Embiid. Both manage that due to being able to overpower in isolatation and draw contact. (and are MVP level players) Tatum struggles to blow by his man at times and finish through contact.

I do agree he should try to attack the rim and get to the line more but the whole 10 FTA game expectation is nonsense. Doubly nonsense when his usage is below 30.

My point being is he settles for his offense. He needs to get to the rim.

[Fafnir]

Tatum should be a guy that gets to the FT line 10 times a game. He just settled so much this year. And the trade rumors really made him check out IMO.

How many players do you think average 10 FTA a game in the NBA? 

There are only TWO, Harden/Embiid. Both manage that due to being able to overpower in isolatation and draw contact. (and are MVP level players) Tatum struggles to blow by his man at times and finish through contact.

I do agree he should try to attack the rim and get to the line more but the whole 10 FTA game expectation is nonsense. Doubly nonsense when his usage is below 30.

My point being is he settles for his offense. He needs to get to the rim.

Why didn't you say that?

The way you framed it reveals you have ridiculously out sized expectations that Tatum was never going to meet. Tatum is never going to get more FTAs than Giannis, that's not his game.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

I have to admit, but all of these points seem very reasonable and true.

This is doing to be a WILD summer in the NBA, and that is true for us as well.

just pray it is not a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ml3nyww80

[nickagneta]

I think Danny & Co are right --- if they dont' trade for AD at the draft they're not going to get the chance to do so later.

The plan has to be to trade for AD at the draft and then re-sign Kyrie.

If we don't hear much about the Celts trying to trade for AD at the draft, that's our signal that Kyrie has not given them the assurances they need.

Shouldn’t the plan be to trade for AD no matter what? I don’t see how Kyrie’s decision would affect that.

We need Kyrie to sign here or elsewhere before we trade for him plus without Kyrie, AD won’t resign here.

This is technically untrue. We can not trade for Davis so long as Kyrie is still on his current contract. Kyrie will need to opt out of his contract before an Anthony Davis trade can be consummated.

Consummated being the key word. Kyrie has to opt out of his last year before June 29th. But, a Davis deal can be agreed upon before the draft, Ainge select players that the Pelicans want, and the trade will be completed later that summer after Kyrie opts out.

So, really, anything is possible and the timing of things will be in flux

[RJ87]

I think Danny & Co are right --- if they dont' trade for AD at the draft they're not going to get the chance to do so later.

The plan has to be to trade for AD at the draft and then re-sign Kyrie.

If we don't hear much about the Celts trying to trade for AD at the draft, that's our signal that Kyrie has not given them the assurances they need.

Shouldn’t the plan be to trade for AD no matter what? I don’t see how Kyrie’s decision would affect that.

We need Kyrie to sign here or elsewhere before we trade for him plus without Kyrie, AD won’t resign here.

This is technically untrue. We can not trade for Davis so long as Kyrie is still on his current contract. Kyrie will need to opt out of his contract before an Anthony Davis trade can be consummated.

Consummated being the key word. Kyrie has to opt out of his last year before June 29th. But, a Davis deal can be agreed upon before the draft, Ainge select players that the Pelicans want, and the trade will be completed later that summer after Kyrie opts out.

So, really, anything is possible and the timing of things will be in flux

His opt out date is actually June 13th according to Keith Smith.

[nickagneta]

These reports coming out about Rozier's attitude that sucked all year and now the team not being happy with Tatum makes you wonder about how much fans really think they know.

Brown spoke out against Kyrie. Brown was the player getting lectured by others publicly on the court. Brown struggled hard at the beginning of the season. Brown was accused of having low BBIQ. Brown was benched.

For a good part of the season it appeared to fans like Brown was a problem. Come the end of the year, now that stuff is leaking out, it appears Rozier and Tatum were the problem, that Brown appears to be the player with the highest BBIQ and that Brown has grown his game and was one of the team's two best playoff performers. Brown was playing the best basketball of his career the last 2 1/2 months


Meanwhile Tatum and Rozier regressed or plateaued and were weak to bad playoff performers. They sound like they were a problem in the locker room and yet, we never heard anything about the team having concerns or problems with them until now.

Rozier is gone. And if some of these reports are any indication, the team will be more than happy to keep Brown in a trade for Davis and send Tatum out.

[nickagneta]

I think Danny & Co are right --- if they dont' trade for AD at the draft they're not going to get the chance to do so later.

The plan has to be to trade for AD at the draft and then re-sign Kyrie.

If we don't hear much about the Celts trying to trade for AD at the draft, that's our signal that Kyrie has not given them the assurances they need.

Shouldn’t the plan be to trade for AD no matter what? I don’t see how Kyrie’s decision would affect that.

We need Kyrie to sign here or elsewhere before we trade for him plus without Kyrie, AD won’t resign here.

This is technically untrue. We can not trade for Davis so long as Kyrie is still on his current contract. Kyrie will need to opt out of his contract before an Anthony Davis trade can be consummated.

Consummated being the key word. Kyrie has to opt out of his last year before June 29th. But, a Davis deal can be agreed upon before the draft, Ainge select players that the Pelicans want, and the trade will be completed later that summer after Kyrie opts out.

So, really, anything is possible and the timing of things will be in flux

His opt out date is actually June 13th according to Keith Smith.

How is that possible? The NBA Finals have the possibility of going all the way until June 16th. If Boston was still playing and went to a games 6 and 7 on June 13th and 16th, Kyrie would have to opt out during the Finals and be ineligible to play those last two games.

That can't be right. The CBA date is June 29th.

[Monkhouse]

These reports coming out about Rozier's attitude that sucked all year and now the team not being happy with Tatum makes you wonder about how much fans really think they know.

Brown spoke out against Kyrie. Brown was the player getting lectured by others publicly on the court. Brown struggled hard at the beginning of the season. Brown was accused of having low BBIQ. Brown was benched.

For a good part of the season it appeared to fans like Brown was a problem. Come the end of the year, now that stuff is leaking out, it appears Rozier and Tatum were the problem, that Brown appears to be the player with the highest BBIQ and that Brown has grown his game and was one of the team's two best playoff performers. Brown was playing the best basketball of his career the last 2 1/2 months


Meanwhile Tatum and Rozier regressed or plateaued and were weak to bad playoff performers. They sound like they were a problem in the locker room and yet, we never heard anything about the team having concerns or problems with them until now.

Rozier is gone. And if some of these reports are any indication, the team will be more than happy to keep Brown in a trade for Davis and send Tatum out.

I agree, going to quote what I wrote in another thread.

Yeah I simply don't understand the Kyrie detractors... Yes, was he a prima donna? Check. Did he take reckless dumb shots, especially that heavily contested stepback fadeaway on Giannis at the left side? Check. Was he on and off with media, and hinting at his displeasure at how the team was, and not stepping up as a leader? Check.

But he's a top 25 player, that hasn't even eclipsed his prime... Also we would have his bird rights, which means we can go over the cap, and re-sign, and trade him later on in the future... There is NO point in letting Kyrie just walk away for nothing...

That being said, I'm just befuddled as to what really happened... I'm sure we will find out more information in the future about why the downfall of our team, and our chemistry fluctuated. But Kyrie wasn't like this last year... This is why I'm so confused. I have to believe the usual suspects were probably Tatum, (his comments saying that he thinks he could be the 'man,' in NOP,) Rozier for his disparaging commentary regarding his 'role.' And finally Morris who said he wasn't happy about his role, and believed he should be starting.

I just don't get it. I really think making ECF last year might've been the worst thing for our young players... Instead of working hard to build on their weaknesses, they took it as, "let me just chuck the most 3's," and hope everything falls into place.

Anyways, getting back on topic, I'm okay with Bradley Beal, but at what cost?

Not giving up Tatum or Brown for him, Beal is a great player, and All-star, but if I'm giving up Tatum or Brown, I'm expecting someone that can momentously change the tide of the game. Is Beal that type of player?

I think Rozier took his coming off bench as an insult. (As if he's better than Smart, Brown, or Hayward.) Scary Terry really got to his head.

And I think Tatum was convinced he was a superstar in the making. Lazy defense this year, stayed away from spot up/catch and shoot 3's, and generally just took awful shots. His shot selection was not only terrible, but he refused to drive for contact/FTA's. I think sophomore slump, trade rumors, and him claiming that he could be the go to guy or 'man,' at NOP messed him up.

[Fafnir]

I think Danny & Co are right --- if they dont' trade for AD at the draft they're not going to get the chance to do so later.

The plan has to be to trade for AD at the draft and then re-sign Kyrie.

If we don't hear much about the Celts trying to trade for AD at the draft, that's our signal that Kyrie has not given them the assurances they need.

Shouldn’t the plan be to trade for AD no matter what? I don’t see how Kyrie’s decision would affect that.

We need Kyrie to sign here or elsewhere before we trade for him plus without Kyrie, AD won’t resign here.

This is technically untrue. We can not trade for Davis so long as Kyrie is still on his current contract. Kyrie will need to opt out of his contract before an Anthony Davis trade can be consummated.

Consummated being the key word. Kyrie has to opt out of his last year before June 29th. But, a Davis deal can be agreed upon before the draft, Ainge select players that the Pelicans want, and the trade will be completed later that summer after Kyrie opts out.

So, really, anything is possible and the timing of things will be in flux

His opt out date is actually June 13th according to Keith Smith.

How is that possible? The NBA Finals have the possibility of going all the way until June 16th. If Boston was still playing and went to a games 6 and 7 on June 13th and 16th, Kyrie would have to opt out during the Finals and be ineligible to play those last two games.

That can't be right. The CBA date is June 29th.

He's opting out of next year's contract not his current years.