The Kyrie Irving free agency thread(to sign 4yr/$141M w/Nets page 105)

[mmmmm]

I’d say it fairly unlikely the Cs sniff anything close to 50 wins next year with no Irving. Irving will likely have trickle down effects on the roster (Horford/Morris likely gone as a result). Cs will likely be a lower playoff seed/borderline playoff team.

I don't think it's the case that Horford is likely to be gone if Kyrie doesn't return.

Perhaps 50 wins is unlikely but I think mid-to-high 40s is entirely possible.

Yah, I'm just not seeing that (Horford leaves if Kyrie leaves) as all that tightly connected.   I won't assert that he's a lock to stay, but I think Horford is far more likely to re-sign with the Cs than not, whether Kyrie stays or not.

I do agree with the premise that IF Horford leaves, then it will be VERY hard for the C's to make the playoffs.

But my assumption is that he's staying.  And I'm also pretty bullish on Hayward recovering effectively all the way to 'Utah Gordon'.  And I'm extremely high on both Brown and Tatum continuing to elevate their game with increased responsibility. 

A core of Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Smart is a playoff core.   Whether they are a contender will depend on what additional parts are there.

[philr13]

I’d say it fairly unlikely the Cs sniff anything close to 50 wins next year with no Irving. Irving will likely have trickle down effects on the roster (Horford/Morris likely gone as a result). Cs will likely be a lower playoff seed/borderline playoff team.

I don't think it's the case that Horford is likely to be gone if Kyrie doesn't return.

Perhaps 50 wins is unlikely but I think mid-to-high 40s is entirely possible.

Yah, I'm just not seeing that (Horford leaves if Kyrie leaves) as all that tightly connected.   I won't assert that he's a lock to stay, but I think Horford is far more likely to re-sign with the Cs than not, whether Kyrie stays or not.

I do agree with the premise that IF Horford leaves, then it will be VERY hard for the C's to make the playoffs.

But my assumption is that he's staying.  And I'm also pretty bullish on Hayward recovering effectively all the way to 'Utah Gordon'.  And I'm extremely high on both Brown and Tatum continuing to elevate their game with increased responsibility. 

A core of Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Smart is a playoff core.   Whether they are a contender will depend on what additional parts are there.

Could be that Kyrie leaving might make Horford and Morris want to stay. Kyrie wasn't the whole team. Add a vet point guard and a shooter and it's a new season.

[tenn_smoothie]

I’d say it fairly unlikely the Cs sniff anything close to 50 wins next year with no Irving. Irving will likely have trickle down effects on the roster (Horford/Morris likely gone as a result). Cs will likely be a lower playoff seed/borderline playoff team.

I don't think it's the case that Horford is likely to be gone if Kyrie doesn't return.

Perhaps 50 wins is unlikely but I think mid-to-high 40s is entirely possible.

Yah, I'm just not seeing that (Horford leaves if Kyrie leaves) as all that tightly connected.   I won't assert that he's a lock to stay, but I think Horford is far more likely to re-sign with the Cs than not, whether Kyrie stays or not.

I do agree with the premise that IF Horford leaves, then it will be VERY hard for the C's to make the playoffs.

But my assumption is that he's staying.  And I'm also pretty bullish on Hayward recovering effectively all the way to 'Utah Gordon'.  And I'm extremely high on both Brown and Tatum continuing to elevate their game with increased responsibility. 

A core of Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Smart is a playoff core.   Whether they are a contender will depend on what additional parts are there.

Could be that Kyrie leaving might make Horford and Morris want to stay. Kyrie wasn't the whole team. Add a vet point guard and a shooter and it's a new season.

Huh ? I have to think, deep down, that Horford did not care for Irving's negative effects on the team, whether on-court playing style or off-court drama. Horford has always been a total team oriented player, college and pros. And, btw, we did not get to 50 wins this season, so I don't see some big drop off. More likely an improvement.

Add a vet PLAYMAKER point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic big and go from there. I fully believe that our Big 3 Wings (the two J's plus Hayward) will flourish within a ball-movement, team-oriented offense. We need to get bigger and more athletic inside, so adding there and hopefully having Williams develop will strengthen our defense and rebounding. I would be very excited to see this group have a chance to gel as a unit - you would see some beautiful basketball.

[SparzWizard]

I think plan B is turning into plan A...stay young, keep Al, hope Hayward returns to form, trade for a PG. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Ainge keeps Rozier.

So originally what this team had planned in July 2017- IT4/Hayward/Horford. But IT4 happened and needed a replacement, enter Kyrie Irving.

But now you're talking two years later, with a very powerful eastern conference. If you told me that our Big 3 was Isaiah Thomas, Gordon Hayward, and Al Horford two years ago, I'd thought we'd have a shot at the Finals and even had us beating the Cavs in a 7 game series. Now? This young Celtics team (with any PG lesser than Kyrie Irving) would get steamrolled in the East because Kawhi Leonard/Pascal Siakam/Fred VanFleet, Embiid/Simmons/Butler/Harris, and Giannis/Middleton/Brogdon are top-heavy foes.

[LilRip]

I’d say it fairly unlikely the Cs sniff anything close to 50 wins next year with no Irving. Irving will likely have trickle down effects on the roster (Horford/Morris likely gone as a result). Cs will likely be a lower playoff seed/borderline playoff team.

I don't think it's the case that Horford is likely to be gone if Kyrie doesn't return.

Perhaps 50 wins is unlikely but I think mid-to-high 40s is entirely possible.

Yah, I'm just not seeing that (Horford leaves if Kyrie leaves) as all that tightly connected.   I won't assert that he's a lock to stay, but I think Horford is far more likely to re-sign with the Cs than not, whether Kyrie stays or not.

I do agree with the premise that IF Horford leaves, then it will be VERY hard for the C's to make the playoffs.

But my assumption is that he's staying.  And I'm also pretty bullish on Hayward recovering effectively all the way to 'Utah Gordon'.  And I'm extremely high on both Brown and Tatum continuing to elevate their game with increased responsibility. 

A core of Horford, Hayward, Brown, Tatum and Smart is a playoff core.   Whether they are a contender will depend on what additional parts are there.

I don’t get it. What other additional parts can you add that will make them a contender? Unless of course, you’re talking about adding better players as “additional parts” like a KD.

Adding a Rubio or a Beverly (2 great role players imo and great acquisitions at the MLE) won’t make that team a contender. Playoff core, definitely. But contender? I don’t see it. At least not for 2-3 years, assuming Tatum makes the leap.

[SHAQATTACK]

i ll need to get LP next year to see Celtics , no stars =no major network games , buried at the bottom of NBA.

Struggle with Hornets , Heat for 7-8 seed  first round exit and 10 th lottery pick .

[jambr380]

Huh ? I have to think, deep down, that Horford did not care for Irving's negative effects on the team, whether on-court playing style or off-court drama. Horford has always been a total team oriented player, college and pros. And, btw, we did not get to 50 wins this season, so I don't see some big drop off. More likely an improvement.

Add a vet PLAYMAKER point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic big and go from there. I fully believe that our Big 3 Wings (the two J's plus Hayward) will flourish within a ball-movement, team-oriented offense. We need to get bigger and more athletic inside, so adding there and hopefully having Williams develop will strengthen our defense and rebounding. I would be very excited to see this group have a chance to gel as a unit - you would see some beautiful basketball.

Horford came here because he knew Danny was doing everything he could to build a contender and he wanted to win a championship. While Kyrie may not be everything he is looking for in the personality of a star player, he has to realize that the ceiling of this team is certainly higher with Kyrie than without. Any player like Rubio or Beverly could be signed with or without Kyrie here. Kyrie's salary cannot be replicated, never mind his play.

Getting to 50 wins isn't the goal, it's competing for a championship. I like our young players, but I am not sure why people think our young players are so much more amazing than other teams' young players. Enough so, that those teams don't make the playoffs, but ours will lead us to a ring. Acquiring top-end talent is really the only guarantee to do that and so many people want us to ditch our best player without getting a replacement.

[Birdman]

Forget Kyrie and Davis..keep the team that got us to the ECF..add those 3 draft picks..sign Rubio or Collison..add a veteran big man like Jordan or robin lopez

[philr13]

Huh ? I have to think, deep down, that Horford did not care for Irving's negative effects on the team, whether on-court playing style or off-court drama. Horford has always been a total team oriented player, college and pros. And, btw, we did not get to 50 wins this season, so I don't see some big drop off. More likely an improvement.

Add a vet PLAYMAKER point guard, a knock-down shooter and an athletic big and go from there. I fully believe that our Big 3 Wings (the two J's plus Hayward) will flourish within a ball-movement, team-oriented offense. We need to get bigger and more athletic inside, so adding there and hopefully having Williams develop will strengthen our defense and rebounding. I would be very excited to see this group have a chance to gel as a unit - you would see some beautiful basketball.

Horford came here because he knew Danny was doing everything he could to build a contender and he wanted to win a championship. While Kyrie may not be everything he is looking for in the personality of a star player, he has to realize that the ceiling of this team is certainly higher with Kyrie than without. Any player like Rubio or Beverly could be signed with or without Kyrie here. Kyrie's salary cannot be replicated, never mind his play.

Getting to 50 wins isn't the goal, it's competing for a championship. I like our young players, but I am not sure why people think our young players are so much more amazing than other teams' young players. Enough so, that those teams don't make the playoffs, but ours will lead us to a ring. Acquiring top-end talent is really the only guarantee to do that and so many people want us to ditch our best player without getting a replacement.

I think fans believe that our young players are better than other teams' young players because our young core made a successful push to game 7 of the Eastern Conf Finals last season. Not saying it's a correct assumption, but it's understandable.

The Celtics really have no control over Kyrie's situation. I'm not so sure that Wyc & Co think he's worth a $200M+ investment anyway. The team's ceiling next season might be higher with him, but it might be higher long-term without him.

[Irish Stew]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

[Silky]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

I wouldnt give them Brown I dont think.

I think a deal could be made without him as well.

Irving for Crabbe and #17

#17, #20, Crabbe, Robert Williams 3 for Beal is close to a deal I think.

That would give Washington #9, #17 and #20 in the draft this year

And next year their own probably top 5 pick which will probably be top 10 and then they get Wall back, and have about 60 mill in capspace.

So it would be a bad year, but young guys get to play alot, and team will have alot of asset to load up again next offseason.

Of course it would be hinged on Beal demanding a trade. But I would at least kick the tires.

Smart/Beal/Brown/Horford/Davis would be a contending team imo.

[nickagneta]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

I wouldnt give them Brown I dont think.

I think a deal could be made without him as well.

If Crabbe, filler and picks could land Beal, the Knicks would already have done the deal with Washington in a heartbeat. In any Beal deal with Boston, either Brown or Tatum would need to be included.

[Moranis]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

I wouldnt give them Brown I dont think.

I think a deal could be made without him as well.

If Crabbe, filler and picks could land Beal, the Knicks would already have done the deal with Washington in a heartbeat. In any Beal deal with Boston, either Brown or Tatum would need to be included.

I agree, but I don't see the point in trading for Beal if Irving isn't here.  I suppose if there was still a trade for Davis made, then maybe it makes sense, but Beal seems like a guy you try to get to add to your best player, not when you are losing your best player.

[Sketch5]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

I wouldnt give them Brown I dont think.

I think a deal could be made without him as well.

If Crabbe, filler and picks could land Beal, the Knicks would already have done the deal with Washington in a heartbeat. In any Beal deal with Boston, either Brown or Tatum would need to be included.

I agree, but I don't see the point in trading for Beal if Irving isn't here.  I suppose if there was still a trade for Davis made, then maybe it makes sense, but Beal seems like a guy you try to get to add to your best player, not when you are losing your best player.

I would say Beal replaces Irving for scoring, which is really what the C's will be looking for if Irving bolts.

Tatum and Beal are friends, so you should have good chemistry there. You can start Smart at point, but have Hayward run the offense which he's really good at. We'd be a bit small with Tatum at PF, but a hard cover for a lot of teams, and Smart would be the worst 3pt shooter on the floor, and last year he was decent when he didn't have to just chuck it.

And if you can get Rubio on the cheap, even better for a starting PG and have Smart run the second unit.

[Moranis]

If the option came up,

would you trade Kyrie for Crabbe and pick 17?

Move gets Celtics something in return (nice expiring deal of 18.5 mill that can be used in season for trade) and a pick.

Move gets Brooklyn their guy and still lets them make an offer to Durant with their 38 mill in capspace left.

Irving
Harris
Levert
Durant
Allen

Smart/Wannamaker
Brown/Crabbe
tatum/Hayward
Horford/
Baynes/Williams

and lots of picks and players to shop for moving up. (14,17,20,22)

I think that this is interesting, but maybe it could be altered to a 3-way s&t that could bring us Beal.

Nets get Irving.

Wizards get Crabbe, Jaylen Brown, 14 and 17.

Celtics get Beal.

I wouldnt give them Brown I dont think.

I think a deal could be made without him as well.

If Crabbe, filler and picks could land Beal, the Knicks would already have done the deal with Washington in a heartbeat. In any Beal deal with Boston, either Brown or Tatum would need to be included.

I agree, but I don't see the point in trading for Beal if Irving isn't here.  I suppose if there was still a trade for Davis made, then maybe it makes sense, but Beal seems like a guy you try to get to add to your best player, not when you are losing your best player.

I would say Beal replaces Irving for scoring, which is really what the C's will be looking for if Irving bolts.

Tatum and Beal are friends, so you should have good chemistry there. You can start Smart at point, but have Hayward run the offense which he's really good at. We'd be a bit small with Tatum at PF, but a hard cover for a lot of teams, and Smart would be the worst 3pt shooter on the floor, and last year he was decent when he didn't have to just chuck it.

And if you can get Rubio on the cheap, even better for a starting PG and have Smart run the second unit.

I like Beal, but he isn't making Boston a contender without Irving (he might not with Irving, but at least it is arguable).  No way I give up Brown and 14 for Beal in the scenario where Irving leaves.  Just a waste of a quality asset in Brown for a team that isn't going to reach the next level.  Now if Irving stays, that is a whole other matter, as I would love a Beal/Irving backcourt and would gladly give up Brown and 14 (and salary) to get that done.