Let Kyrie walk, don't go after AD, build around young core

[PhoSita]

  So don't try, that way you'll never be disappointed?

I don't think anybody has said anything of the sort.


Instead, the idea is that we shouldn't abandon every priority or goal in service of obtaining the talent needed to ensure championship contention.

Because if you do that, you might as well just keep your cap sheet clean every summer until an MVP type player happens to be a free agent and try desperately to sign them.  The rest of the time you can just have a revolving door of players and never really commit to any particular core group, because anybody who isn't one of the best 2-3 players in the league is just a potential trade asset.


In other words, I guess, you could be the Knicks.


My feeling is let's build a stable, likable, competitive team with a sustainable core group.  Let's find a formula that works with a culture that prioritizes the right things.  Let's prize organizational coherence and stability.  Let's aim to have a team that is among the best in the league for an extended period of time, and try to catch lightning in a bottle once or twice and hope that results in a championship.

Build organically and in a way you can feel good about at every step of the way, and have faith the result will be what you want.

That's kind of how I interpreted what Brad has been saying ever since he became head coach of the team.  He's always been about trusting that the day to day process of doing things the right way will result in the success we all crave.



Put it another way, I'd rather they try to be the 2001-2011 Dallas Mavericks or the 2004-2010 Phoenix Suns than the 2011-2014 Miami Heat.

[Phantom255x]

Although I personally would prefer keeping Kyrie, adding another veteran PF/C (maybe w/MLE) and NOT dealing for AD... I actually wonder if, as some have mentioned here in the past month, if Ainge and Kyrie are planning this move (a trade for AD). I mean, obviously we have no clue what goes on in closed doors and Ainge does talk with Kyrie a lot.

In a way, that's kind of a scary proposition. It almost feels like Kyrie saying he's only going to stay if AD comes, or he's out, although it's not like that as I outlined.

I honestly have no clue what will happen this summer. I do think how we do in the playoffs could affect that. If we pull off the improbable and win the Finals, then are we still trading for AD? Or if we get bounced out in the first round, does Ainge start to make bigger changes (meaning a bit of an overhaul)?

[pistal47]

I'm more concerned about them winning championships rather than how warm & fuzzy they make me on the inside and plateauing.

Yeah, I get it. 

I just think that if you throw everything else out about team building and only care about trying to win championships, you're not going to enjoy the process it takes to get there, and the whole thing is going to feel like it's only worth it if the team ends up winning a title.

So how did you feel about the 07/08 title? We went all in on a championship and traded young guy + picks to do it. That wasn't an organic, homegrown team. It was championship or bust through and through.

Ya that was a great season and championship but personally, for me, the greatest part about it was seeing Paaul Pierce finally get a championship and his just due and respect as a player. It was so special because we had a homegrown star who the entire city devoted itself to and backed through thick and thin and lived and died with. The cherry on top was KG and Ray Allen buying in and KNOWING it was Paul's team. Period. And they couldnt have handled it better, and because of that KG will be as beloved a Boston sports star as almost any other besides Pierce, and Allen to a lesser extent.

What Ainge is trying to do -- that's NOT Boston. New England is a blue collar, tough skinned, emotionally attatched, devoted, and unparralleled loyal sports city. We historically have always preferred homegrown teams as as opposed to "bought" teams that last a few years at best. Historically we ride or die with OUR players and OUR team and have their back no matter what, if they are deserving.

Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, Al Horford, Gordon Hayward, Semi Ojelye, Robert Williams, Aron Haynes, Daniel Theis...... So far all have proved they deserve all our love and devotion -- especially Smart, Horford, Hayward, Stevens, and Ainge even though he seemingly has lost track of whats important here. Kyrie and AD can kick rocks and turd all over a city and their team all they want, championship or not. Kyrie's dad has earned more of our devotion than his son ever will be able to muster.

I want to enjoy seeing this young core develop, have fun, and be unconditionally supported through wins or losses by the greatest sports city and fan base in the world. That's what makes this enjoyable to me. And by all accounts, Tatum,Brown, Smart, Hayward, and Al are all excellent locker room guys with great personalities and ability to build great chemistry. I'd rather watch them give it their best shot than a couple uninspired clowns, even if said clowns win a championship. Good for them and that city, they will be there a few years and onto the next city as has become the norm in the league lately.

If any of our guys turn into superstars, lets make them love the team, city, and fanbase so much that they wouldnt even consider signing elsewhere in free agency.

[Triplenickle]

Building around the young guys would be really dumb for a number of reasons.  First, we have ONE maybe star in Tatum and that's it.  Simply won't get it done.  Second, we'll have to pay Tatum and Brown like stars and then how do we improve?  We could perhaps hit on another draft pick but other than that, the team might be tapped out (or near it) in terms of salary cap space.

No, the move to make it the opposite and most obvious one.  Trade the young guys for Davis.  A team of Davis, Horford, Kyrie, Smart, and Hayward should compete for several years.

Nah, it's not dumb because this is only the second year after IT and the promise of a "young team for years to come". It's a lack of vision to all a sudden change to want a vet that you have to gut the entire roster for.

That vet team yall are talking about have about 3-4 years before they become "the aging 3" and looking to trade with more young guys.

That sounds close to incompetence to me when you have A decent stream of picks to reinforce the young guys.

Even if the vets click a lil bit and luck is on their side...it won't last long.

And Davis, Hayward, and Kyrie are not really Paul, Kevin, Ray and Rondo.  They won't even be able to afford a Perk...who Danny somehow thought wasn't valuable anyway....after a ring at that.

All those guys were unselfish and good passers for their careers...so they didn't have to adjust, it was how they played all the time.

[Triplenickle]

And all yall know that without Hayward and Davis salary, who might not even stay, the team will be much easier to pay and get a player here and there to fill a gap.

[arctic 3.0]

I'm all in on feeling good about the Celtics again.  I don't care if it means the ceiling is reaching the ECF again and losing to a team with an MVP talent. 

It's better than this mess.

I'm more concerned about them winning championships rather than how warm & fuzzy they make me on the inside and plateauing.

Yearning for a ceiling of ECF as long as I like the team is just a concept that's never registered in my head as a sports fan.   It's been about winning the championship and everything else being second nature.

I highly doubt kyrie is going to lead us to a championship.
More faith in Tatum/Jaylen getting us there in a few years.

[Triplenickle]

But man...they're not gettin no rings with Brad's system, no matter who they have.

And good luck trying to make vets run around for nothing.

[Chris22]

We have plenty of draft picks to pick up a big man, which is our main weakness. The thing I don't want us to do is give away the store for a one year rental of Anthony Davis.

[LarBrd33]

I love Tatum, but a team of Jayson Tatum and pocket change would get old real quick.  They'd hover around 45 wins and a mid-to-late seed every season.  You'd long for the team to add a second star.

[Silky]

The lack of a deadline deal.

The lack of adding any salary to use in a davis deal.

These are making me believe that kyrie doesnt plan on staying and that ainge has no intentions of offering a deal for davis anymore amd instead improving on last seasons team.

[RPGenerate]

I love Tatum, but a team of Jayson Tatum and pocket change would get old real quick.  They'd hover around 45 wins and a mid-to-late seed every season.  You'd long for the team to add a second star.

Which is exactly what some of these people want. They rather us be the new Raptors of the east then go for a championship.

[Chris22]

I love Tatum, but a team of Jayson Tatum and pocket change would get old real quick.  They'd hover around 45 wins and a mid-to-late seed every season.  You'd long for the team to add a second star.

We have three first round picks this year, plus whatever trades or signings Ainge comes up with.

I would rather we go that direction than giving away the store for a one year rental of Anthony Davis.

[PhoSita]

I love Tatum, but a team of Jayson Tatum and pocket change would get old real quick.  They'd hover around 45 wins and a mid-to-late seed every season.  You'd long for the team to add a second star.

I trust Brad to get a team like that -- with Horford and Smart on board long term -- to 50+ wins.  And I think it would be sustainable.

I'd be really interested to see how that works out.  I'd want to see how Ainge could do work around the edges to add the right players to that group.

Maybe Tatum or Brown turn into a Jimmy Butler / Paul George type player.

Or maybe they're just Otto Porter and Wes Matthews.

Maybe Gordon Hayward finds himself again and leads the way.  Or maybe he's just overpaid Joe Ingles, but then stays in Boston long term in that exact role for a while longer.


I have more faith in where we would end up going that route than if we sell off everything, re-sign Kyrie to a 2 year deal with a third year opt out or whatever, get AD for one year and then one+one deals after that, and we're spending the whole time hoping they win it before they get sick of trying and leave.


If we were talking about putting together such an explosive collection of talent that they would be all but guaranteed to win it all, that's one thing.


Is the AD + Kyrie pairing clearly good enough to put them ahead of the Raptors, Bucks, Sixers?  Is it enough to be ahead of the Warriors if KD stays? 


If it's not enough, and it would just mean the Celts have a chance, is that worth selling off all the fruits of the rebuild to date and possibly ending up with nothing but bad contracts and bad memories 1-2 years from now?


I dunno.  I think we're probably gonna end up going that route regardless.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

We have a very good young core of Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart, and possibly Semi Ojeleye and Robert Williams. Kyrie is without question an elite and unique talent and so is AD. But I for one would rather root for a team that is homegrown and who we developed and have become emotionally attatched to, championship win or not. Rozier has to go, so does Morris. Am Gosford HAS to be retained and Hayward is a great vet to provide leadership for the yoinger guys.

In this upcommimg draft there is a PG named Ja Morant. Unreal athlete, great handle, facilitator, defender, scorer, and someone that you could draft and develope with your already very good young core. It would certainly cost us less to trade up innthe draft to take Morant than it would AD and I havent heard anything negative regarding poor leadership or issues with teammates.

Just an alternate suggestion/theory, I really dont see any hope in KI coming back or us trading for AD or AD even wanting to come here and sign an extension. Why not try to draft a great prospect that would potentially fit in perfectly with oir young core and make our young guys better players?

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Then what was the point of trading for him? Don't you guys get it? Whether you agree or not, Celtics management has already committed to moving forward with Kyrie. There are exactly two options: he signs or he chooses another team. There is no third option that WE LET him walk.

Not trying to be ****, but seriously don't get your hopes up. Barring injury, this will not happen. If they had any thought in their head that it will, he was going to be shipped off at the trade deadline.

I have no interest in dropping back down to a borderline playoff team (if even that) & rebuilding again. 

THANK YOU! it is pathetic we have so called fans in this thread who are fine with mediocrity as long as they are "entertained" If you want entertainment go to THE MOVIES! we are here to WIN! if you do not like it then leave the celtics fandom. real simple. we do not need them. we demand excellence and the best chance to win titles.