Is Stevens a system or star laden coach?

[KGBirdBias]

Guys PJ didn't have a system, he had an offense. A system is when almost anyone can go for 30, minutes are scripted, no one player is more important than the other player, its predicated off of ball movement and possibly 5-6 guys getting double figures.

PJ Triangle was dominated by his stars.

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong about this. The triangle is a system. One in which if you have great players in certain roles, works very well. With players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Pippen, Gasol, and to a lesser extent Rodman, Grant, Odom the system works to it's maximum capabilities.

PJ is definitely a system coach.  He's running the triangle even if it doesn't fit his players that well.

John Thompson, Pitino, Dean Smith had systems. They all play alot of guys to play pressure defense which requires a lot of energy. Dean Smith ran 4 corners when he had a lead . We saw MJ flourish when he left UNC. You knew what was coming. Boeheim has a zone defense.

IMO Stevens wants to move the ball and shoot 3s without much inside presence. The guys who have left Stevens system haven't done much.

[KGBirdBias]

My point is other teams have tried to run the triangle and it hasn't worked. Hornacek hated it and it didn't fit. Kerr isn't running it in GS.

I'm not criticizing Stevens, I'm more looking at Kyrie not being a good fit for Stevens philosophy.

A better thread, then, might be “does Stevens’ system utilize Kyrie properly and allow him to reach his maximum potential ?”

I think the answer to that is probably yes, but there’s room to argue.

Well if you say anything negative about Kyrie you get all kinds of you hate Kyrie responses. LOL I'm asking more about Stevens  ability to succeed with more talent.

[tazzmaniac]

Guys PJ didn't have a system, he had an offense. A system is when almost anyone can go for 30, minutes are scripted, no one player is more important than the other player, its predicated off of ball movement and possibly 5-6 guys getting double figures.

PJ Triangle was dominated by his stars.

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong about this. The triangle is a system. One in which if you have great players in certain roles, works very well. With players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Pippen, Gasol, and to a lesser extent Rodman, Grant, Odom the system works to it's maximum capabilities.

PJ is definitely a system coach.  He's running the triangle even if it doesn't fit his players that well.

John Thompson, Pitino, Dean Smith had systems. They all play alot of guys to play pressure defense which requires a lot of energy. Dean Smith ran 4 corners when he had a lead . We saw MJ flourish when he left UNC. You knew what was coming. Boeheim has a zone defense.

IMO Stevens wants to move the ball and shoot 3s without much inside presence. The guys who have left Stevens system haven't done much.

Don't see your point of mentioning college coaches.  College sports are driven by coaches.   Professional sports are player driven to varying degrees.  The NBA is probably the most player driven league which really means its a star driven league. 

I agree that is Stevens system but few star players would want to be a cog in a system.  Maybe at the end of their careers or if they are an overachieving role player like Horford.  Star players want the system and role players built around them.  They want to have the ball in their hands during crunch time.

[nickagneta]

This will be the third straight season that Stevens system will win over 50 games and make the playoffs. He went to the ECFs two years in a row with almost entirely different personnel packages. Time will show if this iteration of the team will have equal or more success in the playoffs.

And these teams have had IT and Kyrie as superstars.

[KGBirdBias]

Guys PJ didn't have a system, he had an offense. A system is when almost anyone can go for 30, minutes are scripted, no one player is more important than the other player, its predicated off of ball movement and possibly 5-6 guys getting double figures.

PJ Triangle was dominated by his stars.

You are absolutely, unequivocally wrong about this. The triangle is a system. One in which if you have great players in certain roles, works very well. With players like Shaq, Kobe, MJ, Pippen, Gasol, and to a lesser extent Rodman, Grant, Odom the system works to it's maximum capabilities.

PJ is definitely a system coach.  He's running the triangle even if it doesn't fit his players that well.

John Thompson, Pitino, Dean Smith had systems. They all play alot of guys to play pressure defense which requires a lot of energy. Dean Smith ran 4 corners when he had a lead . We saw MJ flourish when he left UNC. You knew what was coming. Boeheim has a zone defense.

IMO Stevens wants to move the ball and shoot 3s without much inside presence. The guys who have left Stevens system haven't done much.

Don't see your point of mentioning college coaches.  College sports are driven by coaches.   Professional sports are player driven to varying degrees.  The NBA is probably the most player driven league which really means its a star driven league. 

I agree that is Stevens system but few star players would want to be a cog in a system.  Maybe at the end of their careers or if they are an overachieving role player like Horford.  Star players want the system and role players built around them.  They want to have the ball in their hands during crunch time.

The point of mentioning college coaches is to show the contrasting styles from college to the NBA. Stevens may have all the qualities to be a great college coach but may need to make some concessions on winning a chip in the NBA. It's not a knock on him but maybe having a few stars and no superstar is the way to go. I would categorically say Hayward a d Horford are stars, Kyrie is a superstar. They don't have to color outside the lines to be effective. Kyrie likes coloring outside the lines. I think Hayward and Horford would fit in seamlessly with the style the Warriors play. I don't believe Kyrie would.

[Celtics4ever]

System definitely also seems prisoner to small ball and unable to use traditional bigs.  That being said he understands the modern game.

[CelticsElite]

He builds systems around whatever he haS

The system with that IT 2017 team was built around IT.

[Ogaju]

System

[BitterJim]

Honestly, I think the whole "Stevens can't coach good players" thing is stupid. He's literally never had a team as talented as this one, but people want to kick him to the curb because he's had just a so-so season?

Do the same people want to waive Tatum since he hasn't improved as much as expected (clearly he just can't play on a team with good stars, and the success of last year got to his head)? It's not like he (or Stevens) could possibly learn/improve

[Tr1boy]

Does Stevens excel more when 15 guys buy into learning and knowing the system he runs. There is nothing wrong with this approach because it can win games, but can it win chips?

Does having stars that can play outside the system disrupt his coaching style? This creates problems because everyone isn't pulling in the same direction. Stars win chips in the NBA, but it may be better for the system to create the star (IT) verses getting a star to fit the system (Kyrie).

I think both could work but one is for college and the other the NBA. See the difference in Phil Jackson who had stars and college coaches that try to coach in the NBA.

Just wondering if that's what were dealing with this season compared to last season.

Cmon you know the answer

[celticinorlando]

I want to know what Rozier has on Brad. He refuses to bench him for his horrible play

[KGBirdBias]

Why couldn't Williams play tonight?

This is just embarrassing. No way we should lose to the Bulls. We were playing well right before the break and now they look like garbage.

[Tr1boy]

Why couldn't Williams play tonight?

This is just embarrassing. No way we should lose to the Bulls. We were playing well right before the break and now they look like garbage.

Exactly

[celticinorlando]

Brad seems like he has lost this team. They have not improved one bit from game 1 to tonight. The team is unmotivated, plays joyless basketball, does not seem to like each other and just plain selfish.

Brad refuses to bench Rozier who is absolutely putrid. Struggles figuring out in game issues, does not call time outs and lacks halftime adjustments. Worst of all he shows no leadership.

[KGBirdBias]

This is ANOTHER game where if guys aren't playing hard put in Semi, Williams.

Why do we keep going over playing guys that aren't playing hard.

Stop, call timeout and put in guys that play hard.