BR - Every Team biggest 2018 regret - C's making Brown off limits for K Leonard

[Moranis]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2811636-every-nba-teams-biggest-regret-of-2018?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral#slide2

[RockinRyA]

Even with Brown we wont be able to beat the Raptors' package, unless we include Kyrie. The Spurs clearly didn't want to rebuild. That's understandable for a team like the Spurs who are small market but built their fanbase around their playoff success. Their fans are happy even if they don't win a title as long as their team competes.

I was in favor of the deal provided Leonard resigns. Which I don't think he does hence my doubts.

[CelticsElite]

Kahwi is gone after this year to LA

Ainge is holding onto assets for Davis. Even if we lose out on Davis, I don’t think Ainge or ownership want to live thinking “what if”


This A trade package and asset collection for a Davis trade proposal has been in the making for years

[Phantom255x]

Disagree.

It was reported all around that the only teams Leonard was willing to extend with were NYK, LAC and LAL, but NOT Boston. Could that have changed once he came here and played? Sure.

But trust me. If Ainge traded Brown + more for Leonard and he bolted after a year, possibly to the Lakers, then this blog would have KILLED him.

Toronto took the gamble because honestly they were stuck and probably knew DeRozan + Lowry just wasn’t going to get it done. Lowry + Leonard could. MIL probably could have done the same with a package involving Middleton and others to form a Giannis + Leonard duo.

I do think Ainge is still keeping his chips on the table to try for a Davis deal in the next year to 1.5 years.

[CelticSooner]

So what evidence is there out there that SA wanted JB? The only thing that was reported was SA wanted vets to win now.

[Moranis]

Disagree.

It was reported all around that the only teams Leonard was willing to extend with were NYK, LAC and LAL, but NOT Boston. Could that have changed once he came here and played? Sure.

But trust me. If Ainge traded Brown + more for Leonard and he bolted after a year, possibly to the Lakers, then this blog would have KILLED him.

Toronto took the gamble because honestly they were stuck and probably knew DeRozan + Lowry just wasn’t going to get it done. Lowry + Leonard could. MIL probably could have done the same with a package involving Middleton and others to form a Giannis + Leonard duo.

I do think Ainge is still keeping his chips on the table to try for a Davis deal in the next year to 1.5 years.

Does Boston win the title this year with Leonard?  If so, then even if Leonard leaves (which I think is unlikely if Boston wins the title), then Ainge would have been fine because he brought the team a title, something that right now looks pretty far away given how the team has actually looked this year.  Still time to get the kinks out, but Boston with Leonard is absolutely a better team than they are now, and Toronto is no where near as good (thus eliminating a real challenger from the mix).  Boston is a team of titles, if Boston won the title almost any trade would be worth it, especially it was something like Brown, Smart, 1st or Brown, Morris, Rozier, 1st. 

[celts10]

I don't think we would have beaten the Raptors package, but in hindsight I wish we would have traded Brown to the then-rebuilding (or more like youth movement?) Pacers for Paul George in the 2017 offseason.

[Birdman]

 Leonard going to LA so i didnt want a one year rental..bigger prize is Davis

[KGs Knee]

Eh, it's B/R...I'm not going to pay it much never mind. It is a rather silly take, though.

Pretty foolish to spend quality assets on a potential rental given the Celtics overall situation. Toronto was in a place where making such a gamble really was a 'little to lose' proposition. Totally different circumstances. Ainge should have no regrets on passing on trading for Kawhi, if SAS was ever even interested.

[RockinRyA]

Disagree.

It was reported all around that the only teams Leonard was willing to extend with were NYK, LAC and LAL, but NOT Boston. Could that have changed once he came here and played? Sure.

But trust me. If Ainge traded Brown + more for Leonard and he bolted after a year, possibly to the Lakers, then this blog would have KILLED him.

Toronto took the gamble because honestly they were stuck and probably knew DeRozan + Lowry just wasn’t going to get it done. Lowry + Leonard could. MIL probably could have done the same with a package involving Middleton and others to form a Giannis + Leonard duo.

I do think Ainge is still keeping his chips on the table to try for a Davis deal in the next year to 1.5 years.

Does Boston win the title this year with Leonard?  If so, then even if Leonard leaves (which I think is unlikely if Boston wins the title), then Ainge would have been fine because he brought the team a title, something that right now looks pretty far away given how the team has actually looked this year.  Still time to get the kinks out, but Boston with Leonard is absolutely a better team than they are now, and Toronto is no where near as good (thus eliminating a real challenger from the mix).  Boston is a team of titles, if Boston won the title almost any trade would be worth it, especially it was something like Brown, Smart, 1st or Brown, Morris, Rozier, 1st.

No, even with Leonard we can't beat GSW, esp since we have little depth after that trade.

[keevsnick]

Disagree.

It was reported all around that the only teams Leonard was willing to extend with were NYK, LAC and LAL, but NOT Boston. Could that have changed once he came here and played? Sure.

But trust me. If Ainge traded Brown + more for Leonard and he bolted after a year, possibly to the Lakers, then this blog would have KILLED him.

Toronto took the gamble because honestly they were stuck and probably knew DeRozan + Lowry just wasn’t going to get it done. Lowry + Leonard could. MIL probably could have done the same with a package involving Middleton and others to form a Giannis + Leonard duo.

I do think Ainge is still keeping his chips on the table to try for a Davis deal in the next year to 1.5 years.

Does Boston win the title this year with Leonard?  If so, then even if Leonard leaves (which I think is unlikely if Boston wins the title), then Ainge would have been fine because he brought the team a title, something that right now looks pretty far away given how the team has actually looked this year.  Still time to get the kinks out, but Boston with Leonard is absolutely a better team than they are now, and Toronto is no where near as good (thus eliminating a real challenger from the mix).  Boston is a team of titles, if Boston won the title almost any trade would be worth it, especially it was something like Brown, Smart, 1st or Brown, Morris, Rozier, 1st.

That's really the only argument, if trading for Kawhi wins Boston the title this year you do it. I just think there's almost no chance it does. Yes, Kawhi is great but given that Hayward is so far this year a far diminished player and may very well remain so (for the year) and given that you likely have to give up some of your depth for salary matching purposes I think you reach the point where you may be the best team in the east and still not have  a chance against the Warriors. This may sound crazy, but I honestly believe a healthy Warriors tea gets underated around here sometimes.

So taking that into consideration and then you have other factors like the fact that Kawhi is likely a rental, it takes away pieces  you might want to use in a Davis trade, questions abut how a personality like Kawhi would fair in a market like Boston and the fact that Jaylen has struggled for like 30 games and I think will  likely turn it around and I'm still not sure its something we should be beating ourselves up about.

Well, not yet anyway. If Toronto wins the championship with Kawhi and Jaylen keeps struggling we can revisit it.

[Big333223]

I'll echo some of what's already been said. The C's weren't going to put together an offer the Spurs liked more than getting Derozan, Jaylen or no Jaylen.

And these things aren't done playing out. As has been said, if Kawhi leaves for LA in the summer, giving up a big ransom for him wouldn't have been a good look. And if Brown winds up in another deal for a different superstar, then we might well say, "Gee, it's a good thing Ainge didn't cash out too soon."

And I think Jaylen can rebound from this start. He might never be a superstar but he's not as bad as he's been to start the season.

[Moranis]

Disagree.

It was reported all around that the only teams Leonard was willing to extend with were NYK, LAC and LAL, but NOT Boston. Could that have changed once he came here and played? Sure.

But trust me. If Ainge traded Brown + more for Leonard and he bolted after a year, possibly to the Lakers, then this blog would have KILLED him.

Toronto took the gamble because honestly they were stuck and probably knew DeRozan + Lowry just wasn’t going to get it done. Lowry + Leonard could. MIL probably could have done the same with a package involving Middleton and others to form a Giannis + Leonard duo.

I do think Ainge is still keeping his chips on the table to try for a Davis deal in the next year to 1.5 years.

Does Boston win the title this year with Leonard?  If so, then even if Leonard leaves (which I think is unlikely if Boston wins the title), then Ainge would have been fine because he brought the team a title, something that right now looks pretty far away given how the team has actually looked this year.  Still time to get the kinks out, but Boston with Leonard is absolutely a better team than they are now, and Toronto is no where near as good (thus eliminating a real challenger from the mix).  Boston is a team of titles, if Boston won the title almost any trade would be worth it, especially it was something like Brown, Smart, 1st or Brown, Morris, Rozier, 1st.

No, even with Leonard we can't beat GSW, esp since we have little depth after that trade.

Obviously a healthy Golden State is probably not losing, but can you really count on Golden State being healthy.  Curry has been banged up a lot this year.  Green has missed a bunch of time (and hasn't really missed any time ever).  Durant has missed a lot of games in the past.  Thompson has never been hurt, at some point you expect him to get banged up a bit.  Cousins still hasn't played.  The Warriors also don't have much depth at all.  And as has been pointed out a lot on this board the Celtics have had a fair amount of success against the Warriors and that is without someone like Leonard, who is a legitimately in the discussion with Durant and Curry as that level of player. 

If Boston would have made that trade over the summer it probably would have been something like Morris, Brown, Smart sign and trade, and a 1st (and if it took the Sacto pick so be it).  Let's say Smart's contract was big enough to allow Danny Green to come back to Boston (maybe with some filler like Bird and Yabu).

So post-trade Boston would have been

PG - Irving, Rozier, Wanamaker
SG - Hayward, Green
SF - Leonard, Hayward
PF - Tatum, Theis, Semi
C - Horford, Baynes, Williams

The trade was early enough in the summer that Boston could have still used the MLE (or taxpayer MLE) to add some veteran depth, but even without adding any depth that team is by far the best team in the East and frankly by far the 2nd best team in basketball.  And that team is closer to the Warriors than any other team is to it. 

Couple that with how young it is and how I would expect Leonard to fit and get along with everyone, I would see no reason why he wouldn't try to build a dynasty in Boston.  Sure he might leave, but Paul George was going to leave Oklahoma City high and dry also.  How'd that work out again?  Brown, some role players, some salary filler, and an unknown future draft pick were worth taking a shot on Leonard.  I've consistently maintained that position as well, so it isn't some hindsight thing either.  Now maybe that type of offer would have been able to be topped by Toronto (I don't think DeRozan, Poeltl, and a late 1st tops it), but it would have at least forced Toronto to up its offer.  Maybe that type of offer gets LA in the game as well and forces them to expend their assets.  Who knows what happens, but not including Brown was a mistake in my mind.  You can't just pass up a chance at getting a gold medal superstar over a 2nd year player who may or may not ever reach his ceiling, especially one whose ceiling is probably only a silver medal superstar. 

[rondofan1255]

let's see if Kawhi joins another team like LAL/LAC next summer
same argument that is used with the kyrie trade, will he re-sign or not

[Moranis]

let's see if Kawhi joins another team like LAL/LAC next summer
same argument that is used with the kyrie trade, will he re-sign or not

Obviously Toronto wants him to re-sign, but I think they are "ok" if he doesn't since they had peaked as a team with DeRozan and his gigantic contract was going to hamper any shot at rebuilding (and they only also gave up just a late 1st and a mid-tier prospect).  If Kawhi leaves Toronto will just go into full bore rebuilding around Siakam and OG, and just go into asset sell off mode, which they will be able to do much easier without DeRozan on the roster.  It was worth the shot for them.  Not quite the same as the Irving trade where Boston gave up what ended up as the 8th pick, though Boston got 2 years from Irving, so that also softens the blow from that end.