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C's players only meeting
« on: December 22, 2018, 09:15:02 AM »

Offline Eddie20

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The Celtics had a player only meeting that lasted 35 minutes after the loss to the Bucks. Here are some comments from the players (mostly Kyrie):

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"At this point it comes down to cohesion, being able to trust the pass, trust what we have going on out there," Irving said. "Obviously some selfish play out there where ... we have some really talented guys, but we're better as a team sharing the basketball. And, if it's late in the shot clock, that's when we start shooting our iso plays, as opposed to if we have nothing in transition shooting with 16 or 17 on the clock, or shooting a fadeaway, something like that.

"I get caught up in that as well. For me it's a hard challenge, because there's a balance I have. I literally can do anything I want out there, but at the same time it's what can I do for my teammates to be more successful. I have to be very conscious of that."

While Irving didn't name any players specifically, those references -- the quick shots in transition, and the fadeaways -- applied to shots Jayson Tatum took during Friday's loss. Tatum was yanked out of the game by Brad Stevens after one ill-timed stepback midrange jumper midway through the first quarter, and again after taking another bad shot early in the second -- a mistake he compounded by then getting called for a technical foul as Milwaukee continued to blow the game open.

Irving also, as he has several times this season, pointed out the team's youth as part of the issues the Celtics are attempting to work through as the year progresses.

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Jaylen Brown - “It’s not about me. It’s about us. We’re trying to be one as a unit. We’re either going to be all in, or we’re not. So I didn’t take anything personally from it. But we’ve all got to be better.”

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Jayson Tatum - “It’s just something we need to keep in the locker room. It’s not for everybody to know what we talked about”.

It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that the quotes were about Tatum and Brown, as well as probably Rozier. So as it relates to those 3 players:

They have consistently taken tough contested shots and have not made the extra pass all year. Perhaps their playoff success last season, which was supposed to be a positive, has made it difficult for them to take a secondary role. They all have had numerous defensive lapses throughout the season and their focus and energy seems to be reflective of how much success they're having, minutes they're playing, and shots they're taking on the offensive end. Tatum is constantly complaining for calls and Brown's defense goes how his offense goes.

Perhaps some of this blame does fall on Brad Stevens. He preaches a "green light for all" approach, but perhaps defined roles in terms of player hierarchy should be in place. Maybe he should yank Brown, Tatum, or Rozier immediately following a contested shot early in the shot clock. You can't really do that to Irving, again player hierarchy and talent gives him a longer leash. This also doesn't apply to Hayward or Horford since they play the right way and always seem to be willing to make the extra pass. Even Morris has stopped the iso-Mo's this season and is playing much more team basketball.

The issue I see is the disconnect from the younger players. Maybe we do have too many young guys (Tatum, Brown, and Rozier) that are still looking for their own personal accolades. It might be time to think of packaging one of them, looking right at Rozier, in order to bring back a more of a team guy (Patrick Beverley comes to mind) and try to change the culture by replacing a young needy player with a hardworking blue-collar type veteran.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 09:23:33 AM by Eddie20 »

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2018, 09:33:40 AM »

Offline Green-18

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The young guys are struggling to balance their natural instincts with making the right basketball play.  Tatum and Brown needed to be super aggressive in last years post-season.  There was no need to second guess their approach.  Hopefully they understand that there is a limited upside to our style of play from the playoffs.  It was a real grind to get through those playoff games.  I also hope they have the self-awareness to realize that Philly, Milwaukee, and Toronto are all MUCH better than last year.

Here's another question I have for everyone.  How would last years team fared with the rule changes?  Scoring and pace of play has increased dramatically from last season.  I don't think last years team could overcome their offensive droughts in this years NBA.  The new defensive rules would have hurt us in the Bucks series.


Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2018, 09:58:06 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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The Playoffs really changed my opinion of Terry, I used to really dislike his game. My opinion of him personally hasn't hasn't changed since then, kid played with a lot of heart. So his play now just makes me sad, not angry.

Brown and Tatum will be fine probably.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2018, 10:16:51 AM »

Offline timpiker

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If its true, the issue with with Rozier/Tatum/Brown, and I think it probably is, its because they believe their press clippings since last year and think they're superstars right now and are playing for that next big contract.  Maybe Kyrie/Al/Gordon aren't "team leaders" like they're supposed to be.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2018, 10:17:10 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think it is probably the case that the team would be having an easier time right now if they had more players on the roster who already know who they are in this league and what their ideal role is. 

When your top guys are all set and healthy and clicking, you can afford to have reserves that are still figuring out their role and their place. 

But the Celts are still in flux from top to bottom.  Makes finding consistency pretty difficult.
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Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2018, 10:18:13 AM »

Offline Chris22

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They don't need a team meeting.

They need to get healthy and stop starting Hayward and Ojeleye.

Williams is better than Theis, Ojeleye, or Yabu.

Figure it out, Brad.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2018, 10:33:07 AM »

Offline FLCeltsFan

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The key will be how they react to the meeting and to Kyrie's criticism.  If they pull together as a team and the young guys learn from it,  we will be fine.  If they take it personally and don't pull together but keep looking for their own,  then that player should definitely sit or be traded. 

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2018, 10:39:58 AM »

Offline Chris22

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When you give up 35 points in the first quarter its not "sharing the ball" that is the problem. It's starting a lineup with very poor interior defenders.

I have been saying it all season, Brad does not get it. We need a center on the floor at the beginning of the game. With everyone out, it should be Williams.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 11:20:00 AM »

Offline cons

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Brad has been anointed as our guy. And personally I’m not totally ready to bail out on him but usually this type of situation would indicate a coaching change. He must know that. Gotta get it together

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 11:30:46 AM »

Offline JBcat

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When you give up 35 points in the first quarter its not "sharing the ball" that is the problem. It's starting a lineup with very poor interior defenders.

I have been saying it all season, Brad does not get it. We need a center on the floor at the beginning of the game. With everyone out, it should be Williams.

Williams is not very good with rotational defense right now. 

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 11:33:24 AM »

Offline JBcat

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Brad has been anointed as our guy. And personally I’m not totally ready to bail out on him but usually this type of situation would indicate a coaching change. He must know that. Gotta get it together


This type of situation?  Each year his record has gotten better.  I’m willing to look at his track record rather than a bad stretch.

Who would you rather have as a coach?

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 11:55:27 AM »

Offline More Banners

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Just got to stay together and ride this out.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2018, 11:59:10 AM »

Offline cons

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Don’t know. Just pointing out that in general terms this type of situation would usually lead to a coaching change. And I’m sure Stevens knows that. Hoping he somehow pulls this off. It’s ugly right now

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2018, 12:02:26 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Who would you rather have as a coach?

I'd take Doc over Stevens all day, every day. Too bad that ship sailed a long time ago.

Re: C's players only meeting
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2018, 12:07:26 PM »

Offline LilRip

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As good as his numbers are, I haven’t been the biggest fan of Tatum this year. I don’t have the numbers in front of me but it wouldn’t surprise me if:

1. His points in the paint are down
2. His iso attempts are way up
3. His contested mid range shots are up
4. His points off assisted field goals are down
5. His shooting % from a catch and shoot/assist is consistent

Hes been a ball stopper on offense most of the time. It seems like each trip down, he’s trying to “school his defender” rather than making the simple play. He’s playing like Kobe on a bad Lakers team but without the defense or the court vision.
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