Have the players tuned out Stevens?

[ozgod]

Why are most people so scared to criticize Kyrie for this bad start? Maybe just maybe he's not a good leader. I enjoy his points and flashy plays but there is more to winning than that.

Probably because if we’re looking for people to blame for the team taking bad shot options, shooting dismally, and not putting effort on D Kyrie probably isn’t at the top of the list.

[Moranis]

I would explore trading Irving if this doesn't get fixed over the next 20 games.

I just think Smart and Rozier are dogs and their effort is what ignites the fire. Rozier blossomed when he was running the show and the ball moved. He's not playing well now but he plays better when he knows when he's going to play.

Get as much as you can for Irving if it comes to that. Sorry if that doesn't a sit right with some people. We saw the cohesiveness last year in the playoffs.

Why the hell can't William's be playing now? This makes no sense.

Lol. What a surprise! You want to trade our best performer, who is on an expiring contract (ie low value)? Ridiculous notion

You mean we gave up Sexton Collin, Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas, Ante Zizic, and a second-rounder just to get rid of Kyrie Irving....

Collin Sexton, who looks good.  Or either of the Bridges. 

If Kyrie is a superstar as so many here maintain (top 10 player, even), then there is no one else to blame for our poor start, especially in the context of last year's playoffs (for us and the Cavs).

Lol. How can you post that with a straight face, when JB, JT, Rozier, Al, Hayward & Smart have all performed well below expectations. Not to mention coaching

now you are going crazy the other way.  Smart and Tatum are performing around what they did last year and certainly what could have been expected of them.  Horford is certainly in the general range of performance for someone his age and who has been getting worse for years (his extremely odd 3 point shooting percentage last year not with standing).  Morris is playing much better than last year.  Hayward is coming back from injury and his performance should be expected.  Brown is playing like crap, no argument there, but he is still playing solid defense and is the 5th option on offense.  You aren't losing games because your 5th offensive option can't hit the broad side of a barn (I mean just look at Smart all those years).

Irving is not a guy that is going to push teams to wins.  He has never been that guy.  He is a terrible defender, doesn't rebound, doesn't pass all that well, etc.  He is an incredible ball handler and a superb scorer, but that is about all he is good for.  He is a bigger IT.  This board significantly overrated IT's importance while he was on the team, so I'd expect nothing less with Irving.  The simple truth is, if Irving is your best player you aren't winning a title, he just isn't good enough to be that type of player.  The faster this board comes to that conclusion, the better the discourse on this board will be.

[Who]

I think Kyrie has to take some responsibility for these starts. He's suppose to be the leader. Maybe a trade will wake some guys up.

This is more than not making shots. Are they feeling the pressure to live up to expectations?

I don't know how you can keep complaining about Kyrie's leadership when time and again he is our best player, and puts in more defensive effort than anyone thought he would.

He's literally the only player that consistently shows up.

A PG's job is to make sure the other 4 guys are getting the ball and playing well.

You do wonder when your PG is the only guy playing well consistently ... while none of your other talented players are managing to do so .... it's not like this team lacks talent elsewhere. There is loads of quality on this team. This team should be a PG's dream.

It's strange but I do wonder if the team would play better with Rozier at PG. Not because Rozier is more talented but because everyone else would touch the ball more often and be more involved in the offense than they are with Kyrie.

[PhoSita]

I think Kyrie has to take some responsibility for these starts. He's suppose to be the leader. Maybe a trade will wake some guys up.

This is more than not making shots. Are they feeling the pressure to live up to expectations?

I don't know how you can keep complaining about Kyrie's leadership when time and again he is our best player, and puts in more defensive effort than anyone thought he would.

He's literally the only player that consistently shows up.

A PG's job is to make sure the other 4 guys are getting the ball and playing well.

You do wonder when your PG is the only guy playing well consistently ... while none of your other talented players are managing to do so .... it's not like this team lacks talent elsewhere. There is loads of quality on this team. This team should be a PG's dream.

It's strange but I do wonder if the team would play better with Rozier at PG. Not because Rozier is more talented but because everyone else would touch the ball more often and be more involved in the offense than they are with Kyrie.

I would say it's the job of the lead playmaker.  Kyrie's not our lead playmaker, nor does he seem well suited for that role.  Last year playmaking was mostly done by Horford and Smart, this year Gordon has taken a lot of those responsibilities.

It'd be great if Kyrie were an amazing assassin scorer and a lead playmaker.  He'd be a possible MVP if he were. But that's not his game.

[Larry for 3]

I think Kyrie has to take some responsibility for these starts. He's suppose to be the leader. Maybe a trade will wake some guys up.

This is more than not making shots. Are they feeling the pressure to live up to expectations?

I don't know how you can keep complaining about Kyrie's leadership when time and again he is our best player, and puts in more defensive effort than anyone thought he would.

He's literally the only player that consistently shows up.

A PG's job is to make sure the other 4 guys are getting the ball and playing well.

You do wonder when your PG is the only guy playing well consistently ... while none of your other talented players are managing to do so .... it's not like this team lacks talent elsewhere. There is loads of quality on this team. This team should be a PG's dream.

It's strange but I do wonder if the team would play better with Rozier at PG. Not because Rozier is more talented but because everyone else would touch the ball more often and be more involved in the offense than they are with Kyrie.

I would say it's the job of the lead playmaker.  Kyrie's not our lead playmaker, nor does he seem well suited for that role.  Last year playmaking was mostly done by Horford and Smart, this year Gordon has taken a lot of those responsibilities.

It'd be great if Kyrie were an amazing assassin scorer and a lead playmaker.  He'd be a possible MVP if he were. But that's not his game.

Kyrie has 13 assists last night, 11 against Toronto, his play making if is just fine, not to mention several great defensive plays last night , he’s showed up, where’s everybody else?

[Moranis]

I think Kyrie has to take some responsibility for these starts. He's suppose to be the leader. Maybe a trade will wake some guys up.

This is more than not making shots. Are they feeling the pressure to live up to expectations?

I don't know how you can keep complaining about Kyrie's leadership when time and again he is our best player, and puts in more defensive effort than anyone thought he would.

He's literally the only player that consistently shows up.

A PG's job is to make sure the other 4 guys are getting the ball and playing well.

You do wonder when your PG is the only guy playing well consistently ... while none of your other talented players are managing to do so .... it's not like this team lacks talent elsewhere. There is loads of quality on this team. This team should be a PG's dream.

It's strange but I do wonder if the team would play better with Rozier at PG. Not because Rozier is more talented but because everyone else would touch the ball more often and be more involved in the offense than they are with Kyrie.

I would say it's the job of the lead playmaker.  Kyrie's not our lead playmaker, nor does he seem well suited for that role.  Last year playmaking was mostly done by Horford and Smart, this year Gordon has taken a lot of those responsibilities.

It'd be great if Kyrie were an amazing assassin scorer and a lead playmaker.  He'd be a possible MVP if he were. But that's not his game.

Kyrie has 13 assists last night, 11 against Toronto, his play making if is just fine, not to mention several great defensive plays last night , he’s showed up, where’s everybody else?

Getting assists doesn't necessarily equate to play making.  I mean Marbury is 19th all time in assists per game at 7.65.  Iverson averaged way more assists in his prime then Irving does (and his career is 0.7 apg better than Irving).  Neither Iverson or Marbury would ever be called great playmakers.  Yet they both had a lot of games in the triple digits in assists. 

Irving quite simply is not a great playmaker.  He isn't a very good passer (as PG's go) and most of the time doesn't look to pass until he has exhausted his own shot creation options. 

This overrating of Irving just drives me crazy.  For Irving to be at his best he needs to play next to someone like Lebron James.  A guy that handles the heavy lifting and then when everything else breaks down can get the ball to Irving so that Irving can play hero ball and bail the team out.  Hopefully Hayward rounds back into form to be that guy (obviously a much lesser version of James, but still the main playmaking option).

[KGBirdBias]

Yes!! Some guys that truly understand the job of leadership and playmaking. That is perfect, Horford was a playmaker last year and now not so much. This is Horford's strength and if you take that away, ,he looks pedestrian.

That is so true, Bron would do the heavy lifting and Kyrie can go get a bucket as the shot clock is ticking down. That is what we missed in the playoffs last year. It's the other 20 seconds where we are inefficient. Everyone is standing and watching and then not ready to shoot or move.

[rcarlson125]

Hard to blame just Kyrie. We were 46-20 before he went down last year and he played generally the same way then as now. Then without him they make the ECF, so hard to blame those guys too. You can't say Al is older now, he literally has aged 6 months since he dominated Embiid in a series, it didn't just happen overnight.

It's chemistry. The front office should give this a few weeks longer and see if anything happens. If not, it is time to make a change. You trade or you have Brad change it up. Don't ask me how, I don't make that kind of money, lol.

I don't get why this is so hard to figure out. If you put good and good together it is supposed to equal great if the peices align. Clearly they do not as of now. But hey some of those LeBron teams that won started out like this so that's why I say give me til Xmas or so..

[mctyson]

It is not Kyrie's fault, though he certainly can play better.

The reality is there are guys getting lots of minutes that are simply not producing:  Brown, Rozier, and to some extent Hayward. 

Stevens needs to solve this.

[hpantazo]

I wonder how much of our struggles is due to the league having figured out Stevens system and game planning for us, compared to last year? Our system was on full display in our ECF run, and right now it seems every team's guards go off on us by finding weaknesses in our defense, and push us into taking poor quality mid-range shots on offense.

[More Banners]

Well there's been some hero ball from some guys in contract years...

Some young players have acted their age...

Some guys are working their way back in...

So maybe not tuned out, but it sure doesn't look all in sync for a few reasons BS would like fixed sooner rather than after the asb.

[PhoSita]

I wonder how much of our struggles is due to the league having figured out Stevens system and game planning for us, compared to last year? Our system was on full display in our ECF run, and right now it seems every team's guards go off on us by finding weaknesses in our defense, and push us into taking poor quality mid-range shots on offense.

The system on offense is more the issue

[Celtics4ever]

I wonder how much of our struggles is due to the league having figured out Stevens system and game planning for us, compared to last year

I think some of this is true, but on the other hand we lead the league in open shots.   We just don't make them.

Could Brown's shooting last year have been a fluke?

[RJ87]

I wonder how much of our struggles is due to the league having figured out Stevens system and game planning for us, compared to last year

I think some of this is true, but on the other hand we lead the league in open shots.   We just don't make them.

Could Brown's shooting last year have been a fluke?

It's certainly looking like it.

[Hoopvortex]

It's like there is a disconnect somewhere. Is he still able to motivate these guys or do they still believe in him?

At this level it is not a coach’s job to motivate players (actually not at any level, but it’s most obvious when you get to the top of a profession). As Pat Riley so sagely said, if an NBA player isn’t already motivated, there’s nothing a coach can do to change him.

A coach’s job is to make requests and demands, and then hold his players accountable. Whole different world.