Author Topic: Letís re-examine this team  (Read 2200 times)

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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2018, 11:15:19 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Celtics currently have the same record after 7 games as the '10-11 Heat.

These things take time to gel.  Better to work out the kinks now rather than March.


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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2018, 11:26:49 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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It's great they won and had a comeback, however they should have never been in that situation to begin with. The Suns were a 2-8 team.


Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2018, 11:28:34 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Celtics currently have the same record after 7 games as the '10-11 Heat.

These things take time to gel.  Better to work out the kinks now rather than March.

The sky hasn't fallen yet, but I don't like the comparison to the heat.

This team doesn't have the player of the generation, a D-Wade still on his prime, and Chris Bosh.


Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2018, 11:28:38 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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It's great they won and had a comeback, however they should have never been in that situation to begin with. The Suns were a 2-8 team.

This I agree with.    Last night was a win they escaped with that they had no business winning in a game that they should've steamrolled to begin with.


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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2018, 11:29:43 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Celtics currently have the same record after 7 games as the '10-11 Heat.

These things take time to gel.  Better to work out the kinks now rather than March.

The sky hasn't fallen yet, but I don't like the comparison to the heat.

This team doesn't have the player of the generation, a D-Wade still on his prime, and Chris Bosh.

Alluding more to the fact of getting all of these moving parts to work together.

Not great team came together immediately like the '07-08 Celtics.


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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2018, 11:38:48 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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One thing you can definitively say after such a small sample size is that Hayward is not yet ready to be back in All-Star form. Another is that Tatum needs to not buy into his own hype. 

Outside of that, making the open shots that we're very good at creating will cure a lot of ills. Let's hope that kicks in sooner than later.

Hayward right now reminds me of Manu Ginobili in one of his mid-30s years when he was playing banged up.

Still crafty, gets the shots he wants most of the time, but is too slow and not explosive enough to break the defense, and misses a lot of easy shots.

I kind of like the idea of Hayward as a bigger Manu for this team, but at $30 million a year the team was surely hoping to get more than that.  The injury was a wrench in that plan, of course.  Hopefully he regains some of his old game by March / April.
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2018, 11:48:03 AM »

Offline Rosco917

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It's not too early to be at least talking about solutions. Not with the showing they had in pre-season and to this point. With the personnel that this team has, they are underachieving.

IMO the chemistry is not right. We go on long scoring droughts because we live and die at the 3 point line. Maybe we have to come to the realization that we're not the Warriors. Maybe we'll never be. We may have to have more set plays, and we definitely need to get into the paint to collapse the defense more often. In the sport of basketball, there are many ways to skin a cat. 

Lastly...We have too many players in the starting lineup that need the ball. This team needs a lineup adjustment. Hayward, Tatum, and Brown look like they can't be on the floor at the same time. The young kids haven't yet learned to be complementary players, they end up just being timid. 

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2018, 11:49:29 AM »

Offline KGBirdBias

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My synopsis of the starters.

Irving - Like another poster said, the ball stops as he's trying to create. I would rather see him close games like last night but spend more of the game getting others open.

Hayward - It's going to take time. I think he's still thinking and not instinctively reacting. He's probably still unsure of his body. He needs more iso's early in the games and needs to be the go-to guy with reserves so he can start to get that #1 scorer feeling back. Early in the games when the game isn't on the line.

Tatum - He needs to get stronger with the ball and stop deferring so quickly in the offense. I'd like to see him post up more because he's great on the block and most don't have his size.

Brown - He makes me cringe when he starts to handle the ball to much. He has small hands and small feet, which causes him to lose balance or lose the ball many times. He's another one that needs to post up more and work on midrange game. If he gets midrange game down, the defenders won't know how to cover him because he's a great slasher and improved shooter already.

Horford - Too bad everyone wants to play him at C. He's much better with a big C playing next too him. His skills and unmatched but he probably needs to be more of a vocal leader in times like this.

For now I still want Stevens to tinker with rotations and lineups. Right now the starters are playing too much finesse ball and the reserves bring the grit and hustle. We need a better mix.Just my opinion, not the gospel.

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2018, 12:02:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This team won't be a real contender until Hayward is the best player on the team.  Irving just isn't good enough to be the main guy on a champion.

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2018, 12:37:49 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Celtics currently have the same record after 7 games as the '10-11 Heat.

These things take time to gel.  Better to work out the kinks now rather than March.

The sky hasn't fallen yet, but I don't like the comparison to the heat.

This team doesn't have the player of the generation, a D-Wade still on his prime, and Chris Bosh.

Alluding more to the fact of getting all of these moving parts to work together.

Not great team came together immediately like the '07-08 Celtics.

It's because we are so talented at the wing position. Somebody has to be the odd-man out right.

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2018, 01:44:25 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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They're going to eventually need to establish a pecking order.  You can't have a democratic offense because no one gets into a rhythm.  So assuming that happens, can the third and fourth and fifth options play those roles well?  We know Horford can but what about brown and, eventually perhaps tatum?

I've said many times we would a better team if we could replace a guy or two with specialist that don't need the ball to be effective.  Not proposing a specific trade but a guy like Ariza for instance would do very well on this team. 

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2018, 01:46:45 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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im not buying LP yet ... too much clowning around

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2018, 01:56:34 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This team won't be a real contender until Hayward is the best player on the team.  Irving just isn't good enough to be the main guy on a champion.

The best guy on a champion in a league with the Warriors in it, or a league with normal talent distribution?

Right now, nobody is good enough to be the best player on a champion unless they're on the Warriors.

In a normal league, I think Kyrie is absolutely good enough.  The combination of elite defense and an elite individual scorer is a good recipe for a title, if some things break your way and you have home court advantage.
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2018, 02:01:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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This team won't be a real contender until Hayward is the best player on the team.  Irving just isn't good enough to be the main guy on a champion.

The best guy on a champion in a league with the Warriors in it, or a league with normal talent distribution?

Right now, nobody is good enough to be the best player on a champion unless they're on the Warriors.

In a normal league, I think Kyrie is absolutely good enough.  The combination of elite defense and an elite individual scorer is a good recipe for a title, if some things break your way and you have home court advantage.

I agree with this Phosita, although maybe Cousins will somehow screw up the Warriors.

Re: Letís re-examine this team
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2018, 02:12:07 PM »

Offline Moranis

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This team won't be a real contender until Hayward is the best player on the team.  Irving just isn't good enough to be the main guy on a champion.

The best guy on a champion in a league with the Warriors in it, or a league with normal talent distribution?

Right now, nobody is good enough to be the best player on a champion unless they're on the Warriors.

In a normal league, I think Kyrie is absolutely good enough.  The combination of elite defense and an elite individual scorer is a good recipe for a title, if some things break your way and you have home court advantage.
That isn't true.  Plenty of players are good enough to be the best player on a champion, they just may not have an overall team that can compete with the Warriors (I mean Harden's Rockets were basically a Paul injury away from beating them last year).  I'd put the players that are good enough (i.e. Gold Medal Superstars) as Lebron, Durant, Curry, Davis, Giannis, Leonard, Harden, and Westbrook.  I think Embiid could be there in a season or two and guys like Dirk, Wade, and Paul were, but aren't at that level any more (obviously Paul is closer to that level right now than the others).  Guys like Irving and Hayward are in the next tier down (along with players like Lillard, George, Butler, Jokic, Paul, Embiid, etc.) such that in a rare season and when coupled with multiple similarly skilled players a team might be able to win a title, but that team likely isn't going to be in the running year after year.  The Pistons of 2004-05 are an example of that type of team.  A nice 2 season run, but needed some crazy luck to actually break through and win the title. 

To be a real contender this year, Boston absolutely needs Hayward to get back into form and needs Tatum to continue to develop.  The team would then have 3 to 4 silver level players (Hayward, Irving, Tatum, Horford) and a bronze or 2 (Brown, Smart or Rozier), such that the right luck and they could beat a team or two with a gold medal superstar and win the title (again much like the Pistons did beating the Lakers).  Though as you say the Warriors aren't like most other contending teams, which poses a real difficulty not usually around (though an injury to Curry or Durant and that Warriors team becomes beatable).

Only if Tatum reaches max potential and ascends into the gold medal category (or Boston acquires that player, like say Davis) will Boston be a consistent and yearly contender for years on end. 

 

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