Author Topic: Roziers realistic trade value  (Read 5281 times)

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Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2018, 04:20:55 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I might do something like Morris and Rozier for Giles and Mason.  C's get cheaper longer term bench players (and take a chance that Giles can stay healthy) and drop enough salary to get out of the luxury tax.  Kings get a wing in Morris they could use and a 6th man guard, which they could also use.
This cripples our bench for this season though. Our second most reliable player this season, and a guy who, despite his weak showing this season, has the ability to light up a game, for basically a risk that Giles turns into something? No thanks
I don't think Boston has great odds at a title this year, so I'd rather improve the chances next year and remove a year of tax so repeater tax is avoided for an extra year. 

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2018, 03:30:59 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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I'd say a 1st round pick with protections that decrease each time it doesn't transfer until it becomes unprotected.  I have no idea who could/would offer an attractive deal to DA.

Hopefully we can package Rozier and other things for a roster upgrade though.  Would hate to do it just for a draft pick as we could make a push this year with the right trade.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2018, 09:12:06 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I might do something like Morris and Rozier for Giles and Mason.  C's get cheaper longer term bench players (and take a chance that Giles can stay healthy) and drop enough salary to get out of the luxury tax.  Kings get a wing in Morris they could use and a 6th man guard, which they could also use.
This cripples our bench for this season though. Our second most reliable player this season, and a guy who, despite his weak showing this season, has the ability to light up a game, for basically a risk that Giles turns into something? No thanks
I don't think Boston has great odds at a title this year, so I'd rather improve the chances next year and remove a year of tax so repeater tax is avoided for an extra year. 
I think it's way too early to punt on this season -- just conceding another title to GSW is just a quitter's mentality in my book.

having said that, your proposal doesn't accomplish anything other than avoiding the tax because you certainly didn't improve the team down the line.  You're sending out the 2 best players in the deal by far as well as hurting the return we'll be getting on the Kings pick. 

mindbogglingly bad proposal.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2018, 09:59:06 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I might do something like Morris and Rozier for Giles and Mason.  C's get cheaper longer term bench players (and take a chance that Giles can stay healthy) and drop enough salary to get out of the luxury tax.  Kings get a wing in Morris they could use and a 6th man guard, which they could also use.
This cripples our bench for this season though. Our second most reliable player this season, and a guy who, despite his weak showing this season, has the ability to light up a game, for basically a risk that Giles turns into something? No thanks
I don't think Boston has great odds at a title this year, so I'd rather improve the chances next year and remove a year of tax so repeater tax is avoided for an extra year. 
I think it's way too early to punt on this season -- just conceding another title to GSW is just a quitter's mentality in my book.

having said that, your proposal doesn't accomplish anything other than avoiding the tax because you certainly didn't improve the team down the line.  You're sending out the 2 best players in the deal by far as well as hurting the return we'll be getting on the Kings pick. 

mindbogglingly bad proposal.
neither of Morris or Rozier is likely to be on the team next year and both of the acquired ones would be.  And I really like Giles talent.  His injury issues are a grave concern of course, but he was the #1 prospect in his class for a reason.  The talent is there.  And Mason is not as good as Rozier, but I think he fits as a back-up PG much better than Rozier, who really does need the ball and the ball a lot to be effective.  Mason gets to the line at a nice rate (about twice as often as TRoz), is a pretty solid passer, and at least last year was a respectable shooter from deep (this year not so much but he has 4 years of great shooting in college as well).

There is also a difference between writing a season off and being realistic.  Boston will struggle to get out of the East (Toronto, Milwaukee, and now Philadelphia are all tough outs, and that doesn't even include Indiana), but if it does, has very little shot at beating Golden State (or whatever team knocks GS out) in the Finals.  And Morris and Rozier will have almost nothing to do with a victory if Boston does do it (I mean I can't see Boston winning the championship because of Morris or Rozier).  Sometimes a team is better off making a minor trade that improves the future at the very slight current expense.  That is what I see that trade as.  And getting out of the luxury tax is critical this year.  I fully expect Morris to be moved at some point this season because of that. 

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2018, 07:52:45 AM »

Offline Green-18

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Is anyone else starting to become less concerned about the return for Rozier, at least in regards to draft picks and young talent?  I'm at the point where I would be happy with a veteran PG and heavily protected draft pick.

I know Orlando has been frequently referenced as a potential trade partner.  How would people feel about receiving DJ Augustin in return (obviously not just Augustin)?  He has been a very consistent shooter throughout his career regardless of minutes.  Size and poor defense would be the biggest concern.  However, I would assume that he could accept fluctuating minutes on a nightly basis.  He's 31 years old and hasn't had the opportunity to play on a real contender.

I envision him playing 18-20 MPG, with Theis and Semi stealing a larger chunk of those minutes on certain nights.  Brad also seems to excel when he has 2 or 3 end of the bench options to cycle through depending on match ups.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 08:00:46 AM by Green-18 »

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2018, 08:16:05 AM »

Offline cman88

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Is anyone else starting to become less concerned about the return for Rozier, at least in regards to draft picks and young talent?  I'm at the point where I would be happy with a veteran PG and heavily protected draft pick.

I know Orlando has been frequently referenced as a potential trade partner.  How would people feel about receiving DJ Augustin in return (obviously not just Augustin)?  He has been a very consistent shooter throughout his career regardless of minutes.  Size and poor defense would be the biggest concern.  However, I would assume that he could accept fluctuating minutes on a nightly basis.  He's 31 years old and hasn't had the opportunity to play on a real contender.

I envision him playing 18-20 MPG, with Theis and Semi stealing a larger chunk of those minutes on certain nights.  Brad also seems to excel when he has 2 or 3 end of the bench options to cycle through depending on match ups.


hes leaving this off-season. So the return is either nothing or something. With Kyrie seemingly committed to resigning long-term he is 100% gone. Ainge probably figured having someone with his talent on the bench would make us better this year and thus took the risk of keeping him. But thus far, without the big minutes he just doesnt have the same effect. And you can clearly see he is playing for his contract and hogging the ball once he has it.

Ainge needs to do an avery bradley type trade to replace him with someone who can contribute and is on a team friendly deal. A vet Point guard who has no problem playing his role.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2018, 08:49:27 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Is anyone else starting to become less concerned about the return for Rozier, at least in regards to draft picks and young talent?  I'm at the point where I would be happy with a veteran PG and heavily protected draft pick.

I know Orlando has been frequently referenced as a potential trade partner.  How would people feel about receiving DJ Augustin in return (obviously not just Augustin)?  He has been a very consistent shooter throughout his career regardless of minutes.  Size and poor defense would be the biggest concern.  However, I would assume that he could accept fluctuating minutes on a nightly basis.  He's 31 years old and hasn't had the opportunity to play on a real contender.

I envision him playing 18-20 MPG, with Theis and Semi stealing a larger chunk of those minutes on certain nights.  Brad also seems to excel when he has 2 or 3 end of the bench options to cycle through depending on match ups.
I agree completely. A DJ Augustin / JJ Barea type guy is the kind of guy I want. Unsure if Terry can net us Barea, but I could see Augustin being attainable.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2018, 12:28:50 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2018, 12:39:56 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

I believe Dallas would give up JJ Barea for him. Great back-up PG.
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Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2018, 12:42:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

I believe Dallas would give up JJ Barea for him. Great back-up PG.
Barrea is a Dallas guy. They love him down there. You'll never get Barea for Rozier. That would be like trading Smart for Kyle Korver.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2018, 12:49:34 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

I agree with this, if Danny wanted to trade him, it would have been this offseason when his value was higher before integrating Kyrie back into the starting lineup and eating away his minutes and leading a team.You don't dump a stock when it is down and crashing unless you absolutely need the liquidity. Right now is the worst possible time to move him.

My guess is that Danny is well aware of Kyrie's injury history and does not want to risk leaving this team with Smart leading the point for a good chunk of time. That is exactly what you will get if Kyrie goes down. Cleveland fans tell me constantly(work with them) that just wait, Kyrie gets some sort of injury like clockwork almost every year. There is no avoiding it.

Since he has been in the league, he has played in the following game in regular season:
51
59
71
75
53
72
60-missed all postseason

Those numbers do not scream trade away your back up.

In 2015 Finals, his knee collapsed. Last year he missed the entire playoffs and a huge chunk of games. In fact, in the past 3 years, only once did he play more then 70 games. Imagine this team with Smart leading the point for 30 games like in 16? Yikes.....But to be fair, that season he came back to lead them to a title with the dagger shot. When he plays, he is amazing...No doubting that but to think that he suddenly will become durable is probably not very realistic.

This latest injury is not an easy one long term as well. Here is a good article on the details of it.

https://theinjuryinsight.com/kyrie-irvings-knee-injury/

My guess is he stays for the year unless Danny can trade for a legitimate backup PG and he will facilitate a nice contract for him to someone else for an asset or two. We then sign a backup PG in the offseason. This will secure our chances this year in the event of another injury. In addition, Rozier on the 2nd unit in the playoffs will be awesome for us.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 12:55:35 PM by BringToughnessBack »

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2018, 12:58:23 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Spencer Dinwiddie? 1.6M, RFA after this season

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2018, 02:16:58 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Spencer Dinwiddie? 1.6M, RFA after this season
Spencer Dinwiddie is IMO a top 3 6MOTY candidate so far this season, so nabbing him would be an outright steal

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2018, 02:28:04 PM »

Offline Moranis

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

I believe Dallas would give up JJ Barea for him. Great back-up PG.
Barrea is a Dallas guy. They love him down there. You'll never get Barea for Rozier. That would be like trading Smart for Kyle Korver.
Except Rozier is better than Barea so it isn't anywhere near the same thing.  That said, I don't think Dallas would re-sign Rozier as they have Smith locked in at PG, so I don't see why they would want to acquire him.

I still like my Sacto trade, Giles and Mason for Morris and Rozier.  Gets Boston out of the tax, with a chance Giles can stay healthy and a nice solid young back-up PG that fits better.

Re: Roziers realistic trade value
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2018, 03:02:32 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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At this point, why trade him? You are not going to get anything of value back. It more likely he turns things around and becomes a solid contributor than it is finding anyone via trade that could help this team as much as Rozier. He has unfortunately played his way into being so bad, he is now worth more to us than anyone will give you in return for him.

I believe Dallas would give up JJ Barea for him. Great back-up PG.
Barrea is a Dallas guy. They love him down there. You'll never get Barea for Rozier. That would be like trading Smart for Kyle Korver.
Except Rozier is better than Barea so it isn't anywhere near the same thing.  That said, I don't think Dallas would re-sign Rozier as they have Smith locked in at PG, so I don't see why they would want to acquire him.

I still like my Sacto trade, Giles and Mason for Morris and Rozier.  Gets Boston out of the tax, with a chance Giles can stay healthy and a nice solid young back-up PG that fits better.
It's like it in the way that management in Dallas loves Barea and Boston's management loves Smart and neither team is looking to trade that player. And quite honestly, Barea has been playing world's better than Rozier this year. Yes, Rozier will be better from each player's career going forward, but Rozier is most likely not a long term Celtic, and could have a much worse season this year than Barea.

 

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