Author Topic: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.  (Read 3091 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2018, 10:27:56 AM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278
Hayward was a +4 tonight 3-7 with 8 points and 9 rebounds and two assists, the only bench player who wasn't a negative tonight was Robert Williams and he only played 2 minutes.
Yeah, Hayward killing us is completely out of touch. He has been no worse than Rozier, Tatum or Brown. He’s just paid more, but he also has an excuse for his poor start.

I’m not sure why people are thinking I was specifically saying just last night’s game. I’m talking globally for the season thus far.

Hayward has been killing us, because he’s pretty much been a non factor the entire season outside of one or two games. He’s been pretty bad defensively for us after a few good games early in the season - which was most likely him taking advantage of sloppy early season play - and he’s regularly picked on by opposing offenses. Offensively, he’s shooting well below his career averages and especially his later seasons’ averages, and he’s been a half-step slow on all of his moves.

And all of this is completely understandable given his injury, and he’s clearly not the only problem we have. But it is clearly a problem.

Spending a week or two in the G League would do him some good at rebuilding his rhythm and timing. While the skill level is certainly a step below the NBA, most of the G League players are just as athletic as the NBA guys, especially on the wings, and the game is just as fast, if not faster due to less focus on defense. This could help him get back into the rhythm of playing without the stakes of losing real NBA games, because like it or not these early season games still do matter for positioning later in the season.

I just think you have much more to gain and less to risk by giving him a some games in the G League, which wouldn’t affect team chemistry or development all that much either.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2018, 10:29:50 AM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278
Jamal Murray scoring 48 points killed the Celtics.  That and the C's bench getting crushed by the Nuggets bench.

Again - global assessment, not just a single game. Hayward’s poor play certainly didn’t help last night, but clearly Murray going off and the bench struggles (along with Brad’s poor decision-making in the 2nd) were the primary culprits.
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2018, 11:12:49 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4341
  • Tommy Points: 362
The G League?  Are you kidding?  I think just playing off the bench for a stretch would be enough.  The G League would do him no good at all in my opinion.  He still needs to be playing against NBA level talent.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2018, 11:38:05 AM »

Offline rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6494
  • Tommy Points: 76
I'm not a baseball guy, but don't they use the minor leagues in a similar way for guys coming back from injuries?

Yes, indeed. It's common practice.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2018, 12:04:17 PM »

Offline Bobshot

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1617
  • Tommy Points: 105
The problem with Hayward is he is taking up too many minutes of other guys who are more into the chemistry of this team. You could say he isn't himself yet, but he also doesn't seem to have a role on this team, which seems to have bypassed him  with the rapid development of younger players.

The irony is they are paying him a huge chunk of money, and he isn't worth anywhere near that on this team right now. A real dilemma.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2018, 12:20:38 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18288
  • Tommy Points: 1681
If the team is going to contend this year (which is clearly their goal), Hayward needs to be a big part of the game plan, and he needs to be integrated with the other players in order to be that large a part of the game plan.

These are necessary growing pains for this team.

Hayward has been rough but he looks like he can be a sort of Andre Iguodala type presence either with the starters or off the bench.

We may reach a point where Hayward has to be put into a reserve role, like Iggy.  But I think the team is going to have to play him as a starter for a while before they can reach that conclusion.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2018, 12:27:11 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1035
  • Tommy Points: 127
I just don't see the problem with Hayward as the 6th man like Ginobili.

Ginobili was also an All Star, he performed great in that role and was a massive part of the success of the Spurs.

Hayward has the ball handling, scoring power and experience to lead a unit on the court. Giving him more touches and responsibilities will only increase his process to becoming himself again. 
George Carlin — 'That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2018, 12:50:22 PM »

Offline LilRip

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3894
  • Tommy Points: 124
I just don't see the problem with Hayward as the 6th man like Ginobili.

Ginobili was also an All Star, he performed great in that role and was a massive part of the success of the Spurs.

Hayward has the ball handling, scoring power and experience to lead a unit on the court. Giving him more touches and responsibilities will only increase his process to becoming himself again.

Except Hayward hasn't looked very dynamic with or without the ball. And tbh (and can someone run the stats on this), it seems like we've run more plays through Hayward than either of Jaylen or Jayson. It wouldn't surprise me if Kyrie was #1 and Horford was #2 in terms of touches, and then afterwards would probably be Rozier (lol), and then Hayward, and then Tatum.

Part of me blames Brown's early season struggles on his lack of touches. It's hard to establish rhythm when you don't see the ball much. He developed a good rhythm in the Nuggets game but that sort of evaporated after the 1st quarter.
- LilRip

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2018, 02:09:26 PM »

Offline straightouttabahstun

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 504
  • Tommy Points: 39
  • That's turrible
It’s tough. The Celtics were a very different team when they were signing him. Think about it- the best offensive players were Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley. Then Kyrie came here. Then Brown and Tatum realized they could ball hard QUICK. Suddenly, he doesn’t look like the greatest fit on the team. Does he even work well even in his All Star 2017 form?

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2018, 02:36:34 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7756
  • Tommy Points: 1309
Put yourself in Hayward's shoes for minute:

*He needs to find a sense of comfort in his own body after a brutal injury.  He probably fears reinjury and questions if he'll ever play at the same elite level.

*He has missed an entire season of play at the highest level. He needs time to find his rhythm and adjust to NBA speed again.  He's probably relearning muscle movements after that much time off.

*He's probably concerned with fitting into a team he just watched succeed at a high level in his absence.   He now needs to find his role without disrupting that chemistry -- which he was robbed of last year -- and now he has to figure it out in the context of all these other challenges.

You psychopaths lack empathy.    :)
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 02:44:11 PM by tarheelsxxiii »
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1596
  • Tommy Points: 203
Hayward was a +4 tonight 3-7 with 8 points and 9 rebounds and two assists, the only bench player who wasn't a negative tonight was Robert Williams and he only played 2 minutes.

Williams only played two minutes last night because they are resting him for his new position as starting center for the Boston Celtics...

 :)

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2018, 02:46:10 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1035
  • Tommy Points: 127
I just don't see the problem with Hayward as the 6th man like Ginobili.

Ginobili was also an All Star, he performed great in that role and was a massive part of the success of the Spurs.

Hayward has the ball handling, scoring power and experience to lead a unit on the court. Giving him more touches and responsibilities will only increase his process to becoming himself again.

Except Hayward hasn't looked very dynamic with or without the ball. And tbh (and can someone run the stats on this), it seems like we've run more plays through Hayward than either of Jaylen or Jayson. It wouldn't surprise me if Kyrie was #1 and Horford was #2 in terms of touches, and then afterwards would probably be Rozier (lol), and then Hayward, and then Tatum.

Part of me blames Brown's early season struggles on his lack of touches. It's hard to establish rhythm when you don't see the ball much. He developed a good rhythm in the Nuggets game but that sort of evaporated after the 1st quarter.

Usage percentages (Assist ratio and True Shooting %) from NBA.com:

Kyrie Irving 25,1 (22,0 - 58,7)
   
Jayson Tatum 22,0 (13,6 - 52,4)
Marcus Morris 21,3 (7,1 - 65,8)
   
Jaylen Brown 20,0 (9,4 - 45,5)
Gordon Hayward 19,3 (16,0 - 48,6)
Al Horford 18,9   (23,3 - 53,2)
   
Aron Baynes 16,2 (14,3 - 56,5)   
Terry Rozier 15,4 (19,6 - 46,6)
   
Marcus Smart 12,3 (36,0 - 45,1)   
   
Apparently Hayward and Horford have been less involved in plays than you thought. It's all quite balanced with Smart having the least touches, despite having the best assist ratio. Irving as the primary playmaker just ranks 37th among starters in the league in USG% (that's very low for an All Star type scorer).

According to the stats Irving, Horford and Smart are the best playmakers on this team. Rozier and Hayward seem decent on the ball, but Hayward has been turnover-prone.

Tatum, Brown and Morris are only good in creating shots for themselves, where the last one has been exceptional at that so far.
George Carlin — 'That's why they call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.'

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2018, 02:50:25 PM »

Online jpotter33

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30452
  • Tommy Points: 278
Put yourself in Hayward's shoes for minute:

*He needs to find a sense of comfort in his own body after a brutal injury.  He probably fears reinjury and questions if he'll ever play at the same elite level.

*He has missed an entire season of play at the highest level. He needs time to find his rhythm and adjust to NBA speed again.  He's probably relearning muscle movements after that much time off.

*He's probably concerned with fitting into a team he just watched succeed at a high level in his absence.   He now needs to find his role without disrupting that chemistry -- which he was robbed of last year -- and now he has to figure it out in the context of all these other challenges.

You psychopaths lack empathy.    :)

Psst - we all know that Tar is biased in this regard, because he just has the hots for Robyn Hayward.  ;D
Whatever crushes individuality is despotism, by whatever name it may be called and whether it professes to be enforcing the will of God or the injunctions of men.

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2018, 02:56:49 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7756
  • Tommy Points: 1309
Put yourself in Hayward's shoes for minute:

*He needs to find a sense of comfort in his own body after a brutal injury.  He probably fears reinjury and questions if he'll ever play at the same elite level.

*He has missed an entire season of play at the highest level. He needs time to find his rhythm and adjust to NBA speed again.  He's probably relearning muscle movements after that much time off.

*He's probably concerned with fitting into a team he just watched succeed at a high level in his absence.   He now needs to find his role without disrupting that chemistry -- which he was robbed of last year -- and now he has to figure it out in the context of all these other challenges.

You psychopaths lack empathy.    :)

Psst - we all know that Tar is biased in this regard, because he just has the hots for Robyn Hayward.  ;D

Truer words have never been spoken.  :)
"As far as playing, I didn't care who guarded me - red, yellow, black. I just didn't want a white guy guarding me, because it's disrespect to my game."
-Larry Bird

Re: Hayward is Killing Us. Needs Some Time in the G League to Rebuild Himself.
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2018, 03:41:34 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12837
  • Tommy Points: 2469
  • Brad Stevens' Fantastic Five
Stay the course, with Gordon Hayward starting.

Need to give him TIME to get himself familiar with the game again, fit in, insert himself chemistry-wise.

He needs to do this as a STARTER.

This may take well into Jan of next year but I / we are already seeing some signs (game in DET, game vs MIL) where he resembles the GH of old.

Must be PATIENT with him - even if it costs us some wins.

We may have to dial back our win total to "only" 54 or 55 games but I can live with this once we are steamrolling the league into June of next year.

Team has to man up.....batten down the hatches....circle the wagons....SUPPORT GH...
Marcus Smart "Impacts Winning." Boston Celtics Coach Brad Stevens

 

Hello! Guest

Welcome to the CelticsStrong Forums.

Community

Signup to win FREE tickets

* indicates required