Poll

Who was better, Paul Pierce or Scottie Pippen?

Pierce
21 (51.2%)
Pippen
20 (48.8%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Pierce or Pippen  (Read 4642 times)

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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2018, 10:14:36 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


For his career Pierce averaged 30.0 pts per game per 100 possessions. Pierce was, without a doubt, the better offensive player.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2018, 10:21:31 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


For his career Pierce averaged 30.0 pts per game per 100 possessions. Pierce was, without a doubt, the better offensive player.

Youíre right, I must have been looking at the wrong numbers for Pierce.  I do think the difference in usage is substantial.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2018, 10:22:50 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pippens points per game per 100 possessions career average is essentially what a washed up Pierce did on the Wizards.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2018, 10:22:59 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


For his career Pierce averaged 30.0 pts per game per 100 possessions. Pierce was, without a doubt, the better offensive player.

Yeah, there's no question Pierce was the better offensive player. The year Jordan was gone, Pippen had the keys to the car, no one else he really had to share the ball with, he was in his prime and he topped out at 22 ppg. The season after, just about the same. Pierce had 6 seasons scoring more than Pippen's career high and he was much more versatile.

This is a real debate, but I think what should be settled is that Pippen was the superior defender and Pierce was the superior scorer.
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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2018, 10:23:52 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce is obviously underrated nationally. But he's a bit underrated locally, too. He was a great offensive player and also one of the toughest players I've ever seen, who was able to sustain great play for a long time.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2018, 10:26:15 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 10:27:23 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2018, 10:31:44 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2018, 10:33:35 PM »

Online Ilikesports17

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Come on now. Pippen, and itís not close.
I get it if people pick Pippen, but to say it's not close is a bit much. It's pretty darn close. A lot of Pippens' career he was aided by the fact that defenses had to focus so much on Jordan. I'm not saying that negates his greatness, but you need to take that into account.

It's really not close.  Seven All-NBA teams for Pippen (3-first; 2-second; 2-third); 10 All-Defense selections.  Pierce four All-NBA selections (1-second; 3-third); zero All-Defense.

Pippin leads in titles (obviously), but also rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, eFG%.  Pierce leads in scoring and FT%.  That's despite Pippen being a #2 option (behind the NBA's career leader in Usage) and Pierce being a clear #1 (six times being in the top-10 in Usage).

I stand by my statement:  it's not really close.
You say "despite" as if being a second option hurts your rebounds assists steals blocks and efg. It affects assists. That's it. In fact I would say that Pippen playing next to Jordan inflated is efficiency and allowed him to be way more active on the boards and defense.

The overall point is correct. Pippens better, but "despite" is not appropriate there.
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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2018, 10:34:45 PM »

Online Ilikesports17

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.
You can be a top 10 player of your era without making a bunch of all-NBA teams.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2018, 10:35:48 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


Allen Iverson had 7 ALL-NBA selections. I'd love for you to mathematically prove to me Iverson was a better offensive player than Pierce.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2018, 10:39:45 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.
You can be a top 10 player of your era without making a bunch of all-NBA teams.

Itís not particularly likely though. When voters had to look at the top six forwards and top six guards every year, they only selected Pierce four times. Only once was he voted to the second team, and never to the first.

So, if only once was he a top-8 guard/forward, and never was he a top-4 guard/forward, then itís hard to put him in the top-10.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2018, 10:40:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


Allen Iverson had 7 ALL-NBA selections. I'd love for you to mathematically prove to me Iverson was a better offensive player than Pierce.

Iverson did more with less.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2018, 10:46:10 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.
You can be a top 10 player of your era without making a bunch of all-NBA teams.

Itís not particularly likely though. When voters had to look at the top six forwards and top six guards every year, they only selected Pierce four times. Only once was he voted to the second team, and never to the first.

So, if only once was he a top-8 guard/forward, and never was he a top-4 guard/forward, then itís hard to put him in the top-10.


In 05-06 Pierce had the best year of his career. However, he was not an All-NBA selection. All-NBA selections typically reward winning. Unfortunately, Pierce did not play with Jordan his whole career. The best player he ever had during his prime was Antione Walker. Wow.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2018, 10:52:23 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Pierce was probably a top 10 player of his era. Can we say the same about Pippen? I don't think I can.

All-NBA voters disagreed.


Allen Iverson had 7 ALL-NBA selections. I'd love for you to mathematically prove to me Iverson was a better offensive player than Pierce.

Iverson did more with less.


That's very subjective. In 10 seasons with Philadelphia, Iverson could only manage 5 seasons with records above .500%. Statistics show he was horribly inefficient and not a winner.

 

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