Poll

Who was better, Paul Pierce or Scottie Pippen?

Pierce
21 (51.2%)
Pippen
20 (48.8%)

Total Members Voted: 41

Author Topic: Pierce or Pippen  (Read 4178 times)

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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2018, 09:12:13 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Come on now. Pippen, and itís not close.
I get it if people pick Pippen, but to say it's not close is a bit much. It's pretty darn close. A lot of Pippens' career he was aided by the fact that defenses had to focus so much on Jordan. I'm not saying that negates his greatness, but you need to take that into account.

It's really not close.  Seven All-NBA teams for Pippen (3-first; 2-second; 2-third); 10 All-Defense selections.  Pierce four All-NBA selections (1-second; 3-third); zero All-Defense.

Pippin leads in titles (obviously), but also rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, eFG%.  Pierce leads in scoring and FT%.  That's despite Pippen being a #2 option (behind the NBA's career leader in Usage) and Pierce being a clear #1 (six times being in the top-10 in Usage).

I stand by my statement:  it's not really close.


Those All-NBA selections can be attributed to playing on 8 teams that won more than 55 games, many of those teams winning more than 60, in which he was always the second or sometimes third best player (by a huge margin) on every one of those teams but one. In the 94-95 season, where Pippen led the Bulls, they won a whopping 47 games. The following year when Jordan returned, they won a record setting 72 games at the time.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2018, 09:12:42 PM »

Offline liam

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I don't believe that Pierce ever refused to enter a game because he wasn't getting the last shot ALA Pippen. Pierce would've taken the Blazers home in Portland/Lakers in that terrible 4th quarter. Blazers blow a 15 point 4th quarter lead. Pierce was way more clutch and more of an Alpha than Pippen.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2018, 09:17:44 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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for me, a tough call.  Pierce was much better offensively and right from the get go.  Pippen needed a few years to get going.  Pippen was a much better defender and rebounder.  having said that, PP showed what he could do against one of the top players ever in Lebron in the playoffs.  Pippen didn't really have to play against anyone on that level -  he played with the one player of that caliber in the league at that time.

the eras they played in I think favored Pippen in terms of thinner rosters of the teams in the league at that time.  of course, Pierce's early career had a paucity of talent in the East (when Sixers and Nets are getting to the finals with those rosters, the East was very weak) but over their careers, particularly during their peaks, I think Pierce played against better competition. 

always felt Pippen was overrated and PP was underrated which would play into a poll like this if done nationally.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2018, 09:17:51 PM »

Online gouki88

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Come on now. Pippen, and itís not close.
I get it if people pick Pippen, but to say it's not close is a bit much. It's pretty darn close. A lot of Pippens' career he was aided by the fact that defenses had to focus so much on Jordan. I'm not saying that negates his greatness, but you need to take that into account.

It's really not close.  Seven All-NBA teams for Pippen (3-first; 2-second; 2-third); 10 All-Defense selections.  Pierce four All-NBA selections (1-second; 3-third); zero All-Defense.

Pippin leads in titles (obviously), but also rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, eFG%.  Pierce leads in scoring and FT%.  That's despite Pippen being a #2 option (behind the NBA's career leader in Usage) and Pierce being a clear #1 (six times being in the top-10 in Usage).

I stand by my statement:  it's not really close.
The All-Defence teams is what swayed me to Pippen. Crazy good defender

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2018, 09:24:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Come on now. Pippen, and itís not close.
I get it if people pick Pippen, but to say it's not close is a bit much. It's pretty darn close. A lot of Pippens' career he was aided by the fact that defenses had to focus so much on Jordan. I'm not saying that negates his greatness, but you need to take that into account.

It's really not close.  Seven All-NBA teams for Pippen (3-first; 2-second; 2-third); 10 All-Defense selections.  Pierce four All-NBA selections (1-second; 3-third); zero All-Defense.

Pippin leads in titles (obviously), but also rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, eFG%.  Pierce leads in scoring and FT%.  That's despite Pippen being a #2 option (behind the NBA's career leader in Usage) and Pierce being a clear #1 (six times being in the top-10 in Usage).

I stand by my statement:  it's not really close.


Those All-NBA selections can be attributed to playing on 8 teams that won more than 55 games, many of those teams winning more than 60, in which he was always the second or sometimes third best player (by a huge margin) on every one of those teams but one. In the 94-95 season, where Pippen led the Bulls, they won a whopping 47 games. The following year when Jordan returned, they won a record setting 72 games at the time.
93-94 the Bulls swapped Jordan for Kukoc but otherwise were basically the same team as the first 3 peat.  Pippen was by far the best player on that team. They won 55 games and Pippen had his best statistical season if his career. He finished 3rd in MVP voting.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2018, 09:28:55 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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...and the year after he only won 47.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2018, 09:29:07 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2018, 09:31:32 PM »

Offline CelticSince83

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...and the year after he only won 47.

Because Jordan came back and ruined things. 

But yeah, anyway, 93-94 he looked pretty good leading a team by himself.   

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2018, 09:31:34 PM »

Online gouki88

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2018, 09:37:46 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball


Because I was focusing on how Pierce was a far better offensive player and scorer. I never made the argument that he was a better defender.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2018, 09:38:05 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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Pierce and I feel like it shouldn't even be a discussion.

Pippen is obviously miles better defensively. But Pierce still gets the underrated and most underappreciated award.
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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 09:45:11 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 09:49:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Pierce and I feel like it shouldn't even be a discussion.

Pippen is obviously miles better defensively. But Pierce still gets the underrated and most underappreciated award.

Underappreciated, sure.

But he wasn't close to Pippen.  He simply wasn't the defender, passer,  rebounder, or (per 100 possessions) scorer.  Pippen outproduced Pierce pretty much across the board, despite surrendering many, many, many touches to Jordan.


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Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 09:49:56 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


He may average more under those simulated conditions, but Pippen would still a less efficient offensive player.

Re: Pierce or Pippen
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 09:56:05 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Career averages for Pierce:

ppg: 20.7
Ts%: .568
3pt%: .368
FT%: .806%

Career averages for Pippen:

ppg: 16.1
ts%: .536
3pt%: .326
FT%: .704


Pierce was definitely the better offensive player. Pippen realized early that he was playing with the greatest player who ever lived and carved out a defensive niche for himself. As a highly athletic player, he had the ability to score. But he had nowhere near the offensive arsenal, efficiency, shooting touch, or foot work that Pierce had. Substitute Pierce for Pippen and the Bulls do not win any less than 6 titles still.
You're conveniently ignoring that Pippen blows Pierce out of the water defensively, as well as playmaking. Pippen also had the edge rebounding the ball

And that Pippen was a low-usage second option, and Pierce was a high-usage first option.

Under those circumstances, 4 points per game is nothing.  It's especially nothing when you consider pace.  For his career, Pierce averaged 20.7 points per 100 possessions (21.4 in Boston).  Pippen averaged 24.0 points per 100 possessions (25.7 in Chicago).

Not close.


He may average more under those simulated conditions, but Pippen would still a less efficient offensive player.

It depends on how you define efficiency.  Despite Pierce's superior outside shooting (because of the modern era), Pippen leads in eFG%. 

And, "per 100 possessions" isn't a simulation.  It's adjusting for pace, but still looking at what actually happened.  Give Pippen 100 possessions (as a low-usage second option) and he'd produce 24.0 points.  Give Pierce the same 100 possessions (as a high-usage first option), and he'd score 20.7 points (while producing fewer assists and rebounds, and being an inferior defender).


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