Marcus Smart RFA [Merged - finalizing 4 year deal]

[bogg]

The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.

There was sniping by Happy Walters, but Noel signed his QO 5 days after switching agents, and that reported offer (reported by his agent himself) was off the table long before the switch.  I assume it was someone in Noel’s camp that nixed the deal, and not another agent. If Noel turned down that deal because Rich Paul told him to do so while still being represented by Walters, that might have ended up in court over the lost commission.

Fair enough, but I still got the sense Walters had wanted Noel to sign that deal, as opposed to pushing him to turn it down in order to hunt a max contract. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[The Oracle]

The more I look at this the more it comes off as having questionable representation. This is the same agent that represented Noel (who he fired)who turned down $70 million and was forced to take a minimum deal this summer. This agent doesn’t exactly have the greatest NBA clientele, almost all role players.

Wasn't there some uncertainty about who exactly advised Noel to turn down that deal? He switched representation to Klutch that summer, and I seem to remember some internet sniping between Noel's former agent and Rich Paul over the declined extension. I was left with the impression that Noel's former agent actually wanted him to sign that $70 million deal and Noel switched to Klutch looking for something in excess of $20 million a year (which obviously never materialized) rather than what was, at the time, Timo Mozgov money.

Then again, I also don't have access to the specifics and may be misremembering.

There was sniping by Happy Walters, but Noel signed his QO 5 days after switching agents, and that reported offer (reported by his agent himself) was off the table long before the switch.  I assume it was someone in Noel’s camp that nixed the deal, and not another agent. If Noel turned down that deal because Rich Paul told him to do so while still being represented by Walters, that might have ended up in court over the lost commission.

The $70 million offer the Mavs had on the table was only good until free agency opened last summer.  Happy Walters said later on that he had told Noel to take the offer and Noel declined as he wanted more.  The second free agency opened the Mavs did pull the offer off the table and it is unclear as to what the subsequent discussions were.

[Roy H.]

The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.

[nickagneta]

My guess is Danny is perfectly comfortable waiting until all potential teams with cap space have exhausted their funds, at which point Danny will approach Smart with a low ball offer (basically MLE money). Smart will then be forced to choose between that or the QO. 

I'm betting Smart takes the QO.

I agree with all this except for the wording that the MLE money, around $8.5 million is a low ball offer for Marcus. I think a 4 year $34 million offer is pretty fair calue for Smart. And if no one other than Boston is offering that, then that's his market value.

I think Smart has a severely overrated opinion of what his market value is. I blame that on poor representation. His agent should have known about the poor market for RFAs this year and known that poor offensive players, especially poor shooters that like to shoot, don't get big bucks.

I have no problem with Roy's idea of offering him an $8 million one year guaranteed contract with an option. But if Smart takes that, or the QO, is he going to be effected mentally because he feels he should be making 2 to 3 times more than that? Could he be a problem in the locker room because he will feel he has been shafted? I wonder.

[Scintan]

The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.

Golden State players aren't taking less money out of goodwill towards the team.  They are taking less in order to keep the roster together.  That's different reasoning.

I've got no problem with a team deciding to give a player a pay raise, for whatever reason.  It's their choice, and sometimes (generally when they've got a huge underpay going) it's the right thing to do.  But the idea that they should do so in order to build good will, particularly after the player turned down an offer for more money previously, makes no sense to me. 

[The Oracle]

The market hasn't shaped up the way his side hoped and it seems like it will work to the Celts benefit.

It looks like it will, for this year.

Long term, I'm not sure that it will.  I see it a lot like salary arbitration in MLB.  That stuff can lead to hurt feelings that last.  Marcus is probably particularly vulnerable to that, because 1) he runs high emotionally as a base line, and 2) he's dealing with his mother's cancer, which leaves most people emotionally raw.

If there's any way to mitigate hurt feelings, I'd explore it.

Where was Smart's good will when he reportedly passed on an offer of $11m per?

I'm generally pro-player when it comes to guys getting their money, but players don't take less money to generate good will from their teams, so why should the team do it in the other direction?  Marcus isn't going to fight with the team, settle on a contract, and then say "OK, now, for the sake of good will, let's take a million dollars per season off what we just agreed upon".

Danny has developed a reputation of being cut throat, not only to opposing GMs but to his own players. He’s well within his rights to never pay a penny more than he has to, but again citing leagues that have salary arbitration, it doesn’t seem to be the best strategy for player relationships with the team.

And, many players do take less, the guys in Golden State being a prime example.

And Marcus Smart is well within his rights to hold out or sign the QO and say he is done with the Celtics after next season.  Danny doesn't hold all the cards here as next off season looks like a bounty compared to this one and Smart would then be unrestricted.  Smart doesn't want to play on the QO next season but the C's shouldn't want that either as it could force them into a larger contract or Smart being lost for nothing and leaving them in a position where they cannot replace him.

[KGs Knee]

My guess is Danny is perfectly comfortable waiting until all potential teams with cap space have exhausted their funds, at which point Danny will approach Smart with a low ball offer (basically MLE money). Smart will then be forced to choose between that or the QO. 

I'm betting Smart takes the QO.

I agree with all this except for the wording that the MLE money, around $8.5 million is a low ball offer for Marcus. I think a 4 year $34 million offer is pretty fair calue for Smart. And if no one other than Boston is offering that, then that's his market value.

I think Smart has a severely overrated opinion of what his market value is. I blame that on poor representation. His agent should have known about the poor market for RFAs this year and known that poor offensive players, especially poor shooters that like to shoot, don't get big bucks.

I have no problem with Roy's idea of offering him an $8 million one year guaranteed contract with an option. But if Smart takes that, or the QO, is he going to be effected mentally because he feels he should be making 2 to 3 times more than that? Could he be a problem in the locker room because he will feel he has been shafted? I wonder.

Oh, I agree that anything around MLE type money is probably fair value for Smart. I've been saying that for a while. I meant that Smart would view that as a low ball offer.

As to whether or not Smart would then spend the year unhappy about it, I guess that's something Danny has to consider, but I'm not sure it's meaningful enough to overpay, or put the team over the tax threshold.

[Phantom255x]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

[nickagneta]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

[saltlover]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

[KGs Knee]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

There's some merit to this, but Ainge still has to think Smart is actually worth paying that much money.  It doesn't really matter how much Ainge thinks some other team might be willing to pay Smart as an UFA if it's more than he is comfortable with.

[playdream]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

$14-16? Nah he aren't gonna get it
Next year Smart will be playing less mins and a lesser role, there is no way his value will rise more than this year
This year is his time, he bet on it and he blew it, if he can't take the consequence of his own decision and keep whining i have no problem let him go after next season, and i love Smart

[saltlover]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

There's some merit to this, but Ainge still has to think Smart is actually worth paying that much money.  It doesn't really matter how much Ainge thinks some other team might be willing to pay Smart as an UFA if it's more than he is comfortable with.

Yes, there’s an assumption in there that Ainge agrees that Smart is worth what other teams does, or at least an amount less than that he could get Smart to agree to.

[nickagneta]

I hope they can keep him at 3/33M, or 4/42M. I feel Ainge has offered that (despite reports), BUT Smart rejected initially and wanted to test the market. With cap space drying up though, maybe Smart accepts soon OR Ainge comes back with another offer (but slightly lower)

Otherwise, I'd honestly be real shocked if Ainge truly hasn't offered Smart a multi-year deal at all to this point (at less than 12M/Year).

Gotta ask. What incentive does Ainge have to want to sign Smart to an 8 figure per year contract when no other team has come close to making him an offer this off season? The market is showing that Smart just does not have a demand for his services at $10 million a year or more. No sense for Ainge to bid against himself. Just wait for other teams to make an offer and either match it and keep him or decide to move on because its at a price thats too high for the Cs. It sucks for Smart but ultimately I think both Smart and the Celtics will be better off if Smart signs the QO or and one and one player option at about $8 million per.

The incentive Ainge has is if he thinks that teams are not offering Smart such a contract because Smart was a restricted free agent this year and all the cap room was gone by the time the moratorium was over.  If he thinks Smart will get offers in the $14-16 million range next summer, getting him for $11 million average over multiple years could turn into a long-term bargain.  If Ainge thinks that next year Smart will see the same market as he is now, despite available cap space and unrestricted free agency, then yeah, he has no incentive.

Gigantic if. Gigantic.

[byennie]

3 yrs $30M as a 2+1

Team gets him at $10M per. He gets the same money over the next two years as QO + $14M next year. He makes an extra $3M this year, a nice raise from his rookie deal. After that, he can opt to stay for $11M or go after the money.