Author Topic: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game  (Read 22011 times)

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Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #150 on: May 10, 2018, 03:59:12 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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I just did that calculation for Tatum (entire playoffs).

On court: +55
Off court: -38

There’s your ROY right there, folks.


I believe you. BTW, 3 tweets today by Justin Kubatko, creator of Basketball-Reference.com:

Quote
Jayson Tatum is the youngest player in NBA history to score at least 200 points in a single postseason.

Quote
Here's a list of all rookies who averaged at least 20 points per game in a conference-semifinals win since the 16-team playoff format was introduced in 1984:

* Jayson Tatum

(That's it.)

Quote
Jayson Tatum has scored at least 20 points in each of his last seven games, tying Donovan Mitchell for the second-longest such streak by a rookie in NBA postseason history. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar holds the record with 10 straight in 1970.

Seeing these stats and tweets just makes me wonder why there are still some folks on here or in the media that create trade packages involving Tatum. Lets build "organically" and form a dynasty with a lot of our youth/draft picks. And look at the jump Jaylen took from Year 1 to Year 2. Imagine what Tatum's could look like  :o
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Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #151 on: May 10, 2018, 04:04:00 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Seeing how the C's were able to punish the 76ers when he was their sole ball handler on the court really highlights how good the player Fultz is supposed to be will be for their team's ceiling.
It would be funny if he too couldn’t shoot. Bricklaying Backourt
Simmons did not make a single shot outside the paint the entire series. We might see the worst shooting back court of all time if and when fultz plays with simmons
Fultz should be fine.  He has been a good shooter everywhere he has played until he got hurt in summer league.
Except there isn't actual evidence that he got hurt. And he still has no jump shot now that he's supposedly been healthy for months.
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Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #152 on: May 10, 2018, 04:04:26 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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What could this guy have been doing all last year? When I go into an empty gym, I put up shots. And shots. And more shots. Yeah I’ll get in handling/post moves, but still, you put up shots.

If you put up shots, shots, shots in practice with bad mechanics, you're just going to master bad shots. In order to be a good shooter in the NBA you need to first learn solid mechanics, and THEN do the Ray Allen regimen. He's been taking short cuts his entire life like Lonzo Ball. You can't do that against world class athletes who don't give you much separation.

So you don’t think last year he had anyone from the organization with him in the gym?

The knock on him was always his shot. If they had a full year with him they should have made improvements to his form.

If he didn’t want anyone fixing his shot, that would lead me to believe he didn’t think it needed to be corrected. And as we saw from this season and especially this series, he did not trust taking anything beyond 12 feet. That means he knows it’s broken.

If they're remaking his shot, he could be in a situation like I described where he doesn't shoot in a basketball game for another X years and just acts as an athletic wing like Josh Jackson before rolling it out. I'm thinking if they start working on it now, he may have something non-humiliating within 2-3 years. By 5th year he could have a league average jump shot. But that's going to require asking a 21 year old to do nothing but work on basketball. Kobe, LeBron & Michael would do it. I don't see this kid doing it. I genuinely believe that he will never live out his potential and will fizzle out of the league like MCW did. It's already a 3 ball league and it's only getting worse, and he's so far behind everyone else. Even the worst shooting PGs had some level of offensive shot: Westbrook, Rose, etc. They all had some kind of go to shot that they were comfortable taking and could at least hit the breakeven 33% from 3pt in a pinch. This guy has nothing.

Oh c’mon, guys work on their mechanics during a summer and can overhaul it completely. I’ve honestly never heard of a five-year plan to get a kid a jumpshot. And why would they just start working on it now? Should we go look at the pre-draft scouting reports about him? That was two years ago.

This isn’t a magic trick they are perfecting behind the scenes just waiting for it to be unveiled on a primtetime special. If he had anything at all he would have been putting up 15-20 footers when there was nobody around him.

And we aren’t talking about guys who are poor shooters (like Kidd) turning decent enough to keep the defense honest. We are talking about a guy without any semblance of a jumper.

I cannot recall a point guard (or small forward, whatever he classifies himself as) so completely unwilling to take a jumper as he is. Simply uncanny.
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Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #153 on: May 10, 2018, 04:19:13 PM »

Offline colincb

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Seeing how the C's were able to punish the 76ers when he was their sole ball handler on the court really highlights how good the player Fultz is supposed to be will be for their team's ceiling.
It would be funny if he too couldn’t shoot. Bricklaying Backourt
Simmons did not make a single shot outside the paint the entire series. We might see the worst shooting back court of all time if and when fultz plays with simmons
Fultz should be fine.  He has been a good shooter everywhere he has played until he got hurt in summer league.
Except there isn't actual evidence that he got hurt. And he still has no jump shot now that he's supposedly been healthy for months.

We don't know how good he really is and I saw nothing in summer league to indicate he was as good as Tatum (not to say that he wasn't very good there). Pile that on top of his inability carrying teams before he was drafted doesn't make me think he's an elite/top 25 player even without his (apparent) anxiety issues, which may well be severe. Hope he gets well.

Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #154 on: May 10, 2018, 04:21:51 PM »

Offline Erik

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What could this guy have been doing all last year? When I go into an empty gym, I put up shots. And shots. And more shots. Yeah I’ll get in handling/post moves, but still, you put up shots.

If you put up shots, shots, shots in practice with bad mechanics, you're just going to master bad shots. In order to be a good shooter in the NBA you need to first learn solid mechanics, and THEN do the Ray Allen regimen. He's been taking short cuts his entire life like Lonzo Ball. You can't do that against world class athletes who don't give you much separation.

So you don’t think last year he had anyone from the organization with him in the gym?

The knock on him was always his shot. If they had a full year with him they should have made improvements to his form.

If he didn’t want anyone fixing his shot, that would lead me to believe he didn’t think it needed to be corrected. And as we saw from this season and especially this series, he did not trust taking anything beyond 12 feet. That means he knows it’s broken.

If they're remaking his shot, he could be in a situation like I described where he doesn't shoot in a basketball game for another X years and just acts as an athletic wing like Josh Jackson before rolling it out. I'm thinking if they start working on it now, he may have something non-humiliating within 2-3 years. By 5th year he could have a league average jump shot. But that's going to require asking a 21 year old to do nothing but work on basketball. Kobe, LeBron & Michael would do it. I don't see this kid doing it. I genuinely believe that he will never live out his potential and will fizzle out of the league like MCW did. It's already a 3 ball league and it's only getting worse, and he's so far behind everyone else. Even the worst shooting PGs had some level of offensive shot: Westbrook, Rose, etc. They all had some kind of go to shot that they were comfortable taking and could at least hit the breakeven 33% from 3pt in a pinch. This guy has nothing.

Oh c’mon, guys work on their mechanics during a summer and can overhaul it completely. I’ve honestly never heard of a five-year plan to get a kid a jumpshot. And why would they just start working on it now? Should we go look at the pre-draft scouting reports about him? That was two years ago.

This isn’t a magic trick they are perfecting behind the scenes just waiting for it to be unveiled on a primtetime special. If he had anything at all he would have been putting up 15-20 footers when there was nobody around him.

And we aren’t talking about guys who are poor shooters (like Kidd) turning decent enough to keep the defense honest. We are talking about a guy without any semblance of a jumper.

I cannot recall a point guard (or small forward, whatever he classifies himself as) so completely unwilling to take a jumper as he is. Simply uncanny.

I mean it's pretty obvious why. He doesn't have a jumper because he won't shoot one because he's a poor shooter, like Kidd. The unveil means "It's gotten good enough that he isn't losing games for his team by shooting." I'm willing to bet that his 3pt % is somewhere around 15-20%, because if it were north of 25%, even though that sucks, it's still better for him to shoot the ball to keep the defense honest. For the Sixers to concede him not shooting, he's probably closer to 15%.

Completely overhaul mechanics over the summer? You're talking about tweaks. Marcus Smart has some aspects of his jump shot that are poor. He is the prime candidate to tweak the mistakes and have a good jumper. Yet, he's been working on it for 4 years with little improvement. If you're talking about relearning how to shoot the ball, that is not easy and there is a lot of history on people never getting there -- not 5 years... try 15. I'd put Ben Simmons into the "most likely to not get there" bucket because he seems to have a lazy/uninterested demeanor which probably translates into his work ethic. I mean the guy was the reason his team lost the series and he goes up on the podium every single day looking like he doesn't care.

Just to reiterate my earlier point. If your PG concedes that he will not shoot a 3 pointer, your team does not have a pick and roll offense because the defender just goes under the pick and you've just wasted 5 seconds off the clock. The pick and roll has been the most effective NBA attack since the rise of the 3 pointer. To remove that from your team's arsenal is, in my opinion, catastrophic.

Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #155 on: May 10, 2018, 04:25:34 PM »

Offline colincb

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I just did that calculation for Tatum (entire playoffs).

On court: +55
Off court: -38

There’s your ROY right there, folks.


I believe you. BTW, 3 tweets today by Justin Kubatko, creator of Basketball-Reference.com:

Quote
Jayson Tatum is the youngest player in NBA history to score at least 200 points in a single postseason.

Quote
Here's a list of all rookies who averaged at least 20 points per game in a conference-semifinals win since the 16-team playoff format was introduced in 1984:

* Jayson Tatum

(That's it.)

Quote
Jayson Tatum has scored at least 20 points in each of his last seven games, tying Donovan Mitchell for the second-longest such streak by a rookie in NBA postseason history. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar holds the record with 10 straight in 1970.

Seeing these stats and tweets just makes me wonder why there are still some folks on here or in the media that create trade packages involving Tatum. Lets build "organically" and form a dynasty with a lot of our youth/draft picks. And look at the jump Jaylen took from Year 1 to Year 2. Imagine what Tatum's could look like  :o

After Brown and Tatum's performance in these playoffs, I'm very much of the same mindset. I was more open to another move like a KL trade before.

Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #156 on: May 10, 2018, 04:34:10 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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Philly also has to worry about Simmons' confidence. Right now, he's confident in his game, even though his shooting stinks. If they make a huge push to change how he shoots, and it doesn't work, they could wreck him. He struggled against the Celts, but he still had an impact at times, and in the regular season he was very effective. They need to proceed carefully. It's different with Fultz, he can't even get on the court now, and his confidence has already suffered. They can afford to try to rework his shot.

Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #157 on: May 10, 2018, 04:38:13 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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What could this guy have been doing all last year? When I go into an empty gym, I put up shots. And shots. And more shots. Yeah I’ll get in handling/post moves, but still, you put up shots.

If you put up shots, shots, shots in practice with bad mechanics, you're just going to master bad shots. In order to be a good shooter in the NBA you need to first learn solid mechanics, and THEN do the Ray Allen regimen. He's been taking short cuts his entire life like Lonzo Ball. You can't do that against world class athletes who don't give you much separation.

So you don’t think last year he had anyone from the organization with him in the gym?

The knock on him was always his shot. If they had a full year with him they should have made improvements to his form.

If he didn’t want anyone fixing his shot, that would lead me to believe he didn’t think it needed to be corrected. And as we saw from this season and especially this series, he did not trust taking anything beyond 12 feet. That means he knows it’s broken.

If they're remaking his shot, he could be in a situation like I described where he doesn't shoot in a basketball game for another X years and just acts as an athletic wing like Josh Jackson before rolling it out. I'm thinking if they start working on it now, he may have something non-humiliating within 2-3 years. By 5th year he could have a league average jump shot. But that's going to require asking a 21 year old to do nothing but work on basketball. Kobe, LeBron & Michael would do it. I don't see this kid doing it. I genuinely believe that he will never live out his potential and will fizzle out of the league like MCW did. It's already a 3 ball league and it's only getting worse, and he's so far behind everyone else. Even the worst shooting PGs had some level of offensive shot: Westbrook, Rose, etc. They all had some kind of go to shot that they were comfortable taking and could at least hit the breakeven 33% from 3pt in a pinch. This guy has nothing.

Oh c’mon, guys work on their mechanics during a summer and can overhaul it completely. I’ve honestly never heard of a five-year plan to get a kid a jumpshot. And why would they just start working on it now? Should we go look at the pre-draft scouting reports about him? That was two years ago.

This isn’t a magic trick they are perfecting behind the scenes just waiting for it to be unveiled on a primtetime special. If he had anything at all he would have been putting up 15-20 footers when there was nobody around him.

And we aren’t talking about guys who are poor shooters (like Kidd) turning decent enough to keep the defense honest. We are talking about a guy without any semblance of a jumper.

I cannot recall a point guard (or small forward, whatever he classifies himself as) so completely unwilling to take a jumper as he is. Simply uncanny.

I mean it's pretty obvious why. He doesn't have a jumper because he won't shoot one because he's a poor shooter, like Kidd. The unveil means "It's gotten good enough that he isn't losing games for his team by shooting." Completely overhaul mechanics over the summer? You're talking about tweaks. Marcus Smart has some aspects of his jump shot that are poor. He is the prime candidate to tweak the mistakes and have a good jumper. Yet, he's been working on it for 4 years with little improvement. If you're talking about relearning how to shoot the ball, that is not easy and there is a lot of history on people never getting there -- not 5 years... try 15. I'd put Ben Simmons into the "most likely to not get there" bucket because he seems to have a lazy/uninterested demeanor which probably translates into his work ethic. I mean the guy was the reason his team lost the series and he goes up on the podium every single day looking like he doesn't care.

Just to reiterate my earlier point. If your PG concedes that he will not shoot a 3 pointer, your team does not have a pick and roll offense because the defender just goes under the pick and you've just wasted 5 seconds off the clock. The pick and roll has been the most effective NBA attack since the rise of the 3 pointer. To remove that from your team's arsenal is, in my opinion, catastrophic.

But this isn’t about him being a poor shooter, because he’s not. Marcus Smart is a poor shooter. Lonzo Ball is a poor shooter. This kid is non-existent.

Jason Kidd was still putting up 3 treys a game as a rookie  when he couldn’t hit them and was also shooting nearby 70% from the stripe. He was still a threat, even if he was poor. But his willingness showed his confidence and demeanor which led to him honing those aspects of his game into a plus. This is like trying to turn Shaq into a decent shooter. And when you look at his shot chart and FT%, is actually an apt comparison.

Simmons has so much work to do it may actually be unprecedented. While he’s excellent on the break and has good court vision, his glaring dismal shooting capabilities will no doubt be further exploited. What went on not only the year he sat but this season are highly questionable. How could they not get him to start taking some shots in-game?
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Re: Simmons has serious Flaws in his game
« Reply #158 on: May 10, 2018, 04:38:22 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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this was just uploaded on youtube, it's a pretty good watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6UZvdYzzrY