Kyrie plays a much safer style than IT

[PhoSita]

He generates many fewer free throws, too.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

He generates many fewer free throws, too.

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

I like the flow of the game with him running the team. He shoots more efficiently, even if he generates less free throws. He also has a little better court vision.

Long-term, Thomas' health is a concern, with how many times he falls to the court and takes hits. Irving doesn't do that, which might extend his career. Is that worth two more prime seasons? Probably.

[Celtics4ever]

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

Nature of being a Celtic.  We are like a broken phone, some games we get no calls.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

Nature of being a Celtic.  We are like a broken phone, some games we get no calls.

What you did there ... I see it!

This year seems to be a lot better than last year. We lost the free throw battle every game last year, even with IT.

[GreenEnvy]

He generates many fewer free throws, too.

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

I like the flow of the game with him running the team. He shoots more efficiently, even if he generates less free throws. He also has a little better court vision.

Long-term, Thomas' health is a concern, with how many times he falls to the court and takes hits. Irving doesn't do that, which might extend his career. Is that worth two more prime seasons? Probably.

He hasn’t been more efficient than IT.

I know people fawn over how much taller he is, and he’s been very impressive to me so far. I also believe his best is yet to come, he’s got another level. His ballhandling is probably the best in the league. His shot is silky. His passing and defense has been better than advertised.

But, Isaiah is coming off a season for the ages. He was more efficient than any Kyrie season (mostly playing alongside LeBron). Kyrie can become the better player, and definitely when considering IT’s hip, but let’s not diminish what Thomas did.

Celtics were a top offensive team last season. They were I believe 4th in assists, so the ball was moving. They shot great from the line, of course led by Isaiah. Four players besides IT shot 3.5+ threes per game, so it wasn’t just one guy hoisting up shots.

If you don’t believe one great offensive player can turn a terrible offensive roster into a great offensive team, I would argue that one terrible defensive player can’t turn a great defensive roster into a terrible defensive team.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

He generates many fewer free throws, too.

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

I like the flow of the game with him running the team. He shoots more efficiently, even if he generates less free throws. He also has a little better court vision.

Long-term, Thomas' health is a concern, with how many times he falls to the court and takes hits. Irving doesn't do that, which might extend his career. Is that worth two more prime seasons? Probably.

He hasn’t been more efficient than IT.

I know people fawn over how much taller he is, and he’s been very impressive to me so far. I also believe his best is yet to come, he’s got another level. His ballhandling is probably the best in the league. His shot is silky. His passing and defense has been better than advertised.

But, Isaiah is coming off a season for the ages. He was more efficient than any Kyrie season (mostly playing alongside LeBron). Kyrie can become the better player, and definitely when considering IT’s hip, but let’s not diminish what Thomas did.

Celtics were a top offensive team last season. They were I believe 4th in assists, so the ball was moving. They shot great from the line, of course led by Isaiah. Four players besides IT shot 3.5+ threes per game, so it wasn’t just one guy hoisting up shots.

If you don’t believe one great offensive player can turn a terrible offensive roster into a great offensive team, I would argue that one terrible defensive player can’t turn a great defensive roster into a terrible defensive team.

He's talking about shooting not scoring. That's why it's comments on Kyrie not getting to the line. Kyrie has been the better shooter.

[PhoSita]

I can see the argument for Kyrie here in favor of him lasting longer than IT.  Based on how Kyrie plays, I could see him lasting another 8-9 years at a reasonably high level, whereas even without the hip injury Isaiah may have only had another 3-4 high level seasons.

Kyrie has not yet played at the level IT was at pretty much all of last year.

However, if Kyrie continues to play like a reasonably solid defensive point guard, that could get him closer to the value IT brought last year.

[mmmmm]

I can see the argument for Kyrie here in favor of him lasting longer than IT.  Based on how Kyrie plays, I could see him lasting another 8-9 years at a reasonably high level, whereas even without the hip injury Isaiah may have only had another 3-4 high level seasons.

Kyrie has not yet played at the level IT was at pretty much all of last year.

However, if Kyrie continues to play like a reasonably solid defensive point guard, that could get him closer to the value IT brought last year.

Going into this year, with both players having played 6 seasons, Thomas had missed far fewer games than Irving.

Thomas had played in 441 regular season games compared to 381 for Irving.   They've played almost identical total minutes during that span, despite Thomas having to come off the bench in all of two seasons and part of another.

So I'm not sure I buy this new narrative that Irving's style of play is necessarily 'safer' and going to keep him healthier and on the floor more than Thomas' style.

What may keep him on the court more than Isaiah going forward is simply that Thomas is currently hurt and we don't know yet if he'll ever fully recover.

Ultimately, most injuries tend to be freakish and just happen when they happen.   See:  Gordon Hayward, 2017.

[Birdman]

Kyrie is the better player..nuff said

[colincb]

IT's career Total Shooting Percentage is 58.5% vs Irving's 56.0%, a fairly substantial difference.  IT has topped Irving's TS% in 5 of the 6 years they've been in the NBA together.

There may have been valid reasons to trade for Irving (age, health, defense), but shooting was one advantage that Thomas has had consistently over Irving.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

IT's career Total Shooting Percentage is 58.5% vs Irving's 56.0%, a fairly substantial difference.  IT has topped Irving's TS% in 5 of the 6 years they've been in the NBA together.

There may have been valid reasons to trade for Irving (age, health, defense), but shooting was one advantage that Thomas has had consistently over Irving.

Not going to lie, I have seen people mention TS many times but I don't know what it is, I won't even look it up and pretend like I know what I'm taking about. All I know is Kyrie is a career 46% FG and 38% 3pt shooter and IT4 is 43%FG and 36% 3pt shooter for his career. Not counting this season because it's only 7 games and IT4 hasn't played but this is Kyries 6 to IT4s 7. Kyrie has shot 40% from 3, 3 times (1 39%) while IT4 has never shot 40% (1 39%). Kyrie has only shot 43% or less FG only once and IT4 3 times. Their highest career FG%, Ky 47% (3x) and IT4 46% (1x) and I pretty much told you highest from 3 except Kyrie has shot 41% once.

[mctyson]

Getting to the line is a huge strength, not a detriment.

Not if you fall hard to the ground a lot.  Humans are not indestructible.  That's the point of this post.

[mctyson]

IT's career Total Shooting Percentage is 58.5% vs Irving's 56.0%, a fairly substantial difference.  IT has topped Irving's TS% in 5 of the 6 years they've been in the NBA together.

There may have been valid reasons to trade for Irving (age, health, defense), but shooting was one advantage that Thomas has had consistently over Irving.

Not going to lie, I have seen people mention TS many times but I don't know what it is, I won't even look it up and pretend like I know what I'm taking about. All I know is Kyrie is a career 46% FG and 38% 3pt shooter and IT4 is 43%FG and 36% 3pt shooter for his career. Not counting this season because it's only 7 games and IT4 hasn't played but this is Kyries 6 to IT4s 7. Kyrie has shot 40% from 3, 3 times (1 39%) while IT4 has never shot 40% (1 39%). Kyrie has only shot 43% or less FG only once and IT4 3 times. Their highest career FG%, Ky 47% (3x) and IT4 46% (1x) and I pretty much told you highest from 3 except Kyrie has shot 41% once.

If I am not mistaken the TS% gives you a better rating for the amount of 3s and FTs you take, which IT did much more of during his time in Boston.

[GreenEnvy]

He generates many fewer free throws, too.

Yeah, he really hasn't gotten some calls this year, but that is the nature of their game.

I like the flow of the game with him running the team. He shoots more efficiently, even if he generates less free throws. He also has a little better court vision.

Long-term, Thomas' health is a concern, with how many times he falls to the court and takes hits. Irving doesn't do that, which might extend his career. Is that worth two more prime seasons? Probably.

He hasn’t been more efficient than IT.

I know people fawn over how much taller he is, and he’s been very impressive to me so far. I also believe his best is yet to come, he’s got another level. His ballhandling is probably the best in the league. His shot is silky. His passing and defense has been better than advertised.

But, Isaiah is coming off a season for the ages. He was more efficient than any Kyrie season (mostly playing alongside LeBron). Kyrie can become the better player, and definitely when considering IT’s hip, but let’s not diminish what Thomas did.

Celtics were a top offensive team last season. They were I believe 4th in assists, so the ball was moving. They shot great from the line, of course led by Isaiah. Four players besides IT shot 3.5+ threes per game, so it wasn’t just one guy hoisting up shots.

If you don’t believe one great offensive player can turn a terrible offensive roster into a great offensive team, I would argue that one terrible defensive player can’t turn a great defensive roster into a terrible defensive team.

He's talking about shooting not scoring. That's why it's comments on Kyrie not getting to the line. Kyrie has been the better shooter.

How can Kyrie be a more efficient shooter but TS% and eFG% (and virtually every other metric) favor IT?

[2short]

I think at this point we should all be over the trade and no longer compare Kyrie or Isiah.  Simply isn't fair to either player.
What we have this year is a point guard buying into the system, playing much better defense than I've noticed (still room to improve i.e. Getting back on defense ), incredible handle on the ball, great cohesiveness with al horford, good passing, great shooting.
No reason to bring up IT, he's gone, wish him well.