Jaylen questions changes to Celtics' culture

[guava_wrench]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

There's a not-tiny chance that by the time NO is ready to trade AD, JB will have ascended to not-available status.

I have loved Brown since we brought him in, especially learning more and more about him as a person and his work ethic...but the only way he is untradeable is if he becomes the second coming of Michael Jordan. Davis is a top 5 guy now and has generational talent written all over him, everyone is expendable for someone like Davis unfortunately. A big three of Davis, Hayward and Irving has the ability to be a title contender for 8 straight years.

How comfortable would you feel with that big three in the West this year? Davis has a twin tower thing going with Cousins and he can't even make the playoffs. Even if Jaylen will be just the next Jimmy Butler that's enough of a reason not to trade him. The difference the next several years is who is your fourth best player and fifth best player. Having three stars is not enough. If they show enough this year, then it could get to the point where I'd rather bet on the trio of Smart-Brown-Tatum blooming as a sub-big three than the singular Davis.

Even the Rockets found the "Twin Tower" thing difficult. Not sure why we would expect anyone to make the playoffs with their top two players both being centers.

And nothing "is enough" until it is. Then, when you win, everyone wants to copy it.

[slightly biased bias fan]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

There's a not-tiny chance that by the time NO is ready to trade AD, JB will have ascended to not-available status.

I have loved Brown since we brought him in, especially learning more and more about him as a person and his work ethic...but the only way he is untradeable is if he becomes the second coming of Michael Jordan. Davis is a top 5 guy now and has generational talent written all over him, everyone is expendable for someone like Davis unfortunately. A big three of Davis, Hayward and Irving has the ability to be a title contender for 8 straight years.

How comfortable would you feel with that big three in the West this year? Davis has a twin tower thing going with Cousins and he can't even make the playoffs. Even if Jaylen will be just the next Jimmy Butler that's enough of a reason not to trade him. The difference the next several years is who is your fourth best player and fifth best player. Having three stars is not enough. If they show enough this year, then it could get to the point where I'd rather bet on the trio of Smart-Brown-Tatum blooming as a sub-big three than the singular Davis.

I completely understand what you're saying but there will eventually be problems with Smart, Tatum and Brown. All three are young and want to be a star guy in some form and this is not possible with the Celtics as currently constructed. Each will want some type of max money (which we won't have) and all will want to be a starting major presence (which won't be available except of Brown). Tatum will be accepting of a bench role now but as he gets older he will want to start at small forward, unless Ainge flips Hayward in a trade (which won't happen) Tatum is stuck, he won't be fully happy or capable of starting as a power forward especially being a scoring first player...more than likely we would lose him for nothing come unrestricted free agency.

The way the GSW have put together all time deep roster is that each piece doesn't interfere with the other, Durant is the undisputed small forward, Thompson is happy with his role as defensive SG ect. They have vets coming off the bench in Iggy and Livingston, who have both experienced being 'the guy' in their career and are happy with their roles.

[Dino Pitino]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

There's a not-tiny chance that by the time NO is ready to trade AD, JB will have ascended to not-available status.

I have loved Brown since we brought him in, especially learning more and more about him as a person and his work ethic...but the only way he is untradeable is if he becomes the second coming of Michael Jordan. Davis is a top 5 guy now and has generational talent written all over him, everyone is expendable for someone like Davis unfortunately. A big three of Davis, Hayward and Irving has the ability to be a title contender for 8 straight years.

How comfortable would you feel with that big three in the West this year? Davis has a twin tower thing going with Cousins and he can't even make the playoffs. Even if Jaylen will be just the next Jimmy Butler that's enough of a reason not to trade him. The difference the next several years is who is your fourth best player and fifth best player. Having three stars is not enough. If they show enough this year, then it could get to the point where I'd rather bet on the trio of Smart-Brown-Tatum blooming as a sub-big three than the singular Davis.

I completely understand what you're saying but there will eventually be problems with Smart, Tatum and Brown. All three are young and want to be a star guy in some form and this is not possible with the Celtics as currently constructed. Each will want some type of max money (which we won't have) and all will want to be a starting major presence (which won't be available except of Brown). Tatum will be accepting of a bench role now but as he gets older he will want to start at small forward, unless Ainge flips Hayward in a trade (which won't happen) Tatum is stuck, he won't be fully happy or capable of starting as a power forward especially being a scoring first player...more than likely we would lose him for nothing come unrestricted free agency.

The way the GSW have put together all time deep roster is that each piece doesn't interfere with the other, Durant is the undisputed small forward, Thompson is happy with his role as defensive SG ect. They have vets coming off the bench in Iggy and Livingston, who have both experienced being 'the guy' in their career and are happy with their roles.

I don't see the same logjam. In the best case scenario, I see Smart contending for Sixth Man of the Year every year, Brown the starting SG, Tatum the starting PF eventually. We can keep and keep happy all six of Irving-Hayward-Horford & Smart-Brown-Tatum.

[Big333223]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

There's a not-tiny chance that by the time NO is ready to trade AD, JB will have ascended to not-available status.

I have loved Brown since we brought him in, especially learning more and more about him as a person and his work ethic...but the only way he is untradeable is if he becomes the second coming of Michael Jordan. Davis is a top 5 guy now and has generational talent written all over him, everyone is expendable for someone like Davis unfortunately. A big three of Davis, Hayward and Irving has the ability to be a title contender for 8 straight years.

How comfortable would you feel with that big three in the West this year? Davis has a twin tower thing going with Cousins and he can't even make the playoffs. Even if Jaylen will be just the next Jimmy Butler that's enough of a reason not to trade him. The difference the next several years is who is your fourth best player and fifth best player. Having three stars is not enough. If they show enough this year, then it could get to the point where I'd rather bet on the trio of Smart-Brown-Tatum blooming as a sub-big three than the singular Davis.

I completely understand what you're saying but there will eventually be problems with Smart, Tatum and Brown. All three are young and want to be a star guy in some form and this is not possible with the Celtics as currently constructed. Each will want some type of max money (which we won't have) and all will want to be a starting major presence (which won't be available except of Brown). Tatum will be accepting of a bench role now but as he gets older he will want to start at small forward, unless Ainge flips Hayward in a trade (which won't happen) Tatum is stuck, he won't be fully happy or capable of starting as a power forward especially being a scoring first player...more than likely we would lose him for nothing come unrestricted free agency.

The way the GSW have put together all time deep roster is that each piece doesn't interfere with the other, Durant is the undisputed small forward, Thompson is happy with his role as defensive SG ect. They have vets coming off the bench in Iggy and Livingston, who have both experienced being 'the guy' in their career and are happy with their roles.

I don't see the same logjam. In the best case scenario, I see Smart contending for Sixth Man of the Year every year, Brown the starting SG, Tatum the starting PF eventually. We can keep and keep happy all six of Irving-Hayward-Horford & Smart-Brown-Tatum.

Tatum was getting pushed around on the block last night but he's only 19. In 2 years, he'll probably be capable of this. A lineup of Brown/Hayward/Tatum where they're basically all the same size and interchangeably playing "swing" could be awesome in the future if they develop some real chemistry and the boys continue to develop.

[playdream]

I don't like his comment questioning Ainge's move
He needs to know Celtic culture is about the team not about one or two players
I think he will be in the package for AD now instead of AL

[PhoSita]

He's absolutely right to point this out.

It is rather disingenuous of the Celts to place so much emphasis on culture and then uproot almost the entire team in the summer after they won 53 games and made the ECF.  Shows the players that amassing talent is really what the team is about, no matter what they say about building culture.

Of course, the Celts would say that the culture really starts with Stevens and they also kept around two key aspects of the culture from previous years -- Smart and Horford.

We'll see what happens when Smart wants to get paid $15 million a year and Horford begins to decline and seems like a potential trade chip as a big matching-money contract.

[Mike Pemulis]

Yea, and I think "questioning the changes to culture" sounds harsh. It wasn't Larry Bird questioning his teammates cojones in the Finals... Technically, it's just a second year employee wondering aloud how the turnover at his job will affect the company he works for, which seems very ordinary and harmless.

[GreenEnvy]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

There's a not-tiny chance that by the time NO is ready to trade AD, JB will have ascended to not-available status.

I have loved Brown since we brought him in, especially learning more and more about him as a person and his work ethic...but the only way he is untradeable is if he becomes the second coming of Michael Jordan. Davis is a top 5 guy now and has generational talent written all over him, everyone is expendable for someone like Davis unfortunately. A big three of Davis, Hayward and Irving has the ability to be a title contender for 8 straight years.

How comfortable would you feel with that big three in the West this year? Davis has a twin tower thing going with Cousins and he can't even make the playoffs. Even if Jaylen will be just the next Jimmy Butler that's enough of a reason not to trade him. The difference the next several years is who is your fourth best player and fifth best player. Having three stars is not enough. If they show enough this year, then it could get to the point where I'd rather bet on the trio of Smart-Brown-Tatum blooming as a sub-big three than the singular Davis.

I love Brown. His game and his attitude.

But you don't think twice about trading him for AD.

Kyrie/Hayward/Davis is a great Big Three. If two of Horford/Smart/Tatum is still with us after the trade, we aren't contenders, we are favorites.

[mainevent]

I've known Jaylen since high school days at Wheeler in Marietta, Ga. My son's school was in their conference so I watched a lot of him in HS. His senior year I would tease him and tell him that he was going to play for the Celtics when he got to the NBA and it actually happened. This kid was mature far beyond his years even in HS, so none of this surprises me.  He could have gone to quite a few major D1 colleges and chose Cal because of their academic program. He's a natural born leader. I'm not only proud that he's a Celtic now, but even prouder to know him as the man he's becoming!

[tonydelk]

“[The IT / Kyrie trade] changes the whole dynamic, the whole culture. We’ll see if it’s for good or bad, time will tell. But it’s still a little weird to me, to be honest, because when I came in everything they stressed was culture, environment, Celtic basketball. Now, it’s like what is the environment, the culture, what is Celtic basketball? I think it’s a great opportunity for me, great opportunity for the Celtics, great opportunity for Kyrie. Obviously, I loved Isaiah. He was like a big brother to me. I watched him, admired him, the chip he carried on his shoulder I love him. I still do. I’ve kept in contact with him. Congratulated him when he got traded to the Cavs. It’s tough because it’s the business we live in. Do I agree with it? Not necessarily. I think Isaiah definitely tried to plant his flag in Boston. He will definitely be missed—he and Jae [Crowder] both.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/celtics-jaylen-brown-says-trading-232006797.html

I am really surprised less has been made about the Avery Bradley trade, I know it has been overshadowed by the Thomas/Kyrie trade but still if you want to talk about a culture loss you can't go past AB. He was the link to the Big Three era and was so good as a kid he forced Ray to the bench. AB worked is ass off both sides of the floor and was the most respected perimeter defender in the league. If Bradley wasn't next to Thomas I am sure that we would have been the worst defensive team in the league by some margin, AB was the definition of the perfect culture guy, I still have feint hope that we can somehow bring him back next season after acquiring Davis 

I think if Avery was still here the culture would still be easily identifiable.  IT and Jae were hard to let go but Avery had been with the C's for awhile.  The whole salary cap issue screwed the Celtics from resigning Avery.  Even if they could have kept him it would have come down to AB or Marcus.  Couldn't keep both.  I agree that it will take awhile to see who this team is.  They don't have may leaders now who have that chip on their shoulder.  Kyrie is a borderline superstar and has won a championship.  Hayward is a hardworker but is established.  Same with Al.  IT and Jae were players that were counted out.  They were told they would not be what they are.  They played with that passion and that chip and it rubbed off on the team. I will miss that but this new team can form their own identity.  They have players that are tough now.  Baynes, Morris, Smart, Jaylen and maybe Yabu or Semi will fit there as well.  The C's were finesse last year.  This year they will smack you in the lip if you come at them.

[mmmmm]

It's sad reading this knowing there's a chance Jaylen is in the bigger deal that gets us Anthony Davis   

I read the last part of that as indicating that Jaylen viewed the trade as an early and cold lesson about team<->player relations.   There is a limit to the level of personal investment a player can put into a team when there is the risk that that investment will be ripped out from under him.    Jaylen seems pretty 'woke' to the fact that he needs to protect himself as a human and a business.

And that's going to factor in to the kind of 'culture' that can be built.

[CelticsElite]

"Do I agree with it? Not necessarily."


He doesn't agree with the trade?

[CelticSooner]

He's absolutely right to point this out.

It is rather disingenuous of the Celts to place so much emphasis on culture and then uproot almost the entire team in the summer after they won 53 games and made the ECF.  Shows the players that amassing talent is really what the team is about, no matter what they say about building culture.

Of course, the Celts would say that the culture really starts with Stevens and they also kept around two key aspects of the culture from previous years -- Smart and Horford.

We'll see what happens when Smart wants to get paid $15 million a year and Horford begins to decline and seems like a potential trade chip as a big matching-money contract.

You answered the question. Stevens is the culture now just like Pop in San Antonio. He's the C's biggest asset.

We all love culture but talent wins titles. This is the most talented team the C's have had since 3 HOFs were playing in the garden. After a year of getting to know one another they'll meld like every other team before them.

[PAOBoston]

A lot of the same stuff was said when Perkins was traded too. Good guys get traded. It stinks.

[Dino Pitino]

I've known Jaylen since high school days at Wheeler in Marietta, Ga. My son's school was in their conference so I watched a lot of him in HS. His senior year I would tease him and tell him that he was going to play for the Celtics when he got to the NBA and it actually happened. This kid was mature far beyond his years even in HS, so none of this surprises me.  He could have gone to quite a few major D1 colleges and chose Cal because of their academic program. He's a natural born leader. I'm not only proud that he's a Celtic now, but even prouder to know him as the man he's becoming!

This is great!