best article i have read on trade

[clevelandceltic]

I wish national writer would get off this Danny blew it with not getting George or Butler. That take looks worse and worse by the day but its just a line that keeps getting repeated.

If they trade for Butler on draft day or PG before FA started: 1) The Cs lose 5 - 6 mil in cap space to sign Hayward. In order to make the deal work you could still trade IT, Crowder, and Zizic. 2) To free up cap space for Hayward they have to trade Smart and AB for a player that makes maybe 3 or 4 million if you plan on signing the rest of the guys that they did.

So unless the national media thinks a team with Rozier and Brown as your starting backcourt would beat the Cavs w/ without Kyrie and or the Warriors I would like to see them raise their hands because I dont see it.

I'd rather have Butler, George, Thomas, Olynyk, Zizic, Johnson, and BKN 18 then Hayward, Irving, Tatum, Smart, Morris, and BOS 18.

This isnt possible. Where did you have the salary for Butler and George? You didnt.

[csfansince60s]

I wish national writer would get off this Danny blew it with not getting George or Butler. That take looks worse and worse by the day but its just a line that keeps getting repeated.

If they trade for Butler on draft day or PG before FA started: 1) The Cs lose 5 - 6 mil in cap space to sign Hayward. In order to make the deal work you could still trade IT, Crowder, and Zizic. 2) To free up cap space for Hayward they have to trade Smart and AB for a player that makes maybe 3 or 4 million if you plan on signing the rest of the guys that they did.

So unless the national media thinks a team with Rozier and Brown as your starting backcourt would beat the Cavs w/ without Kyrie and or the Warriors I would like to see them raise their hands because I dont see it.

This. It seems pretty clear to me that Ainge wasn't going to make a trade that involved bringing back big salary before he knew what he could get in free agency. Indy and Minny didn't want to wait. That's not in his control. And I think Ainge was right, since he basically got Hayward and Morris for Bradley and Olynyk and then still had assets to trade for an all star.

Also, fwiw, I've now heard a couple of people (Zach Lowe for sure, and I think Simmons as well) say that Boston was never let into the Paul George talks.

I pretty much agree, but I think it was as much, if not more, that Chi and Indy didn't want to trade with the East as it was that teams didn't want to wait.

[clevelandceltic]

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/06/kyrie-irving-trade-celtics-nets-pick-isaiah-thomas-cavs

I think everyone analyzing this trade is getting it wrong.

All reports indicate the Boston was heavily interested in Paul George.  My guess is the package would have at least been Avery, Crowder, and the 2018 Brooklyn Pick.  I have not read one report yet that the Celtics were contacted for a last offer prior to the OKC trade.  Pritchard caused this to fall through, not the Cs.

If that trade happens, this team is a core of IT-Smart-Hayward-George-Horford.  That's pretty [dang] good and a 5-some that can beat Cleveland.

So I get the "Kyrie was the last option" angle but not really.  I think Danny was willing to go into 2018 with a risky IT and see if they could get to the Finals with that group.  If so, that group was coming back.

Have a hard time seeing them offering the Nets pick when George only had one year left.

[makaveli]

Good article.

Big issue with "not sure if the Celtics are a better team" quote.

Better than what?

In the last two seasons the Celtics are 8-32 (4-16 each season) against the Cavs, Spurs, GSW, Rox, OKC, Toronto. I may have missed by a game or two, but, this is about right.

Last season 53-29 overall
against top teams 4-16
Thus 49-13 against the weaker teams.

Two seasons 8-32 against "good" teams. The Celtics have beefed up on weak teams and have been essentially unable to beat the six best teams. My irritation with the Celtics being referred to as the "third best team in the NBA" will be relieved when they start beating the six teams that are better than they are.

The Celtics are a far better team now. They will be .500 against these top teams this season which beats the spit out of .250. This will occur because they have assembled a balanced roster that includes  "playoff level starters" above average scoring and an athletic bench that might be pretty good by May/June.

The Rondo Bulls almost ran the Celtics out of the gym.
It took seven to beat the vaunted Bullets.
The Celtics looked like a D league team against the Cavs, it was an embarrassment.

"Are they a better team?"

Far better as they weren't that good in the first place.

this is a great reality check post.
i love isaiah and he will be one of my all time favorite players / celtics
in 2,5 years he made such an impact on the city and the team and he will be remembered forever by us who seen him play against the odds and excel.
BUT
our last year playoff rollercoaster ride very easily could have goon to a different direction, for instance if the bulls eliminated us, like they looked to do it after 2-0 hole.

Danny knows that, he knows that it is a big gamble to role with IT on helm, and i think the Cavs will find that out, come playoff time.

A great article from IT, i really love him, i've bought his jersey 5 min after his 52 point game, and i wish him all the luck in the world.

THE LITTLE GUY!!!! - i will miss that, but i'm sure tommy will call him the same even in the other jersey.

[obnoxiousmime]

All of the Celtics' decisions make more sense this offseason if you assume:

1) They may not have had a guarantee, but they had some backchannel positive feedback from Hayward about signing here. That's why there was no chatter whatsoever about any Butler talks, which was odd considering his contract and also the fact that Ainge had attempted to trade for him before, as late as the trade deadline. If the article is true, they did know Hayward was lukewarm to playing with Butler. The Butler deal happened before free agency even started, so there was already some communication there.

2) Thomas' injury is more serious than was initially reported. Even if it's not career threatening, it definitely has the potential to affect him this season and potentially into next season when he decided not to have surgery.

3) Ainge really doesn't like Markelle Fultz.

[green_bballers13]

One thing I don't understand: why do people argue that IT is likely to be hampered by his hip *and* likely to receive a $30 million per year contract? Isn't it one or the other?

Neither seemed like good results.

Kyrie in 2023 will prob. be better than IT.

[Big333223]

One thing I don't understand: why do people argue that IT is likely to be hampered by his hip *and* likely to receive a $30 million per year contract? Isn't it one or the other?

Neither seemed like good results.

Kyrie in 2023 will prob. be better than IT.

Given health concerns, their new roles, and an edge in talent that I give to Kyrie, I imagine that will be true for 2023, 2018, and every year in between.

[Erik]

One thing I don't understand: why do people argue that IT is likely to be hampered by his hip *and* likely to receive a $30 million per year contract? Isn't it one or the other?

Because in the NBA with dumb teams like the sixers, lakers and nets who just throw money at the wall and hope it sticks, someone is going to offer him the max, injury or not. So the decision really comes down to if WE want to offer him the max or will he walk for free ? I think IT genuinely loves Boston but money is money.

[cman88]

its sad to see IT4 go, but the most interesting thing ainge/wyc said was "kyrie fits our timeline better"

to me, that means they arent looking at winning championships this year, but in 2-3 years when Golden state are old, the cavs are gone and tatum/brown have a couple years of development under their belts. at that time Kyrie will still be in his prime.

[rollie mass]

Ainge doesn't like Markelle Fultz-the guy comes off entitled,lazy hazey kind of personality shot terrible at  philly workout also

[Beat LA]

The Crossover  by Andrew Sharp  "The Kylie Trade Was The Only Move Left For Celtics" out 2 hrs ago---Sports Illustrated
Enjoy this interpretation and why the Celts  had to move on Kylie and give up the Nets pick
Why we missed out or failed to pursue  george
Why we passed on Butler
And timeline and Hayward
Isaiah and hip and max

Minogue or Jenner?

[Casperian]

How about the option to not do anything at all? Opportunity cost is a thing, you know?

We basically paid a BRK pick, an allstar PG, the supposedly best value contract in the NBA and a promising, young big men to get four years younger at PG, the most loaded position in the NBA.

The PG we got isn't even top 5 in his position, and a chucker to boot. We're asking Lebron's sidekick to lead us past Lebron (and further).

All that for a team that ultimately has zero chance to win it all.

Yeah, the draft might be a crapshoot, but I still rather see what's behind door #3, Monty.

[mctyson]

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/06/kyrie-irving-trade-celtics-nets-pick-isaiah-thomas-cavs

I think everyone analyzing this trade is getting it wrong.

All reports indicate the Boston was heavily interested in Paul George.  My guess is the package would have at least been Avery, Crowder, and the 2018 Brooklyn Pick.  I have not read one report yet that the Celtics were contacted for a last offer prior to the OKC trade.  Pritchard caused this to fall through, not the Cs.

If that trade happens, this team is a core of IT-Smart-Hayward-George-Horford.  That's pretty [dang] good and a 5-some that can beat Cleveland.

So I get the "Kyrie was the last option" angle but not really.  I think Danny was willing to go into 2018 with a risky IT and see if they could get to the Finals with that group.  If so, that group was coming back.

Have a hard time seeing them offering the Nets pick when George only had one year left.

Kyrie has 2 years left and they gave up the Nets Pick, IT, Crowder, and Zizic to get him.

There is no doubt in my mind a similar package would be worth it for George, only if Indiana was run by a sane and competent human.

[clevelandceltic]

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/09/06/kyrie-irving-trade-celtics-nets-pick-isaiah-thomas-cavs

I think everyone analyzing this trade is getting it wrong.

All reports indicate the Boston was heavily interested in Paul George.  My guess is the package would have at least been Avery, Crowder, and the 2018 Brooklyn Pick.  I have not read one report yet that the Celtics were contacted for a last offer prior to the OKC trade.  Pritchard caused this to fall through, not the Cs.

If that trade happens, this team is a core of IT-Smart-Hayward-George-Horford.  That's pretty [dang] good and a 5-some that can beat Cleveland.

So I get the "Kyrie was the last option" angle but not really.  I think Danny was willing to go into 2018 with a risky IT and see if they could get to the Finals with that group.  If so, that group was coming back.

Have a hard time seeing them offering the Nets pick when George only had one year left.

Kyrie has 2 years left and they gave up the Nets Pick, IT, Crowder, and Zizic to get him.

There is no doubt in my mind a similar package would be worth it for George, only if Indiana was run by a sane and competent human.

Maybe but not likely. PG has one year on his deal and there are strong rumors of him going to LA. You dont just dump the Nets pick unless you think he will resign

[Rosco917]

It's crazy, the same guys that would call for the head of Danny, if we signed a permanently damaged IT for Max money, and destroyed our cap space for years to come, are crying over Danny doing what is best for the organization. That's his job.

All anyone can do, is play the odds on the best information they have at hand. Emotion has no part in it at all. Sometimes it's difficult, and it hurts, but this was the best move for the Celtics.

This is all reminiscent of the hot debates that were had when Rondo was traded, and now 3 years later Rondo is still bouncing from team to team for what ever reason, finding little success.

That trade, like this one was a good trade, and necessary to hopefully keep the organization moving forward. We have no guarantees.