Re-grade Danny offseason (poll)

[max215]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

[hwangjini_1]

well, it seems that ainge of that opinion.

[Chris22]

Danny Ainge is a genius.
Love the complete turnover of the team.
We are no longer the 98 lb weakling of the NBA.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Danny Ainge is a genius.
Love the complete turnover of the team.
We are no longer the 98 lb weakling of the NBA.

You're a genius.
Love you.
Yep, just our PG is.

[Vermont Green]

There is just so much up in the air regarding this off season its hard to give it a grade.

Will Tatum end up a better pro than Fultz?
Will the Brooklyn pick end up a better player than the LA/Sactown pick?
Will Kyrie be better than IT over the next 4-6 years?
Is Zizic any good and a bad throw in to match salary?
Will Hayward still be an All-Star quality player and worth the max salary slot?

So hard. Short term....B+. Long term could be a A+ to a D depending on how things work out.

Is this really the right question to ask?  Fultz could turn out better than Tatum and we could still win the trade depending on how the Lakers/Sac/Philly pick works out.  I fully believe that Danny got the player he wanted plus another pick.  I'll take that.

[Tr1boy]

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

IT played in a way better system and was the focal point, as well.  Kyrie is about to be in a much better offense, and he's 25.  Age matters in potential, but also how much each player gets paid.

Context is important in the comparison.

IT was great but I can't see him getting any better.  And even Kyrie is an important improvement on defense.

Kyrie isn't an improvement on defense.

Our offense was "better" in large part due to IT.  He's more of a willing passer and less of a ISO player than Kyrie.  Kyrie took more shots than IT last year, and had Lebron setting him up.  It's not a given that he's going to improve individually, or that our offense will improve collectively.

In terms of getting paid, Kyrie will make more than IT in every season other than 2018-19. That does matter next season for the luxury tax, but it's not a gigantic consideration.

Kyrie has the potential to get better, for sure. There's also the possibility that he's a worse fit or isn't up to the task leadership-wise.

Who pounded the ball more...IT or Kyrie?

[green_bballers13]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

I agree. Stating that Tatum is the best in the draft is prob a stretch. At the same time, it's hard to make the case that anyone else in the draft was a better fit for the Celtics than Tatum.  It should say "Danny got his top player in the draft". That's the part that prob. matters more than our opinion of the drafted players.

Re: Kyrie, I think his best basketball is in front of him. I think he will be able to thrive in an envt where isn't looking over his shoulder to see Lebron. Hayward and Horford are excellent 2nd and 3rd scoring options that are versatile defensively. Kyrie's iso game is elite. I get it if you don't like iso scorers. The issue is Golden State has two (Steph, KD) and CLE has two  (Lebron and IT). To match these teams, the Celtics need to be able to score a million points a night.

The Celtics added Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, and Jayson Tatum in one offseason. Kyrie can definitely score at will, and Tatum should be able to eventually. Hayward is most likely going to be a very good systems player that can do everything at an above average level, similar to Horford.

I honestly don't know how you can't be excited by this future team.

Irving/Rozier
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Tatum/Semi
Morris/Yabu
Horford/Baynes

Four scorers, including one elite one, Kyrie Irving.

[Roy H.]

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

IT played in a way better system and was the focal point, as well.  Kyrie is about to be in a much better offense, and he's 25.  Age matters in potential, but also how much each player gets paid.

Context is important in the comparison.

IT was great but I can't see him getting any better.  And even Kyrie is an important improvement on defense.

Kyrie isn't an improvement on defense.

Our offense was "better" in large part due to IT.  He's more of a willing passer and less of a ISO player than Kyrie.  Kyrie took more shots than IT last year, and had Lebron setting him up.  It's not a given that he's going to improve individually, or that our offense will improve collectively.

In terms of getting paid, Kyrie will make more than IT in every season other than 2018-19. That does matter next season for the luxury tax, but it's not a gigantic consideration.

Kyrie has the potential to get better, for sure. There's also the possibility that he's a worse fit or isn't up to the task leadership-wise.

Who pounded the ball more...IT or Kyrie?

Kyrie. He held the ball more seconds per touch and more dribbles per touch than IT.  That's despite having the best player in basketball playing beside him.

[max215]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

I agree. Stating that Tatum is the best in the draft is prob a stretch. At the same time, it's hard to make the case that anyone else in the draft was a better fit for the Celtics than Tatum.  It should say "Danny got his top player in the draft".

At the top of the draft, the only thing worth worrying about is talent.

[Alleyoopster]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

I think just about every GM in the League is stuck in a bind with the latest CBA. Players are making incredible amounts of money and somehow GM's have to find a way to keep or acquire the top talent and not excessively exceed the salary cap level.

I graded Danny rather harshly in previous polls, but not so sure it's warranted given the rock and the hard place dilemma he faces. However, it really rankles me that we gave up the Nets pick. Another issue is having grown attached to players who were quite productive last season. And, then to see them traded away or signed elsewhere.   

To me, and even to many basketball pundits, we are a weaker defensive team this year. On the other hand we have some sorely needed shooters. This is what I've been craving for for years. For once we won't be relying on one player to keep the scoring momentum going. We'll have several good shooters.

If I were to give a failing grade it would be to this current collective bargaining agreement, not Danny. He's doing the best he can given the circumstances. Over the past two years he's had to give up on key players (Evan, Kelly and Avery) simply due to salary considerations. Something needs to change in the NBA. Otherwise, it's going to become a glorified Fantasy Basketball League. 

[green_bballers13]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

I agree. Stating that Tatum is the best in the draft is prob a stretch. At the same time, it's hard to make the case that anyone else in the draft was a better fit for the Celtics than Tatum.  It should say "Danny got his top player in the draft".

At the top of the draft, the only thing worth worrying about is talent.

Usually I'd agree. This was a unique year where the best team in the ECF had the #1 pick. They already had a rebuild plan underway loaded up with assets. Instead of Fultz or Ball, they went with Kyrie. In my opinion, the Celtics were going with IT and/or Kyrie over Fultz/Ball. I would do this as well.

So... if they're not taking a PG, the next best player was Jayson Tatum. I like(d) him more than Jackson.

In my eyes, the trade for a future top pick from LAL/SAC (making the BKN pick available) for the best available PG (Kyrie) and best SF in the draft (Tatum), along with one of the best FA's (Hayward) makes this offseason a big win and the best since KG/Ray.

Anything less than a A-/B+ is nuts.

[CelticsElite]

I think the Kyrie trade brought us from an A- to a B-.

is it mostly because of losing the BKN pick?

Mostly. It's rare that you give up the player who had a better season, another starter, and a coveted lottery pick for a guy with similar flaws to the top player you traded away.

Last year, IT was simply better than Kyrie, and it wasn't particularly close. If Kyrie plays at last year's level, we need to fill the production gap of IT, plus Crowder, while also accounting for the future loss of the BRK pick and Zizic.

Kyrie absolutely demolished us against our two best defenders in the playoffs last year. Whenever we were closing the gap, Kyrie went on a tear and scored at will on what we considered elite defenders.

That, combined with IT still rehabbing from a serious injury that he may never return to form from, and that he is due a max deal and is older than Kyrie, it is no comparison imo. Kyrie is easily better and can get even better soon, whereas IT is about to hit his downward slope. Huge win for Ainge in this deal.

Overall, easily an A+ for this offseason. This is the offseason we were waiting for. We got the top player in the draft, signed the top FA on the market, and traded for one of the best young scorers in the NBA. Amazing offseason.

Wooooaaaaaaahhhhh there, buddy.

I agree. Stating that Tatum is the best in the draft is prob a stretch. At the same time, it's hard to make the case that anyone else in the draft was a better fit for the Celtics than Tatum.  It should say "Danny got his top player in the draft". That's the part that prob. matters more than our opinion of the drafted players.

Re: Kyrie, I think his best basketball is in front of him. I think he will be able to thrive in an envt where isn't looking over his shoulder to see Lebron. Hayward and Horford are excellent 2nd and 3rd scoring options that are versatile defensively. Kyrie's iso game is elite. I get it if you don't like iso scorers. The issue is Golden State has two (Steph, KD) and CLE has two  (Lebron and IT). To match these teams, the Celtics need to be able to score a million points a night.

The Celtics added Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, and Jayson Tatum in one offseason. Kyrie can definitely score at will, and Tatum should be able to eventually. Hayward is most likely going to be a very good systems player that can do everything at an above average level, similar to Horford.

I honestly don't know how you can't be excited by this future team.

Irving/Rozier
Smart/Brown
Hayward/Tatum/Semi
Morris/Yabu
Horford/Baynes

Four scorers, including one elite one, Kyrie Irving.

greatly worded

[Chris22]

Danny Ainge is a genius.
Love the complete turnover of the team.
We are no longer the 98 lb weakling of the NBA.

You're a genius.
Love you.
Yep, just our PG is.

Sorry, that was our old point guard.
LOL

[Phantom255x]

Have to admit though, the Celtics certainly look more formidable in the NBA and gone is the "weak #1 seed in history" and "pretender team of overachievers" look we keep getting from the national/local media.

I had the offseason grade at a solid B before the Irving trade. Now have it at B- (so I guess it's a B in this poll)

[green_bballers13]

Have to admit though, the Celtics certainly look more formidable in the NBA and gone is the "weak #1 seed in history" and "pretender team of overachievers" look we keep getting from the national/local media.

I had the offseason grade at a solid B before the Irving trade. Now have it at B- (so I guess it's a B in this poll)

What is your B- compared to? Previous years, or other teams this year?

I don't understand how Hayward and Tatum alone couldn't make this year a B+. Adding Kyrie improves the Celtics.