Thoughts on Yabusele or Semi? Do they have potential to be our PF of the future?

[ThePaintedArea]

I don't know what to expect, but I am very curious whether the Cavs would have accepted any of the C's young salaries (Yabu, Zizic, Semi or Nader) to make the deal work and Danny elected to go with Ante.

 Safe to say they wanted Zizic. He got high praise recently, people think he would have been a top 10 pick this year. I don't think so. Top 15 Sure.

I don't know who those people are, but I'm not one of them. "20xx Draft the Way It Should Have Been" debates are too theoretical for me anyway.

He's got some abilities: finishes through contact, fights for rebounds, relentless, runs the floor, coachable. I think a reliable elbow jumper is well within reach.

We all have our biases - I tend to favor players who have good movement, for example. Ante, for all his virtues, does not move well. Burst, jumping, second jump, acceleration, lateral movement - all are challenges for him. 20 years ago, this would have been less of a problem for his NBA future; but the game has evolved.

As far as playing on the Celtics goes, it would have helped his cause if they could put him up top like Olynyk or Horford, and have him make a choice and deliver a pass, or if he could shoot with range. Those things look like a pretty steep climb for him (though he's still very young).

I'm confident that he'll never be a regular starter in the league.  Can he be a rotation player on the Cavaliers? He's behind at least Thompson, Frye, and even Love (who got a few minutes as the lone big last year). I'd bet against it, but there's definitely an opportunity.  Check back in April! 

[moiso]

Semi is going to be a better player than Crowder...mark my words. He was at Duke before transferring and the guy can play.

Highly doubt it.  More likely to be Bill Walker than Crowder or Draymond Greeen.  Someone just claimed that Semi has high bball IQ... I definitely don't see anything resembling a high IQ on offense.  Draymond has a super high IQ.

[PickNRoll]

Only in small ball lineups is the real answer.

I think Yabusele is going to be a much better player than Semi.

I will take that bet.  I think Yabusele could struggle with NBA players but I hope I am wrong about that.

I will also take that bet.  Semi is NBA-ready.  He comes in with a very mature game, a high IQ player.  He's a remarkable athlete, with Crowder-like strength and insane burst (vertically) for a guy his size.  He throws down vicious 2-handed dunks from a standstill (compare to Crowder).  He plays way above the rim and he's a quick leaper, 40.5 in vert.  He has a quick release and the potential to be a 40% 3pt shooter.  He posted the 3rd and 8th best results in agility and sprint, respectively, in the entire draft class at the combine.  6'7 with a 6'9.75 wingspan.  I'd bet on him being an NBA starter.

I'll take that bet, too.

Strength and leverage to guard bigger players, great laterals and hops, has the instinct to "dance" with the man he's guarding... Big repertoire of finishing moves around the basket is another sign of his remarkable work ethic.

I heard that he had the most efficient pick and pop game in the NCAA last year.

I agree, good chance he becomes a starter in the league.

Yabusele is a wildcard.  There's not much precedent for guys with his body type being standout players.  At 6'8, 270lbs he's carrying a lot of bulk.  He carries it well, for now, but how do his knees, back, and feet hold up under that stress over the 82 game grind?  We're already seeing signs.

I'm not aware of those "signs" you're pointing to.

He already had a foot surgery that kept him out of summer league.

[PickNRoll]

Semi is going to be a better player than Crowder...mark my words. He was at Duke before transferring and the guy can play.

Highly doubt it.  More likely to be Bill Walker than Crowder or Draymond Greeen.  Someone just claimed that Semi has high bball IQ... I definitely don't see anything resembling a high IQ on offense.  Draymond has a super high IQ.

Semi has more game in his big toe than Bill Walker.  Semi was conference player of the year just like, guess who, Jae Crowder.  That was in his first real season after riding pine at Duke.

18.9ppg
6.8 rebs
42.4% from 3 on 4.9 attempts per game

He's an impact defender, like Crowder.  He's not a game changer like Draymond.  Draymond is quicker and has an alien 7' wingspan.  Semi has a respectable 6'9.75".  Draymond is a great passer, Semi isn't.  Totally different players.  Crowder, however, is a decent comp, but Semi is WAY more explosive.  Semi comes in as a better pure shooter than Crowder too.

[PickNRoll]

Check this vid for some good analysis of Semi:

https://youtu.be/_p_MXyYJu0I

[The One]

I just want them both to walk around with their shirts off...so that the other team cowers in a corner and drops into the fetal position.

[ThePaintedArea]

Only in small ball lineups is the real answer.

I think Yabusele is going to be a much better player than Semi.

I will take that bet.  I think Yabusele could struggle with NBA players but I hope I am wrong about that.

I will also take that bet.  Semi is NBA-ready.  He comes in with a very mature game, a high IQ player.  He's a remarkable athlete, with Crowder-like strength and insane burst (vertically) for a guy his size.  He throws down vicious 2-handed dunks from a standstill (compare to Crowder).  He plays way above the rim and he's a quick leaper, 40.5 in vert.  He has a quick release and the potential to be a 40% 3pt shooter.  He posted the 3rd and 8th best results in agility and sprint, respectively, in the entire draft class at the combine.  6'7 with a 6'9.75 wingspan.  I'd bet on him being an NBA starter.

I'll take that bet, too.

Strength and leverage to guard bigger players, great laterals and hops, has the instinct to "dance" with the man he's guarding... Big repertoire of finishing moves around the basket is another sign of his remarkable work ethic.

I heard that he had the most efficient pick and pop game in the NCAA last year.

I agree, good chance he becomes a starter in the league.

Yabusele is a wildcard.  There's not much precedent for guys with his body type being standout players.  At 6'8, 270lbs he's carrying a lot of bulk.  He carries it well, for now, but how do his knees, back, and feet hold up under that stress over the 82 game grind?  We're already seeing signs.

I'm not aware of those "signs" you're pointing to.

He already had a foot surgery that kept him out of summer league.

Aha. Missed that.

Possible ramifications of this surgery:

1) Apparently they shaved off bone spurs on the top of the foot. This is minimally invasive (what the doc is after is right under the skin), and it's just getting rid of extra bone, not the normal bone. After recovery (quick prognosis, I would think) he should feel better than before the surgery, and put a spring in his step. They did it early enough that he should be able to show his stuff in the Big Show this Fall. So far so good.

But...

2) Bone spurs occur where there is stress on the bone - so the stress is coming from pressure from above. There's probably a pronation bias. The problem could recur, because the stress will probably continue. Continual work on stretching, shaping, supinating to counteract the bias - AND he can't put on weight.

I've heard that he has low body fat - all to the good.

[ThePaintedArea]

Check this vid for some good analysis of Semi:

https://youtu.be/_p_MXyYJu0I

That guy is very smart. And he makes a pretty bold claim: he compares Semi to Draymond Green, and says that he'll be a star.

Love how this guy breaks Ojeleye's finishing around the rim into three categories: power (finishing through contact, a good way to get to the FT line), finesse (has quite a repertoire), and explozive...

[PickNRoll]

Aha. Missed that.

Possible ramifications of this surgery:

1) Apparently they shaved off bone spurs on the top of the foot. This is minimally invasive (what the doc is after is right under the skin), and it's just getting rid of extra bone, not the normal bone. After recovery (quick prognosis, I would think) he should feel better than before the surgery, and put a spring in his step. They did it early enough that he should be able to show his stuff in the Big Show this Fall. So far so good.

But...

2) Bone spurs occur where there is stress on the bone - so the stress is coming from pressure from above. There's probably a pronation bias. The problem could recur, because the stress will probably continue. Continual work on stretching, shaping, supinating to counteract the bias - AND he can't put on weight.

I've heard that he has low body fat - all to the good.

Sounds like you know a lot about the foot rehab, so I defer.  I agree that he seems to be very fit and have a relatively low body fat %.  The flip side is that he has no weight to lose.  He's just a gigantic man with a thick frame.  In 40 years of watching the NBA, I can't think of any 6'8", 270lb guys who had extended careers.

Oliver Miller - 6'9" 280
Big Baby - 6'9" 290
Ron Artest - (old version) - 6'7" 260
Karl Malone - 6'9 250
Robert Traylor - 6'9" 290
Tyler Hansbrough - 6'9" 250
Boris Diaw - 6'8" 250

Lebron doesn't count.  He's an alien.

[CelticsElite]

Hard to say

[moiso]

Aha. Missed that.

Possible ramifications of this surgery:

1) Apparently they shaved off bone spurs on the top of the foot. This is minimally invasive (what the doc is after is right under the skin), and it's just getting rid of extra bone, not the normal bone. After recovery (quick prognosis, I would think) he should feel better than before the surgery, and put a spring in his step. They did it early enough that he should be able to show his stuff in the Big Show this Fall. So far so good.

But...

2) Bone spurs occur where there is stress on the bone - so the stress is coming from pressure from above. There's probably a pronation bias. The problem could recur, because the stress will probably continue. Continual work on stretching, shaping, supinating to counteract the bias - AND he can't put on weight.

I've heard that he has low body fat - all to the good.

Sounds like you know a lot about the foot rehab, so I defer.  I agree that he seems to be very fit and have a relatively low body fat %.  The flip side is that he has no weight to lose.  He's just a gigantic man with a thick frame.  In 40 years of watching the NBA, I can't think of any 6'8", 270lb guys who had extended careers.

Oliver Miller - 6'9" 280
Big Baby - 6'9" 290
Ron Artest - (old version) - 6'7" 260
Karl Malone - 6'9 250
Robert Traylor - 6'9" 290
Tyler Hansbrough - 6'9" 250
Boris Diaw - 6'8" 250

Lebron doesn't count.  He's an alien.

I don't think the old weights were accurate.  It seems like the players usually kept the weights they were drafted at for a large portion of their careers.  I mean, I remember mid career Pat Ewing being listed at 230lbs.  And their is no way Hansbrough and even Lebron weigh as much Karl Malone did.  Looking at that list there is no way Hansbrough is within 25lbs of Diaw.

[Celtics4ever]

Oliver Miller - 6'9" 280
Big Baby - 6'9" 290
Ron Artest - (old version) - 6'7" 260
Karl Malone - 6'9 250
Robert Traylor - 6'9" 290
Tyler Hansbrough - 6'9" 250
Boris Diaw - 6'8" 250

All these guys are taller than Yabu or Semi.   Some of them have good metrics and some done.   But a big difference between being 6-9 and 6-6.    Makes ever a stronger argument nope, unless we are playing small ball.

[keevsnick]

I mean based purely off from there draft position probably not. Yabu was a projected late first or second who we took 16 because he was stashable, and Semi was a projected late first who we got early second. Guys in the late first get you a starter you are very lucky, I'd take either one being a solid NBA rotation player.

[PickNRoll]

Aha. Missed that.

Possible ramifications of this surgery:

1) Apparently they shaved off bone spurs on the top of the foot. This is minimally invasive (what the doc is after is right under the skin), and it's just getting rid of extra bone, not the normal bone. After recovery (quick prognosis, I would think) he should feel better than before the surgery, and put a spring in his step. They did it early enough that he should be able to show his stuff in the Big Show this Fall. So far so good.

But...

2) Bone spurs occur where there is stress on the bone - so the stress is coming from pressure from above. There's probably a pronation bias. The problem could recur, because the stress will probably continue. Continual work on stretching, shaping, supinating to counteract the bias - AND he can't put on weight.

I've heard that he has low body fat - all to the good.

Sounds like you know a lot about the foot rehab, so I defer.  I agree that he seems to be very fit and have a relatively low body fat %.  The flip side is that he has no weight to lose.  He's just a gigantic man with a thick frame.  In 40 years of watching the NBA, I can't think of any 6'8", 270lb guys who had extended careers.

Oliver Miller - 6'9" 280
Big Baby - 6'9" 290
Ron Artest - (old version) - 6'7" 260
Karl Malone - 6'9 250
Robert Traylor - 6'9" 290
Tyler Hansbrough - 6'9" 250
Boris Diaw - 6'8" 250

Lebron doesn't count.  He's an alien.

I don't think the old weights were accurate.  It seems like the players usually kept the weights they were drafted at for a large portion of their careers.  I mean, I remember mid career Pat Ewing being listed at 230lbs.  And their is no way Hansbrough and even Lebron weigh as much Karl Malone did.  Looking at that list there is no way Hansbrough is within 25lbs of Diaw.

Yeah, I'm just going off of Wikipedia.  I think Lebron actually does weigh as much as a prime Karl Malone.  I had some courtside seats once and it is startling how massive he is in person.  Having watched him hundreds of times I didn't really get it until I stood next to him. He's like a futuristic robot tight end with tree trunk thighs and calfs and zero body fat, but proportions like a middleweight (160lb) fighter.  It's unreal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NR8H1YnlYU

[bellerephon]

Personally I think some people are way to optimistic on Semi. It is possible that he will end up being the steal of the draft and play a major role in the NBA, but I think it is highly unlikely. He had some good moments in the summer league, but he is far from NBA ready. I doubt that he will see much more than some garbage time minutes unless injuries force him into the lineup. We go through this every year, people latch onto some long shot in the hopes that he is the next IT or Draymond, I just don't see it. Don't get me wrong, I'll be ecstatic if Semi is as good as you all hope, but I would be totally shocked. I expect him to be a star, in the G-league.