Adam Silver needs to intervene w/ trade. (Stern intervened w/ Jeff Green trade)

[Fafnir]

You can say the pick was only on the table because of IT's injury but no one knows why what components of the deal were negotiated. The Celtics can feel jilted all they want but if the Cav's weren't going to waive the physical as part of the deal on the trade call then this was always a possibility.

A third party isn't going to be able to settle anything because if the C's were completely truthful about the hip is irrelevant if they didn't secure a waiver of the physical in the actual trade the league approved.

[kozlodoev]

Yes thats the rule, the problem is that the IT wasn't going to pass the test no matter what, and the Cavs new this going in. DA put the Nets pick with out conditions on the table because they knew Thomas wasn't going to be ready at the start of the season. But now the Cavs are claiming something different than what the C's have claimed. I doubt DA wasn't 100% up front with is. He's been part of these things on both ends to know not to hide things.

 But the Cavs have a different opinion on how the hip should be treated, and who's to say their right? They could be saying surgery, but in reality just needs a couple more months of rehab. This is wear you almost need a third party to evaluate IT to see who's in the right.

All of that is completely irrelevant. The only relevant thing is whether the Cavs will declare that they're satisfied with the physical's results. No-one can force them to be satisfied, and they're free to walk away from this deal. The only thing they bear here is the damage their reputation may suffer for the purpose of future trades.

[Big333223]

Maybe what some people are getting confused by is the "passing" part of the physical. As far as I know it's up to the receiving team to say a player "passed" his physical. Injured players get traded all the time even if they can't, technically, "pass" their physicals but if the receiving team wants them, that team can give them a "pass" anyway.

The league requires the physical be taken but it's still up to the receiving team to say whether or not the player "passes."

[bdm860]

if the deal didn't complete, why did the nba announce it

https://instagram.com/p/BYHgMlilKmE/

if the trade wasn't official, why were the press conferences from ainge on the trade? Why did the nba post a picture welcoming kyrie to Boston ?

Straight from the C's own site, trade announcements and press conferences are usually held well before a trade is officially complete.   Garnett had his first press conference in Boston on 7/31 but the trade wasn't actually official until 8/7.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/news/blog/inside-front-office.html?rss=true

9.   Reporting and Physicals... As a result of the reporting deadlines and required physicals and certifications, a trade usually doesn't become "official" until long after it is announced at a press conference. For example, this past summer we traded for Kevin Garnett on July 31st. The trade call ended just before 1PM that afternoon, and Garnett immediately flew into town for a press conference that evening with Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. However, the trade was not officially complete until nearly a week later, on August 7th, at 6:00 PM, when the league informed both teams that all conditions (including physicals and certifications) had been met.

[kozlodoev]

The league requires the physical be taken but it's still up to the receiving team to say whether or not the player "passes."

The league requires that the receiving team signs off on the physical condition of the player. I'm not even sure they formally require an actual medical examination, although most teams do that anyhow.

[Big333223]

The league requires the physical be taken but it's still up to the receiving team to say whether or not the player "passes."

The league requires that the receiving team signs off on the physical condition of the player. I'm not even sure they formally require an actual medical examination, although most teams do that anyhow.

TP

[Fafnir]

This whole thing is weird because it seems like both teams were proceeding like the physicals would be waived, hence the early announcement of the deal by team officials.

[Sketch5]

Yes thats the rule, the problem is that the IT wasn't going to pass the test no matter what, and the Cavs new this going in. DA put the Nets pick with out conditions on the table because they knew Thomas wasn't going to be ready at the start of the season. But now the Cavs are claiming something different than what the C's have claimed. I doubt DA wasn't 100% up front with is. He's been part of these things on both ends to know not to hide things.

 But the Cavs have a different opinion on how the hip should be treated, and who's to say their right? They could be saying surgery, but in reality just needs a couple more months of rehab. This is wear you almost need a third party to evaluate IT to see who's in the right.

All of that is completely irrelevant. The only relevant thing is whether the Cavs will declare that they're satisfied with the physical's results. No-one can force them to be satisfied, and they're free to walk away from this deal. The only thing they bear here is the damage their reputation may suffer for the purpose of future trades.

It is relevant. Everyone new IT was going to fail the physical. It's a matter of how much time will IT be out and it's Boston Doctors vs Cleveland doctors.

Everyone knew that Cleveland wanted Tatum, but DA gave them the Nets pick in compassion for taking a broken IT. It's clear that they are trying to get ready for a Lebron departure, because even if taking Tatum, neither he or Zizic are going to make a huge difference in the finals. At least not from what we've seen.

From out side looking in and knowing how business can be done, the Cavs went in knowing IT would fail, knowing they already have the Nets pick and can say they don't like IT's report, so now they can ask for more. A healthy IT/Crowder/Zizic is already better than what just about everyone else can offer. Broken IT/ Nets fixes that.

A third party would be nice so that say Boston was closer to being right, they would know this in negotiations, and could hold their ground, and if the Cavs wanted out, they have every right too, but they look bad.

Same with if the Cavs are in the right, and Bos miss miss diagnosed IT, it gives the Cavs every right to ask for more. Bos doesn't have to and can sit on it, or feel like maybe a second rounder, or swapping Zizic for Rozier to give them more sucurity at the PG spot to make up for it. 

Right now the Cavs are saying they aren't happy with IT's physical, but no one is saying how much time, or if he even will need surgery on the hip. So to me there is a lot of BS going on, on the Cavs end, and things could go bad for the players because some one is being greedy. 

[danglertx]

This is why I think a 2nd rounder should be enough

"Complain and ye shall receive.
The Boston Celtics have been granted a 2013 second-round pick from the Oklahoma City Thunder in a dispute over Jeff Green's medical condition, according to Yahoo! Sports.
Green was traded by the Thunder at the deadline in a deal that sent him and Nenad Krstic to Boston and Nate Robinson and Kendrick Perkins to OKC. After Green re-signed with the Celtics last summer, he failed his physical because of a heart condition and was forced to miss the entire season following surgery.
According to the report, the Thunder are sending a second-round pick that they own via the Bobcats.
Later Tuesday, the NBA issued the following statement explaining its decision and the awarding of the pick.
As part of a ruling in a trade disclosure dispute between the Boston Celtics and the Oklahoma City Thunder, NBA Commissioner David Stern today awarded the Celtics a 2013 second-round draft pick held by the Thunder. Stern found that there was no evidence of bad faith or any intent to withhold information on the part of Thunder management or its physicians, but that Oklahoma City's cardiologists were in possession of information about Jeff Green that was not shared with Thunder management and that should have been disclosed to the Celtics in connection with the trade of Green in February 2011.
Under NBA rules, teams are required to disclose to each other in connection with trades any information in their possession or control about a player's prior injuries, illnesses, or other health conditions that could affect the player's ability to play NBA basketball at any point in the future. Green had surgery on his heart in January 2012 and did not play during the 2011-12 season.
"


We need silver to intervene... See that we did not have bad faith in disclosure, and we give a 2nd rounder as compensation. I see no difference in the situations. A deal was agreed upon, and the other team disagreed later on medical diagnosis that affected the following season. IT will most likely play next year so I think the 2nd rounder is more than fair

Apples, meet oranges.  The Celtics didn't deceive the Cavs.  It hasn't even been alleged they have.  If the Cavs fail Thomas on his physical maybe the Celtics can complain to the league that the Cavs were aware of IT's condition, had all the medical reports and evaluations, and still chose to make the trade.  I think it is pretty hard to say, "hey this guy is hurt exactly like you said he was, we don't want to do the trade anymore."

The disagreement seems to be about the timetable for return.  Boston doesn't owe the Cavs a timetable for IT's return.  They have to give them any and all medical information they have on him, which it hasn't been alleged they didn't. 

You hold trades up when your doctors tell you about a situation you weren't aware of.  This is pretty shady on the Cav's part and should probably be looked into by the league.

[Big333223]

This whole thing is weird because it seems like both teams were proceeding like the physicals would be waived, hence the early announcement of the deal by team officials.

It's true. There are pieces on Crowder and Zizic on the Cavs web site and the NBA store is already advertising Thomas Cavaliers jerseys.

I just posted in another thread that I think this came up because ownership didn't realize that the initial deal already included additional compensation for IT being hurt so now they're demanding more.

[mctyson]

The remedy should be to void the trade or not, not to give additional compensation. The Celtics didn't do anything wrong.

This.  It is within Cleveland's right to rescind the trade after the failed physical.  That's what the exam is for. 

They should either rescind the trade or take what is offered.

[Bobshot]

I agree. Silver needs to step in and arbitrate. He needs to see the prognoses of doctors on both sides, and make a judgement.

[GreenEnvy]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Cleveland is dealing in bad faith.

They are now asking for more compensation for a guy who is currently injured? He is currently rehabbing, so he can't pass a physical. Were they expecting him to?

If Wednesday comes and Cleveland tries to cancel this trade, I'd go to Silver and ask for mediation. Unless Danny did something to purposely deceive Cleveland, they should be bound by the agreement they made to the league office.

This isn't a case of "we knew he was injured, we just didn't know how injured," because then you would just look to void the trade, not see what else you can get out of the other team. Cleveland knows the C's blindsided IT and burned their bridge with Crowder as well.

Something doesn't seem right here, and I don't think it has everything to do with IT's hip.

[CelticsElite]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Cleveland is dealing in bad faith.

They are now asking for more compensation for a guy who is currently injured? He is currently rehabbing, so he can't pass a physical. Were they expecting him to?

If Wednesday comes and Cleveland tries to cancel this trade, I'd go to Silver and ask for mediation. Unless Danny did something to purposely deceive Cleveland, they should be bound by the agreement they made to the league office.

This isn't a case of "we knew he was injured, we just didn't know how injured," because then you would just look to void the trade, not see what else you can get out of the other team. Cleveland knows the C's blindsided IT and burned their bridge with Crowder as well.

Something doesn't seem right here, and I don't think it has everything to do with IT's hip.

yup agreed

Haynes: Not surprised if this was Cavaliers plan all along
Chris Haynes joins Early Edition to discuss the Irving-IT trade, and says he wouldn't be surprised if this was Cleveland's plan the whole time.
http://www.csnne.com/video/chris-haynes-wouldnt-be-surprised-if-was-cavaliers-plan-all-along

[CelticsElite]

The more I think about it, the more I believe Cleveland is dealing in bad faith.

They are now asking for more compensation for a guy who is currently injured? He is currently rehabbing, so he can't pass a physical. Were they expecting him to?

If Wednesday comes and Cleveland tries to cancel this trade, I'd go to Silver and ask for mediation. Unless Danny did something to purposely deceive Cleveland, they should be bound by the agreement they made to the league office.

This isn't a case of "we knew he was injured, we just didn't know how injured," because then you would just look to void the trade, not see what else you can get out of the other team. Cleveland knows the C's blindsided IT and burned their bridge with Crowder as well.

Something doesn't seem right here, and I don't think it has everything to do with IT's hip.

Tp

This articulated the perspective that I and many others  here have of the current situation