Adam Silver needs to intervene w/ trade. (Stern intervened w/ Jeff Green trade)

[kozlodoev]

What are the bylaws against one team suing another?

If I was the Celts, I'd be readying a lawsuit / arbitration complaint. Breach of the "covenant of good faith and fair dealing". Proof is tough, but it would be fun to have Celtics lawyers depose Dan Gilbert, etc., about their shady negotiating tactics.

LOL, good luck with that.

[Tr1boy]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery.

Link?

Bc yes , if he cant jog without pain by now... Maybe he does require surgery

And Danny/medical staff didnt have a full grasp of situation/IT4 has been hiding/hoping his condition improves on its own

No doubt he took the whole "everyone is injured in the playoffs"  mentality too far

[kozlodoev]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery.

Link?

Bc yes , if he cant jog without pain by now... Maybe he does require surgery

And Danny/medical staff didnt have a full grasp of situation/IT4 has been hiding/hoping his condition improves on its own

No doubt he took the whole "everyone is injured in the playoffs"  mentality too far

"Pass a physical" is an inherently subjective criterion though. It simply means the team trading for him should be able to examine him and declare that they're satisfied with his condition. "Being able to run" is not a requirement for "passing" a physical.

[dreamgreen]

The league should step in this looks like a lame ploy to me by Cleveland. They knew what they were getting shame on them!

[Roy H.]

What are the bylaws against one team suing another?

If I was the Celts, I'd be readying a lawsuit / arbitration complaint. Breach of the "covenant of good faith and fair dealing". Proof is tough, but it would be fun to have Celtics lawyers depose Dan Gilbert, etc., about their shady negotiating tactics.

LOL, good luck with that.

Oh, it won't happen, but I'd love to see the Cavs' internal emails and texts about this.

[tazzmaniac]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery.

Link?

Bc yes , if he cant jog without pain by now... Maybe he does require surgery

And Danny/medical staff didnt have a full grasp of situation/IT4 has been hiding/hoping his condition improves on its own

No doubt he took the whole "everyone is injured in the playoffs"  mentality too far

Somebody else posted about it in a different thread.  This article references it coming from Woj. 

https://factoryofsadness.co/2017/08/26/isaiah-thomas-not-even-running-rehab-process/

[Ogaju]

Without knowing the specific terms of the contract you cannot tell if passing the physical is a condition precedent or a condition subsequent to the formation of the contract.

[tazzmaniac]

Without knowing the specific terms of the contract you cannot tell if passing the physical is a condition precedent or a condition subsequent to the formation of the contract.

Read what I posted from the cba faq.  Physicals are a condition that has to be met before the contract becomes official.  When trades occur during the season, all players involved must "pass" their physical before any of the players can play with their new teams.   With "pass" just meaning the receiving team is satisfied with the player's physical condition.  Teams may waive the physical exam if for example their intent is just to put the player on waivers.  So there is no confusion about it.  Physicals come before the NBA makes the trade official. 


http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93280.msg2380493#msg2380493 

[Ogaju]

Without knowing the specific terms of the contract you cannot tell if passing the physical is a condition precedent or a condition subsequent to the formation of the contract.

Read what I posted from the cba faq.  Physicals are a condition that has to be met before the contract becomes official.  When trades occur during the season, all players involved must "pass" their physical before any of the players can play with their new teams.   With "pass" just meaning the receiving team is satisfied with the player's physical condition.  Teams may waive the physical exam if for example their intent is just to put the player on waivers.  So there is no confusion about it.  Physicals come before the NBA makes the trade official. 


http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=93280.msg2380493#msg2380493

ThIs explanation raises more questions. Is the league office approval of the contract a condition that has to happen before the contract is formed or does disapproval extinguish an already formed contract.

[slamtheking]

As far as I know our doctors weren't in possession of any evidence that wasn't handed over. We didn't do anything wrong. The Thunder did.

what im saying is - at worst, a 2nd rounder should fix this. Not including Tatum like they keep asking for

I agree that the deal as is needs to be accepted as nothing has changed. And we didn't do anything wrong

the key is what whether all the info we had was shared with Cleveland.  if so, the deal goes through as is.

Isn't that up to Cleveland? At this point, they decide if the trade is voided, I think.

is it though?  if the C's fully disclosed IT's condition, what's the grounds for voiding the trade?  i'm not against voiding it because I'd love to have that pick back but if the C's provided all the info they have and it's completely valid info, I'm not seeing Cleveland's grounds for voiding or changing the deal. 

to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the issue Cleveland has supposedly identified has been disclosed.  for all we know, both organizations may see the same damage to the hip but Cleveland's doctors think surgery is the better treatment over rest.  that's not really grounds for voiding or altering the trade.

[Fafnir]

As far as I know our doctors weren't in possession of any evidence that wasn't handed over. We didn't do anything wrong. The Thunder did.

what im saying is - at worst, a 2nd rounder should fix this. Not including Tatum like they keep asking for

I agree that the deal as is needs to be accepted as nothing has changed. And we didn't do anything wrong

the key is what whether all the info we had was shared with Cleveland.  if so, the deal goes through as is.

Isn't that up to Cleveland? At this point, they decide if the trade is voided, I think.

is it though?  if the C's fully disclosed IT's condition, what's the grounds for voiding the trade?  i'm not against voiding it because I'd love to have that pick back but if the C's provided all the info they have and it's completely valid info, I'm not seeing Cleveland's grounds for voiding or changing the deal. 

to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the issue Cleveland has supposedly identified has been disclosed.  for all we know, both organizations may see the same damage to the hip but Cleveland's doctors think surgery is the better treatment over rest.  that's not really grounds for voiding or altering the trade.

If Isaiah Thomas cannot pass a physical as being ready to play in the NBA, then they can void the trade. It doesn't matter if the C's were up front and honest with all the medical information that is their right under the CBA and league rules unless they waive it.

[bdm860]

Trades and contracts being rescinded due to failed physicals is nothing new.  No need for Silver to step in.

Donatas Motiejunas in 2016, 3-team trade vetoed
Luc Mbah a Moute in 2015, free agent contract voided
Chuck Hayes in 2011, free agent contract voided
Luther Head in 2010, free agent contract voided
Von Wafer in 2009, free agent contract voided
Tyson Chandler in 2009, trade for Chris Wilcox and Joe Smith vetoed
Cutino Mobley in 2008, trade went through because he was traded for salary cap reasons
Steven Hunter in 2006, trade for two 2nd rounders vetoed
Robert Traylor in 2005, free agent contract vetoed
Antoine Walker in 2005, renogtiated contract from 6 years guaranteed to 4
Shareef Abdur-Rahim in 2005, sign-and-trade to Nets vetoed
Mateen Cleaves in 2002, trade for Jumaine Jones vetoed
Alvin Williams in 2000, trade for Danny Fortson vetoed
Dino Radja in 1997, trade for Clarence Weatherspoon and Michael Cage vetoed
Victor Alexander in 1995, trade for Harold Minor vetoed
Duane Causwell in 1994, trade for Olden Polynice and David Wood vetoed.
Sean Elliot in 1994, trade for Robert Horry vetoed.

http://www.shamsports.com/2010/07/a-history-of-failed-physicals.html
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/7370034/sacramento-kings-void-chuck-hayes-contract-failed-physical
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/2/18/11049508/rockets-trade-donatas-motiejunas-marcus-thornton-to-pistons
https://www.si.com/nba/2015/08/01/kings-luc-mbah-moute-contract-voided-nbpa-grievance

[slamtheking]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery.

Link?

Bc yes , if he cant jog without pain by now... Maybe he does require surgery

And Danny/medical staff didnt have a full grasp of situation/IT4 has been hiding/hoping his condition improves on its own

No doubt he took the whole "everyone is injured in the playoffs"  mentality too far

this is a possibility -- IT hiding the severity in terms of pain he's feeling in the hopes that he can indeed get someone to back up that Brinks truck he so fervently desires.  if that is the case, shame on the Celtics' medical staff for not being more thorough in their follow up examinations and treatment of his injury.  (perhaps the reason behind the staff shakeup in the past couple of months?)

[Sketch5]

As far as I know our doctors weren't in possession of any evidence that wasn't handed over. We didn't do anything wrong. The Thunder did.

what im saying is - at worst, a 2nd rounder should fix this. Not including Tatum like they keep asking for

I agree that the deal as is needs to be accepted as nothing has changed. And we didn't do anything wrong

the key is what whether all the info we had was shared with Cleveland.  if so, the deal goes through as is.

Isn't that up to Cleveland? At this point, they decide if the trade is voided, I think.

is it though?  if the C's fully disclosed IT's condition, what's the grounds for voiding the trade?  i'm not against voiding it because I'd love to have that pick back but if the C's provided all the info they have and it's completely valid info, I'm not seeing Cleveland's grounds for voiding or changing the deal. 

to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the issue Cleveland has supposedly identified has been disclosed.  for all we know, both organizations may see the same damage to the hip but Cleveland's doctors think surgery is the better treatment over rest.  that's not really grounds for voiding or altering the trade.

If Isaiah Thomas cannot pass a physical as being ready to play in the NBA, then they can void the trade. It doesn't matter if the C's were up front and honest with all the medical information that is their right under the CBA and league rules unless they waive it.

Yes thats the rule, the problem is that the IT wasn't going to pass the test no matter what, and the Cavs new this going in. DA put the Nets pick with out conditions on the table because they knew Thomas wasn't going to be ready at the start of the season. But now the Cavs are claiming something different than what the C's have claimed. I doubt DA wasn't 100% up front with is. He's been part of these things on both ends to know not to hide things.

 But the Cavs have a different opinion on how the hip should be treated, and who's to say their right? They could be saying surgery, but in reality just needs a couple more months of rehab. This is wear you almost need a third party to evaluate IT to see who's in the right.

From some info this mourning it sounds like a deal will go through including Thomas, but what will be part of it, who knows. If they swap Zizic for Rozier, I could live with that, Larkin can play back up, back up PG when Smart is backing up the SG spot. Could also open a spot of Tony Allen. And at this point I'm fine with giving up a 2nd round pick or our 1st round pick(it's going to be high 20's anyways) just to get this done. These players need to find there homes and get their kids in school and settled. Not fair to them over a draft pick that most likely turn out to be anything. 

[Sketch5]

How is any player who recently came off an injury or surgery suppose to pass a physical??

The story has been he wouldn't need surgery but might miss the beginning of the season.  If the Cavs agreed with that assessment, they would have already passed him and completed the trade. 

It has been 3 months from the injury.  He should be well along his recovery but apparently he isn't running yet.  They clearly are concerned that the injury is significantly worse and does require surgery.

Link?

Bc yes , if he cant jog without pain by now... Maybe he does require surgery

And Danny/medical staff didnt have a full grasp of situation/IT4 has been hiding/hoping his condition improves on its own

No doubt he took the whole "everyone is injured in the playoffs"  mentality too far

this is a possibility -- IT hiding the severity in terms of pain he's feeling in the hopes that he can indeed get someone to back up that Brinks truck he so fervently desires.  if that is the case, shame on the Celtics' medical staff for not being more thorough in their follow up examinations and treatment of his injury.  (perhaps the reason behind the staff shakeup in the past couple of months?)

It's hard to completely blame the med staff, you can have range of motion, but hurt like hell, but if you can hold the pain back, no one knows. So it's hard to make assessments when the patient isn't being 100% truthful.

But I can also see where the new shake up could be part of it. KG's knee could have been handled differently. Get a staff who are more up to date, and receptive to new treatments could help. Right now they are talking about only icing pitchers arms for 20 mins, and then heat from there on out after a game, but a lot of old time med staffs are against it. But the science is there to prove heat over Ice when there is no swelling is the right course, and less injuries should happen.