MJ ranks Kobe over Lebron: "5 beats 3"

[Eja117]

In 2004 coach Larry Brown with Poppovich and Roy Williams as assistants also managed to lose to Puerto Rico by 19 and Lithuania (with a population the size of Chicago).

Some of those countries have split up. If Yugoslavia had stayed one country or if the Soviet Union had stayed one country the Olympics could be fairly interesting. 

It should also be noted the Soviet Union with a population about 1/3rd of ours beat the US team in 1988 and arguably 1972.

After 2004 it became clear the US couldn't just show up and win gold any more. Maybe not even silver. After that Coach K took over USA basketball and the process became far more controlled and careful in its formation and prep.

That involved things like recent college draft picks like Marcus Smart being called in to prep the players.

You do realize the Dream Team lost a little watched exhibition game to a bunch of college all stars with Eric Montross right?

[Ogaju]

In 2004 coach Larry Brown with Poppovich and Roy Williams as assistants also managed to lose to Puerto Rico by 19 and Lithuania (with a population the size of Chicago).

Some of those countries have split up. If Yugoslavia had stayed one country or if the Soviet Union had stayed one country the Olympics could be fairly interesting. 

It should also be noted the Soviet Union with a population about 1/3rd of ours beat the US team in 1988 and arguably 1972.

Curry > LeBron

[Roy H.]

It should also be noted the Soviet Union with a population about 1/3rd of ours beat the US team in 1988 and arguably 1972.

?

The Soviet Union had a larger population than the US, by about 40 million people according to 1989 statistics.

[alley oop]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Bill Walton healthy > Lebron
He didn't need more than one all-star teammate to win the title in Portland in '77. But he made his teammates better.

[Eja117]

It should also be noted the Soviet Union with a population about 1/3rd of ours beat the US team in 1988 and arguably 1972.

?

The Soviet Union had a larger population than the US, by about 40 million people according to 1989 statistics.

I think you are right and I am wrong. I think I conflated US population today with Russian population (which is actually much closer to half, I think, than a third).

Also, if I remember correctly 1992 got a tad whacky with several former Soviet republics competing as a "unified team" using the Olympic emblem itself as its flag.

I remember hearing the Soviet figure skating team was so poor they couldn't afford a zamboni. Not sure if that's true or not. Granted I think stuff like that is balanced out by their unashamed and clear use of PEDs (and the Russians are still probably the biggest offenders.)

Nevertheless I still loved the show they put on at the Sochi Olympics.

[Phantom255x]

I'd take Lebron over Kobe.

And if we're using this logic, then okay, I guess Bill Russell is the true GOAT and not Jordan.

[mgent]

I think he stated it perfectly.

LeBron MAY be better than Kobe (obviously) but Kobe's had a more successful career.

[Ilikesports17]

Kobe is not better than LeBron, point blank. There is no discussion to be had there, only a fool would think otherwise.

MJ is just being a hater.

MJ knows that nobody thinks Kobe>MJ, but some people do believe Lebron>MJ.

[Ilikesports17]

I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.

The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom,  Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...

but Shaq was absolutely dominant. Kobe wasnt even the best player on his team for the threepeat. Lebron was easily the best player for all 8 finals trips.

[celticsclay]

I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.

The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom,  Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...

but Shaq was absolutely dominant. Kobe wasnt even the best player on his team for the threepeat. Lebron was easily the best player for all 8 finals trips.

That's not really my point. My point was all of kobes titles came along one other perennial all star. Lebron teamed up with two superstars so it is really hard to judge him. I think pierce would have won a few more titles playing alongside bosh and Wade. People really forget how good bosh was I think. He is way better than the Lamar odom and end career glen rice.

[Ilikesports17]

I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.

The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom,  Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...

but Shaq was absolutely dominant. Kobe wasnt even the best player on his team for the threepeat. Lebron was easily the best player for all 8 finals trips.

That's not really my point. My point was all of kobes titles came along one other perennial all star. Lebron teamed up with two superstars so it is really hard to judge him. I think pierce would have won a few more titles playing alongside bosh and Wade. People really forget how good bosh was I think. He is way better than the Lamar odom and end career glen rice.

Why is it any more valid to evaluate a team's third best player as opposed to the second best player?

Your logic seems an attempt to make Wade-Shaq a wash. It isnt Shaq is way better.

[SHAQATTACK]

MJ is THE real KING


he should know.

[celticsclay]

I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.

The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom,  Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...

but Shaq was absolutely dominant. Kobe wasnt even the best player on his team for the threepeat. Lebron was easily the best player for all 8 finals trips.

That's not really my point. My point was all of kobes titles came along one other perennial all star. Lebron teamed up with two superstars so it is really hard to judge him. I think pierce would have won a few more titles playing alongside bosh and Wade. People really forget how good bosh was I think. He is way better than the Lamar odom and end career glen rice.

Why is it any more valid to evaluate a team's third best player as opposed to the second best player?

Your logic seems an attempt to make Wade-Shaq a wash. It isnt Shaq is way better.

I feel like winning a title with only one other superstar is more impressive than winning with 2 other ones. I agree Shaq was better than wade, but it was a chasm. Wade was a perennial MVP candidate that was first team all NBA the two seasons before Lebron got there. So you are comparing maybe the second best player against the 5th best NBA player there. That is not a huge difference to me. Then you look at the third best player bosh was maybe the 12-16th best player in the league then (some could have him higher) Lamar Odom was what the 35-40th?  That's where the real difference is. If you trying to argue the Kobe Shaq teams had more talent than Lebron bosh and wade in their prime I kind of have to laugh that off and agree to disagree

[ManUp]

Kobe is highly overrated.

His Jordanesque style of play elevated his legend beyond his actual in game impact and effectiveness.

The guy shot 40% from the field and 30% from three and won mvp of that finals. Pau Gasol and Bynum were the reason those "Kobe Lakers" were so effective. Together they basically created another Shaq effect. Kobe isn't that much better than the McGradys, Pierces, and Carters of his era. He is not on the level of Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, and the Lebrons of history.

[Eja117]

McGrady never got out of the first round right. He doesn't get to be anywhere near this conversation.