I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.
The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom, Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...
but Shaq was absolutely dominant. Kobe wasnt even the best player on his team for the threepeat. Lebron was easily the best player for all 8 finals trips.
That's not really my point. My point was all of kobes titles came along one other perennial all star. Lebron teamed up with two superstars so it is really hard to judge him. I think pierce would have won a few more titles playing alongside bosh and Wade. People really forget how good bosh was I think. He is way better than the Lamar odom and end career glen rice.
Why is it any more valid to evaluate a team's third best player as opposed to the second best player?
Your logic seems an attempt to make Wade-Shaq a wash. It isnt Shaq is way better.
I feel like winning a title with only one other superstar is more impressive than winning with 2 other ones. I agree Shaq was better than wade, but it was a chasm. Wade was a perennial MVP candidate that was first team all NBA the two seasons before Lebron got there. So you are comparing maybe the second best player against the 5th best NBA player there. That is not a huge difference to me. Then you look at the third best player bosh was maybe the 12-16th best player in the league then (some could have him higher) Lamar Odom was what the 35-40th? That's where the real difference is. If you trying to argue the Kobe Shaq teams had more talent than Lebron bosh and wade in their prime I kind of have to laugh that off and agree to disagree
Shaq was the best player in the league and was by a very wide margin during that Lakers 3 Peat. He was perhaps the most dominant player in league history during that span. He was unguardable offensively, was a monster on the glass, and one of the best defenders in the league. I think you are greatly underselling just how good Shaq was. The Lakers could have had almost anyone playing next to Shaq and they could have won the title. He was just that good. And while Wade was 1st Team All NBA the two seasons before James arrived, he was hardly a perennial MVP candidate as he only finished in the top 5 twice (3rd and 5th). He also was eliminated in the 1st round of the playoffs both those seasons and the year before that the Heat weren't even a playoff team (which allowed them to tank to the #2 pick in the draft). This notion that Wade was on prime Shaq's level is just silly. I could have been the starting PG for the Lakers and they might have still won the title those years. Shaq was just that good.
You are also underselling Glen Rice a bit. The three seasons before he arrived in LA he averaged 21.6, 26.8, and 22.3 ppg with between 4-5 rpg and 2-3 apg and finished 5th in MVP voting the 26.8 year (and was 11th the year after that). He obviously wasn't as good for as long as Bosh was, but he had a higher peak (Bosh finished 7th and 12th in MVP voting his only two seasons on the list, and Bosh has just 1 2nd Team All NBA, while Rice has a 2nd and a 3rd team). That said, Rice was only on the 1st of the 3 title teams before he ended up in NY. The other two teams Rick Fox or Derek Fisher was likely the 3rd best player and there is no comparison between them and Chris Bosh.
At the end of the day Kobe, won 5 titles but he was at best his teams best player only 2 of the seasons (I think you could make a good argument that Pau was the "better" player on the 10 team that beat Boston in the Finals, though won't quibble if you thought it was Kobe as they were pretty close). Kobe is a great player, but he isn't in the discussion with Jordan and James (I think you could reasonably put Shaq and Duncan in with those two, but big men and wings are very hard to compare). Kobe just wasn't that type of player.
Topic: MJ ranks Kobe over Lebron: "5 beats 3" (Read 9180 times)