MJ ranks Kobe over Lebron: "5 beats 3"

[Roy H.]

Russell > Jordan > Lebron > Kobe

I'm fine with rings being a decider, but it should be "rings won as the best player on your team". Kobe has 2.

Then shouldn't finals record also be a factor?

Not really. Finishing second is often more impressive than missing the Finals all together.

[Eja117]

In terms of who can put the most rings and medals on their body at any point in time....just the single most blinged out people of all time (Jerry West tried flashing his executive rings, but they didn't let him in.....he was asked if he wanted to take the photo and he said "Sure. On the condition you have to wear NBA gear with the NBA logo on them."...the compromise was agreed to) You needed at least 6 just to walk to the door

Bill Russell - 16  (two coaching)
Tommy Heinson - 10  (two are coaching)
MJ - 9
Kareem - 9
John Havlicek - 9
Magic - 7
Kobe - 7
George Mikan - 7 (ahem....were there black players in his day?)
Bob Cousy - 7

A special allowance was made for Arvdyas Sabonis and nobody could look him in the eye except Bill Russell. MJ and Kobe tried and then looked away.

Scottie Pippen tried to get in with 8. MJ started saying "Scottie I love you and this is awkward but..." to which he yelled "If they can get in I can get in!" pointing straight at Cousy and Heinsohn. "I was on the fudging Dream Team!"

They told him he could stay 30 minutes and had to stand in the back of the team photo.

Manu Ginolbli was turned away at the door but told he could come back later, after they all left, to see if any food was left over.

Magic was overheard saying "I feel like Shaq should be here" to which Kobe, Russell, and MJ immediately responded "Not me".

At the end of the whole thing they all agreed they should have let in Duncan on the theory "His bling is pretty shiny"

[Surferdad]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Surely you don't seriously have Curry, Havlicek and Thomas above LeBron. All the others can have  cases made for them, but with those three it's pretty hard. I guess Havlicek was one of the best players on the best team ever, but still hard to make the case.

Yup, Shaq, Curry, Havlicek and Thomas are way overrated by eja, IMO.  Many people forget how dominant Wilt and Kareem were as big men because it was a different game in the old days.  I just can't put Shaq over Wilt, no way!  Also I can't separate Magic over Bird by 4 places on the list, there's just not that much separation, IMO.

Without adding any other possible names (e.g, Olajuwon, Moses, West), here is my re-order of eja's list:
Russell > Jordan > Wilt > Kareem > Magic > Bird > Kobe > Duncan > Lebron > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Shaq > Steph Curry

[Celtics4ever]

MJ must think that LeBron is the modern day equivalent of Jerry West.   Lots of finals but not many titles.  I concur.  Still a great player, though, and good enough to be the logo for years.

[Eja117]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Surely you don't seriously have Curry, Havlicek and Thomas above LeBron. All the others can have  cases made for them, but with those three it's pretty hard. I guess Havlicek was one of the best players on the best team ever, but still hard to make the case.

Yup, Shaq, Curry, Havlicek and Thomas are way overrated by eja, IMO.  Many people forget how dominant Wilt and Kareem were as big men because it was a different game in the old days.  I just can't put Shaq over Wilt, no way!  Also I can't separate Magic over Bird by 4 places on the list, there's just not that much separation, IMO.

Without adding any other possible names (e.g, Olajuwon, Moses, West), here is my re-order of eja's list:
Russell > Jordan > Wilt > Kareem > Magic > Bird > Kobe > Duncan > Lebron > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Shaq > Steph Curry

I'm not saying if you grab a time machine and bring Harry Potter with you that this is the order of "greatness" per se. If you trade Magic for Larry straight up I agree the results could be reversed in a manner of speaking with Larry getting more rings because they are equal in "greatness."

I am expressing I feel you have to rank greatness on the resume (and context of their resumes) more than the spidey senses on our necks and the ooohhhsss and aahhhs.

Wilt is simply not the champion that these others are. Greater player? Maybe. Sorta.

I also want to point out my list is as of today. I won't be surprised at all if Curry and Bron win more. The thing is Bron might win more the way he has done so far which is to take the easiest path he can find.

There is no comparing at all the path Isaiah Thomas took vs the path Bron has taken. Not even a little.

Lebron is a champion, but he's sorta an artificial one. 

[celticsclay]

I would have had such an easier time judging Lebron against other players if he would have had wade sign with him in Cleveland, Lebron had signed in Toronto with bosh or Lebron had gone to Miami to join Wade without Bosh. I think those teams still could have made the finals and won championships and they would have been that much more impressive.

The teaming up those 3 really decimated the east because at the time those 3 were 3 of the top 6 players in the east and their depArtures instantly made Toronto and Cleveland after thoughts. Also when you think about kobes title teams they always had two perennial all stars. The first was Kobe and Shaq obviously and the second was Kobe and Gasoline. They had some other nice players like Odom,  Bynum or Rice but it was never a perennial all star hall of gamer like Bosh. To me that makes Kobes titles a bit more impressive and it makes it a lot harder to judge Lebron. By the same token if Lebron wins a title this year with Bledsoe and Love he skyrockets up the rankings...

[gouki88]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Surely you don't seriously have Curry, Havlicek and Thomas above LeBron. All the others can have  cases made for them, but with those three it's pretty hard. I guess Havlicek was one of the best players on the best team ever, but still hard to make the case.

Yup, Shaq, Curry, Havlicek and Thomas are way overrated by eja, IMO.  Many people forget how dominant Wilt and Kareem were as big men because it was a different game in the old days.  I just can't put Shaq over Wilt, no way!  Also I can't separate Magic over Bird by 4 places on the list, there's just not that much separation, IMO.

Without adding any other possible names (e.g, Olajuwon, Moses, West), here is my re-order of eja's list:
Russell > Jordan > Wilt > Kareem > Magic > Bird > Kobe > Duncan > Lebron > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Shaq > Steph Curry

I'm not saying if you grab a time machine and bring Harry Potter with you that this is the order of "greatness" per se. If you trade Magic for Larry straight up I agree the results could be reversed in a manner of speaking with Larry getting more rings because they are equal in "greatness."

I am expressing I feel you have to rank greatness on the resume (and context of their resumes) more than the spidey senses on our necks and the ooohhhsss and aahhhs.

Wilt is simply not the champion that these others are. Greater player? Maybe. Sorta.

I also want to point out my list is as of today. I won't be surprised at all if Curry and Bron win more. The thing is Bron might win more the way he has done so far which is to take the easiest path he can find.

There is no comparing at all the path Isaiah Thomas took vs the path Bron has taken. Not even a little.

Lebron is a champion, but he's sorta an artificial one.

I just don't get how you can criticise LeBron for having an easy path, or whatever you want to say, then have Curry ranked above him, who was only the best guy on his first championship team, but not the latest one.

Isiah Thomas also kinda got lucky, as his first championship was the year in which Bird only played 6 games, and was never the same after that. Not to say he crafted his perfect team like LeBron, but he still was the beneficiary of circumstance.

It just doesn't seem to me that the way you're ranking these guys is consistent whatsoever.

[Eja117]

I think Steph Curry and IT's success is far more organic than Lebron's. He's kinda just a ring chaser. They were more ring earners

[KGs Knee]

Kobe is not better than LeBron, point blank. There is no discussion to be had there, only a fool would think otherwise.

MJ is just being a hater.

[KGs Knee]

Russell > Jordan > Lebron > Kobe

I'm fine with rings being a decider, but it should be "rings won as the best player on your team". Kobe has 2.

Then shouldn't finals record also be a factor?

Not really. Finishing second is often more impressive than missing the Finals all together.

Yeah, LeBron he been to what, 7 straight Finals? Who else can say that, Russell? Anyone else of significance? Not to my knowledge.

Also, other than those Miami teams, none of LeBron's teams have ever really had anyone who will ever even be considered for the HOF. Shaq and Pippen are light years better than any of LeBron's teammates in either of his tenures in Cleveland.

[Eja117]

Russell > Jordan > Lebron > Kobe

I'm fine with rings being a decider, but it should be "rings won as the best player on your team". Kobe has 2.

Then shouldn't finals record also be a factor?

Not really. Finishing second is often more impressive than missing the Finals all together.

Yeah, LeBron he been to what, 7 straight Finals? Who else can say that, Russell? Anyone else of significance? Not to my knowledge.

Also, other than those Miami teams, none of LeBron's teams have ever really had anyone who will ever even be considered for the HOF. Shaq and Pippen are light years better than any of LeBron's teammates in either of his tenures in Cleveland.

Poor Lebron with his multiple all star/all nba teammates.  He's really lifting those teams up and pulling off miracles.

[Ogaju]

Merely summing it up in amounts of championships won is a pretty foolish way of going about it. If LeBron had prime Shaq to play with I bet he'd have 5 right now.

Does MJ think Derek Fisher is better than Steve Nash? Or John Stockton?

Either way Bill has them all covered

Let's not act like LeBron hasn't played with other superstars in their primes.

LeBron has been to the Finals 8 times, Kobe 7. LeBron is the more talented all around player absolutely. But if I had to choose one of them in the final 2 minutes of a game 7 with a championship on the line, I'd lean Kobe.

basket ball is not played in two minutes with a championship on the line. LeBron>Kobe any attempt to argue that is just plain asinine.

[Ogaju]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

For me a huge diff between Kobe and Bron is that Bron assembled his own buddy team whereas Kobe kicked Shaq off his.

Personally I give Magic, Kareem, and Bird a ton of credit that not only did they win multiple rings, but they won them against each other. Had Lebron beaten Durant this year I'd place him above Kobe.

Kobe won as #2 behind Shaq, but I mean...Bron had some pretty decent teammates of his own and got beat by Dirk. Bron should have won more in Miami. I don't feel like Kobe lost a lot of championships he should have won.

I think Russell's two rings as a coach also separates him on this list.

One thing I love about the top of the list is these guys even won NCAA rings and Olympic medals

Just as a visual here.....NBA = NBA ring,  CR = Coaches ring, NCAA = NCAA ring, O = Olympic gold

Before we get started let it be noted...Arvydas Sabonis...One Olympic gold and about 200 million Euro championships and rings. It's off the charts.

Russell 11 NBA, 2 NCAA, 2 CR, O
Jordan 6 NBA, NCAA, 2O
Magic 5 NBA, NCAA, O
Kareem, 6 NBA, 3 NCAA
Duncan, 5 NBA
Shaq, 4 NBA, O
Bird, 3 NBA, O
Kobe 5 NBA, 2O
Wilt, 2 NBA
Isaiah, 2 NBA, NCAA
John Havlicek 8 NBA, NCAA
Steph Curry, 2 NBA
Bron, 3 NBA, 2O
D Wade, 3 NBA, O
Oscar Robertson NBA, O
KG NBA, O
George Mikan 5 NBA/BAA, 2 NBL
Manu Ginobli 4 NBA, 1 Euro, O
Bob Cousy 6 NBA, NCAA
Senator Bill Bradley 2NBA, O
Bill Walton 2 NBA, 2 NCAA
Jerry West NBA, O, 8 rings as executive
Hakeem 2 NBA, O
Dr J NBA, 2 ABA
Dirk NBA
Tony Parker 4 NBA, 1 FIBA
Scottie Pippen 6 NBA, 2O
Tommy Heinsohn 8 NBA, 2 CR
James Worthy 3 NBA, NCAA
Robert Parish 4 NBA
Dennis Johnson 3 NBA
Kevin McHale 3 NBA
Kevin Durant NBA, 2O
Jerry Lucas NBA, NCAA, O
Pau Gasol 2NBA, 3 Euro Basket Golds
Klay Thompson 2NBA, O
Draymond Green 2NBA, O
Kyrie Irving NBA, O
Danny Ainge 2 NBA, and 1 more as executive, also played pro baseball

Interesting side notes....Patrick Ewing 2O, NCAA
Grant Hill 2 NCAA, O
Christian Laettner 2 NCAA, O
Anthony Davis NCAA, O
Shane Battier 2NBA, NCAA
Alex Groza 2 NCAA, O
Ralph Beard 2 NCAA, O

So Russell is the only person to have rings in 4 major categories and Jordan and Magic are the only in 3.  Magic will now try to get one as an executive and MJ might bumble into one as an owner but I doubt it

It should also be noted that all the Olympic medals prior to 1992 were college kids. After 92 it was almost entirely pros although the rest of the world sent their pros too. I'm not entirely sure what exactly is up with that. Also I should point out as an American I don't recognize the 1972 Olympic loss to the Soviets. Also note the US and Soviet teams boycotted each other at the 80 and 84 Olympics

You lost me so many times in this drivel of a post that I just stopped counting. Here are some of your highlights.

Curry over LeBron? Really?

You are counting Olympic medals?? LOL ..You really think the Olympics with the US playing the best players in the world against a bunch of teams from countries that do not even have organized basketball leagues make NBA players greater?

Your post says you hate Lebron James. You could have said that it one sentence.

[Eja117]

Wait. You think the Olympics has teams from countries without organized basketball leagues?

That's adorable.

The Argentinian 2004 gold medal team says hello.  That's Tim Duncan beside them with his shinny bronze medal.



Perhaps you'd rather point out more relevant stuff like AAU championships or McDonalds All American rings. I mean this country has organized basketball leagues.

[Ogaju]

I see your Argentina and I raise you Zaire, Nigeria, and all the other scrub countries that the US beats on its way to those glorious championships. Who was the coach of the US team in the 2004 Olympics?

He should be ashamed of himself. You really think Argentina beats the best the US could offer?

You picked Stephen Curry over LeBron James. Why am I even arguing with you?