MJ ranks Kobe over Lebron: "5 beats 3"

[CelticsElite]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2725253-michael-jordan-ranks-kobe-bryant-over-lebron-james-saying-five-beats-three

"Would I rank LeBron over Kobe in terms of best of all time? No. There's something about five that beats three. Now he may be better than that, but Kobe won five championships. LeBron won three."


Lebron reacts:.
https://youtu.be/ZfIJEyWYTdE

[SparzWizard]

Lol, sit down Michael Jordan. Bill Russell's 11 beats 6, 5, and 3.

[gouki88]

Merely summing it up in amounts of championships won is a pretty foolish way of going about it. If LeBron had prime Shaq to play with I bet he'd have 5 right now.

Does MJ think Derek Fisher is better than Steve Nash? Or John Stockton?

Either way Bill has them all covered

[RJ87]

Merely summing it up in amounts of championships won is a pretty foolish way of going about it. If LeBron had prime Shaq to play with I bet he'd have 5 right now.

Does MJ think Derek Fisher is better than Steve Nash? Or John Stockton?

Either way Bill has them all covered

Let's not act like LeBron hasn't played with other superstars in their primes.

LeBron has been to the Finals 8 times, Kobe 7. LeBron is the more talented all around player absolutely. But if I had to choose one of them in the final 2 minutes of a game 7 with a championship on the line, I'd lean Kobe.

[RockinRyA]

Merely summing it up in amounts of championships won is a pretty foolish way of going about it. If LeBron had prime Shaq to play with I bet he'd have 5 right now.

Does MJ think Derek Fisher is better than Steve Nash? Or John Stockton?

Either way Bill has them all covered

Let's not act like LeBron hasn't played with other superstars in their primes.

LeBron has been to the Finals 8 times, Kobe 7. LeBron is the more talented all around player absolutely. But if I had to choose one of them in the final 2 minutes of a game 7 with a championship on the line, I'd lean Kobe.

Yeah me too. I mean, sure Lebron could probably take a weaker team further, but you put either in the same stacked team, Id probably fear the one with Kobe more.

[Eja117]

So therefore he ranks Brady as the GOAT

Nice to see MJ subscribing to the eja theory of "Rings are the only thing that matter" and the Herm Edwards theory of playing to win the game.

And yes, I'd rather be Trent Dilfer than Dan Marino.

Hellloooo.....you play...to win....the game.   You play....to win...the game.

[gouki88]

Merely summing it up in amounts of championships won is a pretty foolish way of going about it. If LeBron had prime Shaq to play with I bet he'd have 5 right now.

Does MJ think Derek Fisher is better than Steve Nash? Or John Stockton?

Either way Bill has them all covered

Let's not act like LeBron hasn't played with other superstars in their primes.

LeBron has been to the Finals 8 times, Kobe 7. LeBron is the more talented all around player absolutely. But if I had to choose one of them in the final 2 minutes of a game 7 with a championship on the line, I'd lean Kobe.

Yeah me too. I mean, sure Lebron could probably take a weaker team further, but you put either in the same stacked team, Id probably fear the one with Kobe more.

I agree with that too, I'd much rather rely on someone like Kobe than someone like LeBron. I probably prefer Kobe in general (never thought I'd type those words).

But I don't think the comparison between LBJ and Kobe can be whittled down to just a championship count.

[greece66]

I read this as "I really don't like James"

[jambr380]

It's a tough argument to make. I think MJ obviously means best player on a championship team (no Robert Horry), but to not assume Shaq was the best player on those early Lakers teams seems like a big oversight. Lebron, as much as I dislike him, has clearly been the best player on all three of his championship teams.

So I have it, Kobe: 2 rings, Lebron: 3 rings. This also fits more in line with players like Bird who should be in the conversation.

[Surferdad]

MJ has it right, IMO.  This really begs another thread on top-10 all-time and I put Kobe slightly ahead of LeBron.  BTW, Shaq is not in my top-10.  LeBron has had plenty of help over the years.

[Roy H.]

Russell > Jordan > Lebron > Kobe

I'm fine with rings being a decider, but it should be "rings won as the best player on your team". Kobe has 2.

[Eja117]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

For me a huge diff between Kobe and Bron is that Bron assembled his own buddy team whereas Kobe kicked Shaq off his.

Personally I give Magic, Kareem, and Bird a ton of credit that not only did they win multiple rings, but they won them against each other. Had Lebron beaten Durant this year I'd place him above Kobe.

Kobe won as #2 behind Shaq, but I mean...Bron had some pretty decent teammates of his own and got beat by Dirk. Bron should have won more in Miami. I don't feel like Kobe lost a lot of championships he should have won.

I think Russell's two rings as a coach also separates him on this list.

One thing I love about the top of the list is these guys even won NCAA rings and Olympic medals

Just as a visual here.....NBA = NBA ring,  CR = Coaches ring, NCAA = NCAA ring, O = Olympic gold

Before we get started let it be noted...Arvydas Sabonis...One Olympic gold and about 200 million Euro championships and rings. It's off the charts.

Russell 11 NBA, 2 NCAA, 2 CR, O
Jordan 6 NBA, NCAA, 2O
Magic 5 NBA, NCAA, O
Kareem, 6 NBA, 3 NCAA
Duncan, 5 NBA
Shaq, 4 NBA, O
Bird, 3 NBA, O
Kobe 5 NBA, 2O
Wilt, 2 NBA
Isaiah, 2 NBA, NCAA
John Havlicek 8 NBA, NCAA
Steph Curry, 2 NBA
Bron, 3 NBA, 2O
D Wade, 3 NBA, O
Oscar Robertson NBA, O
KG NBA, O
George Mikan 5 NBA/BAA, 2 NBL
KC Jones 8 NBA, 2 NCAA, 2 CR, O
Sam Jones 10 NBA
Satch Sanders 10 NBA
Frank Ramsey 7 NBA, NCAA
Manu Ginobli 4 NBA, 1 Euro, O
Bob Cousy 6 NBA, NCAA
David Robinson 2 NBA, 2O
Senator Bill Bradley 2NBA, O
Bill Walton 2 NBA, 2 NCAA
Jerry West NBA, O, 8 rings as executive
Hakeem 2 NBA, O
Dr J NBA, 2 ABA
Dirk NBA
Tony Parker 4 NBA, 1 FIBA
Scottie Pippen 6 NBA, 2O
Tommy Heinsohn 8 NBA, 2 CR
Slater Martin 5 NBA
Dennis Rodman 5 NBA
Jim Pollard 5 NBA, NCAA
James Worthy 3 NBA, NCAA
Robert Parish 4 NBA
Dennis Johnson 3 NBA
Kevin McHale 3 NBA
Kevin Durant NBA, 2O
Jerry Lucas NBA, NCAA, O
Pau Gasol 2NBA, 3 Euro Basket Golds
Larry Siegfried 5 NBA, ABL, NCAA
Klay Thompson 2NBA, O
Draymond Green 2NBA, O
Clyde Drexler NBA, O
JoJo White 2NBA, O
Kyrie Irving NBA, O
Danny Ainge 2 NBA, and 1 more as executive, also played pro baseball
Jim Loscutof 7 NBA but not a single all star game
Robert Horry 7 NBA
Horace Grant 4 NBA
Don Nelson 5 NBA
Michael Cooper 5 NBA

Interesting side notes....Patrick Ewing 2O, NCAA
Grant Hill 2 NCAA, O
Christian Laettner 2 NCAA, O
Anthony Davis NCAA, O
Shane Battier 2NBA, NCAA
Alex Groza 2 NCAA, O
Ralph Beard 2 NCAA, O

So Russell is the only person to have rings in 4 major categories and Jordan and Magic are the only in 3.  Magic will now try to get one as an executive and MJ might bumble into one as an owner but I doubt it

It should also be noted that all the Olympic medals prior to 1992 were college kids. After 92 it was almost entirely pros although the rest of the world sent their pros too. I'm not entirely sure what exactly is up with that. Also I should point out as an American I don't recognize the 1972 Olympic loss to the Soviets. Also note the US and Soviet teams boycotted each other at the 80 and 84 Olympics

[RJ87]

Russell > Jordan > Lebron > Kobe

I'm fine with rings being a decider, but it should be "rings won as the best player on your team". Kobe has 2.

Then shouldn't finals record also be a factor?

[gouki88]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Surely you don't seriously have Curry, Havlicek and Thomas above LeBron. All the others can have  cases made for them, but with those three it's pretty hard. I guess Havlicek was one of the best players on the best team ever, but still hard to make the case.

[Eja117]

Russell > Jordan > Magic > Kareem > Duncan > Shaq > Bird > Kobe > Wilt > Isaiah Thomas > John Havlicek > Steph Curry > Lebron

Surely you don't seriously have Curry, Havlicek and Thomas above LeBron. All the others can have  cases made for them, but with those three it's pretty hard. I guess Havlicek was one of the best players on the best team ever, but still hard to make the case.

I think they have more impressive resumes and I try to judge careers by resume.

I look at a couple things. One is accomplishments like "ring as best player". Another thing I look at is success in other places/realms, which indicates the greatness isn't just luck or something like that. I look at who they won the ring against or how much they beat the spread by.  Like for example I sorta consider taking Indiana State to a finals appearance a huge accomplishment, as opposed to winning a ring at Kentucky if you're James Young or something.

To me Bron's career is just not that impressive judging against these other resumes. He's just the kid at the Y that waited and gathered up some of his best buddies and then went on a run and said "Look at me."  Whoop de doo.

One thing I don't look at as much is political awards and popularity contests like MVPs or even all star appearances.

Something that's a lot harder for me is stuff like rings won by 2nd best players on teams. Like Manu Ginobli has 4 rings and Euro championship. ....omg he also has an Olympic gold.....time to put him on the list