Author Topic: Idea: If we sign Hayward, could a trade for Kevin Love be next? (CLE/NY/Boston?)  (Read 7176 times)

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Offline loco_91

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No. Knicks make out like bandits in this trade. Melo is washed up. He had a negative BPM last year and he's owed $54M + 15% trade kicker the next two years. Oh and the second year is a player option, so if he's somehow good in Cleveland then he can just opt out after 1 year and demand another big contract--which Cleveland will have to give him because otherwise Lebron will walk!

Knicks should be the ones sending picks out. A more balanced trade would be something like:

Love to team with cap space
Melo + Knicks 2018 1st + (top 5 protected) + another decent asset from the team that gets Love to Cleveland
Nothing to Knicks

For the Cavs this makes sense if it will convince Lebron to stay in 2018, but it's clearly a downgrade basketball-wise. For the Knicks it makes basketball sense but not business sense, as Melo still sells tickets despite being bad. The third team is likely to be the winner in this trade if they can resurrect Love's career.

Resurrect his career? Did you watch CLE v. Celtics this past play-offs?

"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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Lol at this NBA 2k fantasy Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.

Offline PaulP34

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If we are getting Hayward, yeah we missed out on George, but if we were going to trade for PG, we can still trade for Love right? Carmelo makes 24.5 million and Love makes just under 22 million. Shouldn't be too hard to swing right?

If Cleveland wants Anthony, and the Knicks want assets, and we want another All Star caliber player...

This seems like something pretty plausible.
Just as a rough scenario:

Knicks get: 2019 Memphis pick, Clippers pick, Jae Crowder, Bradley+Filler.
Cavs get: Carmelo Anthony
Celtics get: Kevin Love

IT
Brown
Hayward
Love
Horford

yay, nay?
Even if we didn't get Hayward, could we sign+trade Jae+Olynyk in a similar scenario?

Problem with this idea is,  no matter what team we trade with, they are going to want the best assets we own. Even if its not a fair trade. If we want something from them, they will want what we dont wanna give up. 2018 Brooklyn 1rst the only unprotected pick we got left.

The Lakers protected 2-5 pick is untradable until the pick has officially been labeled. We dont know where this pick will end up. Could be the #1 overall pick inwhich we won't own it. Im hoping the balls fall to where the Brooklyn unprotected falls to #1 overall and the Lakers pick falls to #2 over all which would have unimaginable value. Id think the Celtics could trade them two picks together along with Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Rozier to New Orleans for Anthony Davis. They could draft Michael Porter and DeAndre Ayton or Mohamad Bamba to pair with Cousins.fair trade ? Id rather do that then Kevin Love for sure...

Offline Moranis

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There is no way the Cavs trade Love for Anthony.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - D. Daniels, Mitchell, G. Wallace, Melo, Noah
Deep Bench - Korver, Turner

Offline pearljammer10

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I wouldn't like Hayward and Love next to each other.

Offline kozlodoev

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No.
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Offline kozlodoev

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"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.
This is nonsense. There's no reason Love isn't worth exactly as much as Al Horford and Gordon Heyward right now.

He's coming off of a season where he averaged 19 and 11 in just 31 minutes, while shooting 37% from three. Don't forget he did this on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Offline crimson_stallion

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"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.
This is nonsense. There's no reason Love isn't worth exactly as much as Al Horford and Gordon Heyward right now.

He's coming off of a season where he averaged 19 and 11 in just 31 minutes, while shooting 37% from three. Don't forget he did this on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

He's also coming off a season in which he:

* Shot < 45% from the field
* Took only 20% of his shots inside 3 feet (and shot a woeful 56% on those shots)
* Played only 60 games
* Choked on the big stage when his team needed him most.

Three facts that seem to be defining characteristics for a guy who, in 9 NBA seasons:

* Has played 75+ games only twice
* Has shot over 46% from the field only once
* Has shot over 60% inside 3" only four times
* Didn't play a single playoff game until jumping on Lebron's coattails in Cleveland

Kevin Love is a career loser who is soft mentally, is fragile physically, is the ultimate definition of anti-clutch, and has among some of the worst leadership skills among all high profile players in the NBA.

BUT luckily for us we have some clutch guys and some quality leaders and really just need a big who can score and rebound the ball, so Kevin Love actually fits that role quite nicely.  If we got Hayward Love would only have to be our #3 or #4 option on offense, so hopefully his risk of injury risk would drop.

Though I am a bit concerned about how a starting lineup featuring Thomas,  Hayward, Love and Horford would fare defensively...that could be horrifically bad.  Even though Horford is a plus defender, he's no longer a spring chicken, and I could see him struggling to cover for all the defensive mistakes created by Thomas, Hayward and Love. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:03:50 PM by crimson_stallion »

Offline kozlodoev

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"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.
This is nonsense. There's no reason Love isn't worth exactly as much as Al Horford and Gordon Heyward right now.

He's coming off of a season where he averaged 19 and 11 in just 31 minutes, while shooting 37% from three. Don't forget he did this on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

He's also coming off a season in which he:

* Shot < 45% from the field
* Took only 20% of his shots inside 3 feet (and shot a woeful 56% on those shots)
* Played only 60 games
* Choked on the big stage when his team needed him most.

Three facts that seem to be characteristics that seem to be defining characteristics for a guy who, in 9 NBA seasons:

* Has played 75+ games only twice
* Has shot over 46% from the field only once
* Has shot over 60% inside 3" only four times
* Didn't play a single playoff game until jumping on Lebron's coattails in Cleveland

Kevin Love is a career loser who is soft mentally, is fragile physically, is the ultimate definition of anti-clutch, and has among some of the worst leadership skills among all high profile players in the NBA.
Yeah. Most of this also applies to Gordon Heyward, and yet folks around here are literally ready to beg on their knees for him to take their money.

If Love were a FA today, teams would be lining up to offer him max money. The idea that he's "barely worth his old max" is preposterous.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Offline crimson_stallion

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"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.
This is nonsense. There's no reason Love isn't worth exactly as much as Al Horford and Gordon Heyward right now.

He's coming off of a season where he averaged 19 and 11 in just 31 minutes, while shooting 37% from three. Don't forget he did this on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

He's also coming off a season in which he:

* Shot < 45% from the field
* Took only 20% of his shots inside 3 feet (and shot a woeful 56% on those shots)
* Played only 60 games
* Choked on the big stage when his team needed him most.

Three facts that seem to be characteristics that seem to be defining characteristics for a guy who, in 9 NBA seasons:

* Has played 75+ games only twice
* Has shot over 46% from the field only once
* Has shot over 60% inside 3" only four times
* Didn't play a single playoff game until jumping on Lebron's coattails in Cleveland

Kevin Love is a career loser who is soft mentally, is fragile physically, is the ultimate definition of anti-clutch, and has among some of the worst leadership skills among all high profile players in the NBA.
Yeah. Most of this also applies to Gordon Heyward, and yet folks around here are literally ready to beg on their knees for him to take their money.

If Love were a FA today, teams would be lining up to offer him max money. The idea that he's "barely worth his old max" is preposterous.

You're right - I have the exact same criticism's of Hayward for the most part.

Although there is one distinction - Hayward led the Jazz to a pretty strong record this year (and even put up a hell of a fight in the playoffs) in an incredibly strong Western Conference.  And he did that as the clear best player on that Utah team. 

That fact alone has raised my confidence in him quite a bit compared to where it was 6 months ago - however I'm still skeptical based on the fact that it was really the first season he's put together that was really all that impressive, and it happens to also been a contract year.

I remain extremely skeptical in Hayward's ability to turn this team around from a team that got nearly swept by Cleveland a couple of months ago, to one that can go toe-to-toe with them now.

I'm concerned by Hayward's defensive limitations (which I feel were covered up by Gobert's defensive brilliance), by his merely average rebounding for his size, and by his relative inability to create his own shot in ISO situations. 

I really see Hayward as more of a complimentary star who would strive playing off the ball,   rather than a guy who you can just get the ball to at the end of a game and watch him make something happen. 

I'm also concerned by the fact that clearing enough cap space to sign Hayward also means renouncing Olynyk, which (combined with the inevitable loss of Amir) leaves is entirely void of a second starting big man...or the cap space to try and sign one. 

This means our best option (if we did get him) may be to trade Crowder or Bradley away in return for a starting PF...in which case you need to ask yourself - how much do you gain from adding Hayward above what you would lose by giving up an Avery Bradley / Jae Crowder?

I also don't have any real confidence in the idea of either Hayward or Tatum playing the four over the duration of a whole season.  I think both could play it in stretches in certain small ball lineups, but not for a full season.  That leaves a huge logjam at the SF spot with Hayward, Crowder, Tatum and Brown all being deserving of minutes. 

So yeah...on paper I like the idea of adding Hayward.  In reality, I wonder if it may actually make us worse, not better.

I can't help but feel that our best chance to improve this team would be trading out Horford, but I know Danny would never do that.

Offline crimson_stallion

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Also worth noting - if Boston does sign Hayward, then getting Love in a trade would be nigh on impossible for cap reasons. 

In this scenario Boston and Cleveland would both be over the salary cap, so we'd need to match salaries.  Kevin Love is on $22m - so Boston would need to send around $20m out at a minimum.

If we assume that Danny is unwilling to give up young prospects or future lottery picks (which seems to be the case thus far) then we would need to start by including both Crowder ($6.7m) and Bradley (8.8m).  Now assume we throw in Jordan Mickey too ($1.4m) and Dimirius Jackson ($1.4m). 

That brings the total to $18.3m, so we'd likely need to add at least one more player - probably Terry Rozier.

Call me crazy, but I think that any scenario where we give up Bradley, Crowder and Rozier for Kevin Love is a ridiculous overpay - and that's pretty much a bare minimum we'd need to give up just to make the salary amount.

In other words - this isn't happening.

Plus we potentially make out biggest target (the Cavs) better with this deal, which is a conflict of interest and certainly is not desirable.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 11:45:20 PM by crimson_stallion »

Offline jdz101

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"Resurrect" might have been too strong, but right now Love isn't worth much (if any) more  than his old-max contract. If you trade for him you're gambling that you can put him in a featured role and bring back the Minnesota version of Love.
This is nonsense. There's no reason Love isn't worth exactly as much as Al Horford and Gordon Heyward right now.

He's coming off of a season where he averaged 19 and 11 in just 31 minutes, while shooting 37% from three. Don't forget he did this on a team with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

He's also coming off a season in which he:

* Shot < 45% from the field
* Took only 20% of his shots inside 3 feet (and shot a woeful 56% on those shots)
* Played only 60 games
* Choked on the big stage when his team needed him most.

Three facts that seem to be characteristics that seem to be defining characteristics for a guy who, in 9 NBA seasons:

* Has played 75+ games only twice
* Has shot over 46% from the field only once
* Has shot over 60% inside 3" only four times
* Didn't play a single playoff game until jumping on Lebron's coattails in Cleveland

Kevin Love is a career loser who is soft mentally, is fragile physically, is the ultimate definition of anti-clutch, and has among some of the worst leadership skills among all high profile players in the NBA.
Yeah. Most of this also applies to Gordon Heyward, and yet folks around here are literally ready to beg on their knees for him to take their money.

Well no...not at all. Relying on the reader not to check facts doesn't mean the statement is correct.

* Shot < 45% from the field - nope
* Took only 20% of his shots inside 3 feet (and shot a woeful 56% on those shots) nope
* Played only 60 games nope
* Choked on the big stage when his team needed him most. nope - team hilariously outgunned in the second round of the playoffs

* Has played 75+ games only twice nope
* Has shot over 46% from the field only once nope
* Has shot over 60% inside 3" only four times nope
* Didn't play a single playoff game until jumping on Lebron's coattails in Cleveland nope



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