Deduction: Crowder is gone if we sign Hayward

[ssspence]

I am not against the idea but just tell me why Portland would want to do this?

They seem to have a glut of bigs.  Just drafted Zach Collins to go along with Nurkic, Leonard, Ezeli, and Ed Davis.

Crowder should be an upgrade over Aminu and Harkless at SF, and one of them can be a small ball 4.

Portland would not do this.  They are WAY over the luxury tax, and are not looking to add salary.  This trade would cost them about $10 million in luxury tax bill.

(Also, they've waived Ezeli for what it's worth.)

Paul Allen wouldn't pay $10MM to have a starting SF on one of the best contracts in the NBA? For a guy that they've basically past over?

[saltlover]

I am not against the idea but just tell me why Portland would want to do this?

They seem to have a glut of bigs.  Just drafted Zach Collins to go along with Nurkic, Leonard, Ezeli, and Ed Davis.

Crowder should be an upgrade over Aminu and Harkless at SF, and one of them can be a small ball 4.

Portland would not do this.  They are WAY over the luxury tax, and are not looking to add salary.  This trade would cost them about $10 million in luxury tax bill.

(Also, they've waived Ezeli for what it's worth.)

Paul Allen wouldn't pay $10MM to have a starting SF on one of the best contracts in the NBA? For a guy that they've basically past over?

When you have to pay an extra $10 million a year for that contract, it suddenly becomes a lot less valuable.  It'd be lake paying Crowder $17 million a year.  Reasonable, given other contracts and his production, maybe, but not something you run out and do.

[saltlover]

My final prediction:

Crowder for Juan Hermangomez.  Denver just signed Millsap, so they have limited minutes at PF.  Meanwhile, this will cause them officially part with Gallinari, leaving a hole at SF.

On the Celtics side, this would allow them to have the cap room for Hayward.  The only thing they'd need to do is renounce Olynyk, Jerebko, and Young.  They could bring Yabusele over.  They wouldn't even need to release Mickey, much less dump Jackson.  I'm fairly certain they'd even have the cap space to sign a second round pick (presumably Semi, but maybe Nader) to more than a minimum deal.

So that's my prediction -- if we get Hayward, Crowder for Hernangomez (maybe with Mike Miller's non-guaranteed salary tossed in if Denver doesn't have the cap room to make the trade straight).

[jpotter33]

Is Hernangomez ready to start at the 4 for us, though?

[saltlover]

Is Hernangomez ready to start at the 4 for us, though?

I think we get a vet 5 like Pachulia to start and play Al at the 4 (I know, you'll probably hate that, but Zaza is the type of energy big you might sort of like).  Al would split time at the 4 and 5.  Juancho would get backup 4 minutes, sometimes behind Al, and sometimes next to him.

[celticinorlando]

Crowder would need to be moved for a big

[wiley]

My final prediction:

Crowder for Juan Hermangomez.  Denver just signed Millsap, so they have limited minutes at PF.  Meanwhile, this will cause them officially part with Gallinari, leaving a hole at SF.

On the Celtics side, this would allow them to have the cap room for Hayward.  The only thing they'd need to do is renounce Olynyk, Jerebko, and Young.  They could bring Yabusele over.  They wouldn't even need to release Mickey, much less dump Jackson.  I'm fairly certain they'd even have the cap space to sign a second round pick (presumably Semi, but maybe Nader) to more than a minimum deal.

So that's my prediction -- if we get Hayward, Crowder for Hernangomez (maybe with Mike Miller's non-guaranteed salary tossed in if Denver doesn't have the cap room to make the trade straight).

Yes....if you count Tyler Lydon the rookie, the Nuggets have 6 power forwards on the roster, rather pure PF's at that.

Millsap
Faried
Lyles
D. Arthur
W. Hernangomez
Lydon

[inverselock]

But I do think Crowder is the odd man out if Hayward comes, which is something that I haven't thought until this afternoon.

Really?  It's been obvious to me since those TD Garden cheers for Hayward and Crowder's less-than-diplomatic response.  I just can't see them co-existing nor should they.  The SF position is badly in need of talent upgrade (sorry Jae, you've been good soldier but this team needs more).

Regarding Okafor, I've been a fan, but I do understand the league has gone in a different direction.  Even so, he has to be better than Amir or Zeller.

Yeah, I've also posited elsewhere that a Hayward signing implies a Crowder trade based on their "history" (or at least Crowder's immaturity) from this past season.

But what starting-level PF would we get to replace him with that salary?

The only immaturity was the fans response to Crowder about the minor insignificant comment that has nothing specifically to do with Hayward.   "History" lol.   Fans are so dramatic.   


Celtics should be looking to keep their biggest wings and dump guards first due to the small frontcourt.   Hayward is an on-ball player, Crowder is off the ball, they'll fit fine.   

[TheSundanceKid]

Clippers have an exception big enough from the Paul trade. I think we end up trading him there if necessary and possibly change the pick protections in return. The market is a bit crazy at the moment but at the deadline I expect there will be some teams wanting to dump some salary, possibly a starting level pf.

Edit: actually it may be a few $1000s short...

I could also see us trading with the 76ers again and getting Okafor for Crowder

[RodyTur10]

My final prediction:

Crowder for Juan Hermangomez.  Denver just signed Millsap, so they have limited minutes at PF.  Meanwhile, this will cause them officially part with Gallinari, leaving a hole at SF.

So that's my prediction -- if we get Hayward, Crowder for Hernangomez (maybe with Mike Miller's non-guaranteed salary tossed in if Denver doesn't have the cap room to make the trade straight).

That would be great. I'm very high on Hernangomez. Versatile defender, good length, excellent shooter. To me he's comparable in talent to Tatum. Therefore I actually don't think Denver will make this deal, but we can hope.

If we were making a deal with Denver might as well try and grab Harris as well. Throw in Bradley as another veteran piece to increase their chances of making the playoffs in a tough conference (Harris is in the last year of his contract as well).

Faried can be the superfluous salary filler. And Boston would have to give up a pick or two.

To Denver: Crowder, Bradley, Mickey, Boston '18 1st, LA Clippers '19 1st
To Boston: Hernangomez, Harris, Faried

Though to me that looks a little one-sided. I would love that deal.

[saltlover]

My final prediction:

Crowder for Juan Hermangomez.  Denver just signed Millsap, so they have limited minutes at PF.  Meanwhile, this will cause them officially part with Gallinari, leaving a hole at SF.

So that's my prediction -- if we get Hayward, Crowder for Hernangomez (maybe with Mike Miller's non-guaranteed salary tossed in if Denver doesn't have the cap room to make the trade straight).

That would be great. I'm very high on Hernangomez. Versatile defender, good length, excellent shooter. To me he's comparable in talent to Tatum. Therefore I actually don't think Denver will make this deal, but we can hope.

If we were making a deal with Denver might as well try and grab Harris as well. Throw in Bradley as another veteran piece to increase their chances of making the playoffs in a tough conference (Harris is in the last year of his contract as well).

Faried can be the superfluous salary filler. And Boston would have to give up a pick or two.

To Denver: Crowder, Bradley, Mickey, Boston '18 1st, LA Clippers '19 1st
To Boston: Hernangomez, Harris, Faried

Though to me that looks a little one-sided. I would love that deal.

Harris isn't available.  He and Jokic were the two players Denver brought to their Millsap meeting.  They see him as a keeper.

Also, your deal does not accomplish the goal of creating cap room.  It sets us back by an additional $2 million.  Let's just focus on getting Hernangomez, who's now a luxury item for Denver as he's blocked by Millsap.

[ThePaintedArea]

... my base assumption has been that Crowder would start at the 4 with Hayward on the team.

I have my doubts.  To be sure, Stevens has shown a willingness to play Crowder at swing (to use his terminology), but not as a starter. He's also aware that the results are not stellar - though he points out that the sample size is small.

Point taken, Brad; but that's because YOU didn't choose that lineup except in special circumstances. The Chicago series is a marked exception, though to his credit Stevens didn't stay with it in the second round when Washington was overwhelming Boston with their size.

So it's not that Brad doesn't believe in small lineups, or even in Crowder's ability in that context. But to start the game? As the standard lineup? Unlikely.

Crowder is 6'6", so for Boston a "small lineup" was really small; the most used group was Thomas, Bradley, Smart, Crowder, Horford (with Smart as the primary ballhandler, giving Thomas a chance to play off the ball).

One of the many ways that Jae upped his game this past season was by raising his defensive rebounding (17.3%, a career high), something Coach no doubt appreciated, given the team's struggles in that area. But as a full-time swing, that's a problem.

Is Tatum a game-changer? Maybe. At a long 6'8", he might have a future as a starting swing.

Crowder can fit on just about any team in the league as a starting wing. As a swing, he's best as a backup.

But I do think Crowder is the odd man out if Hayward comes, which is something that I haven't thought until this afternoon.

If so, it's a lot to give up.  As you've noted elsewhere, Boston badly needs shot-creation; and Crowder doesn't give you a lot of that. But what he does give you is winning basketball in a lot of areas.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Crowder would need to be moved for a big

fine by me!

hey hey ho ho
jae crowder gotta go!!

[HomerSapien]

My final prediction:

Crowder for Juan Hermangomez.  Denver just signed Millsap, so they have limited minutes at PF.  Meanwhile, this will cause them officially part with Gallinari, leaving a hole at SF.

On the Celtics side, this would allow them to have the cap room for Hayward.  The only thing they'd need to do is renounce Olynyk, Jerebko, and Young.  They could bring Yabusele over.  They wouldn't even need to release Mickey, much less dump Jackson.  I'm fairly certain they'd even have the cap space to sign a second round pick (presumably Semi, but maybe Nader) to more than a minimum deal.

So that's my prediction -- if we get Hayward, Crowder for Hernangomez (maybe with Mike Miller's non-guaranteed salary tossed in if Denver doesn't have the cap room to make the trade straight).

I agree with your prediction, Saltlover.  I had been running through different scenarios of how to create max cap space for Hayward earlier today, and I landed on this exact same trade.  I was looking for a logical thread to post the idea in, and in reading through this one discovered that I was late to the game on this scenario.  Given the reports last year that the Celtics were going to take Juancho with the pick they eventually used on Yabusele, Crowder's prospective redundance, and their need for cap space, I think this is a very realistic  trade.

I was also looking at ways that we could somehow turn the trade into a 3-team deal with PHI to get Okafor and Hernangomez (Crowder to Den, DJax and Miller or Barton to Den), but I couldn't create max cap space without also moving Terry Rozier somewhere which I get the sense Danny does not want to do if at all possible (would also require keeping Yabu overseas).