Paul George Traded To OKC

[Roy H.]

Woj just said on ESPN that the Pacers wanted Crowder/Smart/multiple 1srs but we weren't willing to commit til we signed Hayward. Sounds like they panicked and jumped the gun early for some reason.

So, no LAL pick and we still said no?

Unreal.

I don't think we said no. I think we said to wait until the Hayward situation is addressed.

They asked for a handshake and a commitment. We said no.

Even without Hayward that would have been a ridiculous steal.

"Ridiculous steal?"  For a one year rental?  Come on.

If you ignore all the reports that George was interested in re-upping here, I guess. George retweeted Pierce's suggestion that we trade for him. But none of that matters?

Roy,

Please humor me and others and list "ALL the reports" that George was interested in re-upping here!!  Then, list all the "reports" stating that he was heading to LA in 2018-2019!!

Thanks,

Smitty77

The one time George spoke publicly, he indicated he wanted to be traded here.

Link to the video?

Smitty77

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=90894.0

[green_bballers13]

It has been really difficult for me to reason out Indy's thought process over the last week or so. 

First, there was the report that they wouldn't let Boston speak with Paul George to determine his willingness to re-sign, despite the fact that such a conversation could have made us more willing raise our offer.  As it is, we had to assume that he was just a rental and negotiate accordingly.

Now, they impose an artificial deadline on themselves before taking a lower offer.  Why?  I'm sure the OKC offer would have still been available a week from now. 

The report is that Indy didn't want to make a powerhouse in the East.  Again, why?  Indy isn't competing anytime soon anyway.  Cleveland and Boston both decline after a few years - the former because of Lebron's eventual decline, the latter because of money.  When they come down, ideally you're ready to play again.  So what's the problem? 

Rather than dealing with Cleveland or Boston or even LAL, they decided to take an overpaid SG who I'm not convinced is even a positive asset and a mediocre prospect big for their star forward.  I don't get any of this.

They accepted our offer. Danny didn't want to pull the trigger yet, so they moved on.

There's none of this "they were asking for too much" or "they didn't want to trade in Conference". They were willing to deal and asked for a commitment. Danny said no.

But if Danny wants to wait until he talks to Hayward, why not let him wait?  That OKC offer would have still been there in a week, I'm sure.  I don't see the incentive for Indy to rush this out.  If anything, the free agency shakeout might have made somebody panic and overpay for George.

I don't know what motivated Indy, but they were ready to deal with us. Not committing was a miscalculation in my opinion. Paul George is elite.

In my opinion, PG13 is elite-ish. Borderline top 10 that's not top 3 at his position (tough when Lebron/KD/Kawhi are the comps). I don't view him as the guy who carries a team to a ring. I think he's better than Butler and Hayward, but they're in the same tier. don't want Danny cashing in the good stuff for PG13.

[Roy H.]

It has been really difficult for me to reason out Indy's thought process over the last week or so. 

First, there was the report that they wouldn't let Boston speak with Paul George to determine his willingness to re-sign, despite the fact that such a conversation could have made us more willing raise our offer.  As it is, we had to assume that he was just a rental and negotiate accordingly.

Now, they impose an artificial deadline on themselves before taking a lower offer.  Why?  I'm sure the OKC offer would have still been available a week from now. 

The report is that Indy didn't want to make a powerhouse in the East.  Again, why?  Indy isn't competing anytime soon anyway.  Cleveland and Boston both decline after a few years - the former because of Lebron's eventual decline, the latter because of money.  When they come down, ideally you're ready to play again.  So what's the problem? 

Rather than dealing with Cleveland or Boston or even LAL, they decided to take an overpaid SG who I'm not convinced is even a positive asset and a mediocre prospect big for their star forward.  I don't get any of this.

They accepted our offer. Danny didn't want to pull the trigger yet, so they moved on.

There's none of this "they were asking for too much" or "they didn't want to trade in Conference". They were willing to deal and asked for a commitment. Danny said no.

But if Danny wants to wait until he talks to Hayward, why not let him wait?  That OKC offer would have still been there in a week, I'm sure.  I don't see the incentive for Indy to rush this out.  If anything, the free agency shakeout might have made somebody panic and overpay for George.

I don't know what motivated Indy, but they were ready to deal with us. Not committing was a miscalculation in my opinion. Paul George is elite.

In my opinion, PG13 is elite-ish. Borderline top 10 that's not top 3 at his position (tough when Lebron/KD/Kawhi are the comps). I don't view him as the guy who carries a team to a ring. I think he's better than Butler and Hayward, but they're in the same tier. don't want Danny cashing in the good stuff for PG13.

Perhaps not "the good stuff". But Crowder, Smart, and non-lottery firsts? That's the bargain bin.

[jpotter33]

http://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/881300075259060224

Apparently Indy gave Boston one last chance before going to OKC. Can't believe Danny was that stingy to not even offer up the Lakers pick. You have to think that Hayward would've been in the bag with a George trade already agreed to.

[hodgy03038]

http://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/881300075259060224

Apparently Indy gave Boston one last chance before going to OKC. Can't believe Danny was that stingy to not even offer up the Lakers pick. You have to think that Hayward would've been in the bag with a George trade already agreed to.

Way to go Danny. You couldn't even give them enough assurance to wait a few days. That is a fail man.

[Roy H.]

http://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/881300075259060224

Apparently Indy gave Boston one last chance before going to OKC. Can't believe Danny was that stingy to not even offer up the Lakers pick. You have to think that Hayward would've been in the bag with a George trade already agreed to.

They didn't even demand the Lakers pick from what I understand. They just wanted a handshake that they had a done deal for Crowder, Smart and picks.

[Smitty77]

Woj just said on ESPN that the Pacers wanted Crowder/Smart/multiple 1srs but we weren't willing to commit til we signed Hayward. Sounds like they panicked and jumped the gun early for some reason.

So, no LAL pick and we still said no?

Unreal.

I don't think we said no. I think we said to wait until the Hayward situation is addressed.

They asked for a handshake and a commitment. We said no.

Even without Hayward that would have been a ridiculous steal.

"Ridiculous steal?"  For a one year rental?  Come on.

If you ignore all the reports that George was interested in re-upping here, I guess. George retweeted Pierce's suggestion that we trade for him. But none of that matters?

Roy,

Please humor me and others and list "ALL the reports" that George was interested in re-upping here!!  Then, list all the "reports" stating that he was heading to LA in 2018-2019!!

Thanks,

Smitty77

The one time George spoke publicly, he indicated he wanted to be traded here.

Link to the video?

Smitty77

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=90894.0

Went through this very DATED thread and could NOT find a video with George saying he would re-sign with Boston!!

Help me out Roy!!

Thanks,

Smitty77

[Moranis]

It has been really difficult for me to reason out Indy's thought process over the last week or so. 

First, there was the report that they wouldn't let Boston speak with Paul George to determine his willingness to re-sign, despite the fact that such a conversation could have made us more willing raise our offer.  As it is, we had to assume that he was just a rental and negotiate accordingly.

Now, they impose an artificial deadline on themselves before taking a lower offer.  Why?  I'm sure the OKC offer would have still been available a week from now. 

The report is that Indy didn't want to make a powerhouse in the East.  Again, why?  Indy isn't competing anytime soon anyway.  Cleveland and Boston both decline after a few years - the former because of Lebron's eventual decline, the latter because of money.  When they come down, ideally you're ready to play again.  So what's the problem? 

Rather than dealing with Cleveland or Boston or even LAL, they decided to take an overpaid SG who I'm not convinced is even a positive asset and a mediocre prospect big for their star forward.  I don't get any of this.

They accepted our offer. Danny didn't want to pull the trigger yet, so they moved on.

There's none of this "they were asking for too much" or "they didn't want to trade in Conference". They were willing to deal and asked for a commitment. Danny said no.

He should have said no.  What if he makes a commitment, doesn't get Hayward and then George leaves after a year?  All because Indy, who have absolutely nothing else going on, won't wait a few days.

Mike

There's risk in any trade. Do we have so little confidence in our franchise and city that we're worried about players bolting to join losing teams offering less money.

Roy, you realize that deal makes it impossible to sign Hayward though, right?  Celts needed to wait to sign GH first in order to get both players.  Otherwise, they're looking at just PG instead of possibly GH, Crowder, and Smart.  It just becomes very important that we seal the deal with Hayward now.

no it doesn't. You make the deal and then finalize it after free agency opens just like they are doing with OKC.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is an interesting piece from Deadspin, basically saying that Ainge DID try to get him and Indiana just said "nah".

It also highlight Ainge's stinginess.

NSWF: Profanity. You have been warned.

https://tinyurl.com/y9qzs482

This is a great take.

That reluctance calls into question not just the likelihood but the sagacity of a potential Hayward signing—Hayward is 27 years old, and a max free-agent contract in Boston would take him into his thirties. If the Celtics are content hoarding those assets and playing the long game, why take on a massive deal for a star who might not any longer be a star by the time the rest of those assets mature into contender-quality pieces? For that matter, what the hell was the Al Horford signing all about? Horford is already 31, with three years left on his deal, including a $31 million player option for his age-34 season. You wonder how he feels about the Celtics prioritizing unprotected draft picks in future seasons over releasing a package of modest assets in order to make a serious run at a championship. By the time Jayson Tatum is ready to lead the Celtics, Al Horford is going to be an overpaid stiff.

[MBunge]

http://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/881300075259060224

Apparently Indy gave Boston one last chance before going to OKC. Can't believe Danny was that stingy to not even offer up the Lakers pick. You have to think that Hayward would've been in the bag with a George trade already agreed to.

They didn't even demand the Lakers pick from what I understand. They just wanted a handshake that they had a done deal for Crowder, Smart and picks.

And if you don't get Hayward?  And George leaves after one year?

Mike

[Roy H.]

http://twitter.com/ClevisMurray/status/881300075259060224

Apparently Indy gave Boston one last chance before going to OKC. Can't believe Danny was that stingy to not even offer up the Lakers pick. You have to think that Hayward would've been in the bag with a George trade already agreed to.

They didn't even demand the Lakers pick from what I understand. They just wanted a handshake that they had a done deal for Crowder, Smart and picks.

And if you don't get Hayward?  And George leaves after one year?

Mike

Then we're out a couple of role players and we lose the opportunity to draft the next Fab / Giddens / JJJ / Hunter?

[Roy H.]

This is an interesting piece from Deadspin, basically saying that Ainge DID try to get him and Indiana just said "nah".

NSWF: Profanity. You have been warned.

http://deadspin.com/someone-****ed-up-in-order-for-that-paul-george-trade-t-1796569976?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

There's no first-hand reporting there.

Is there any reason to doubt Woj's story? That Indy wanted to do a deal, but Danny wouldn't agree without a Hayward signing?

[hpantazo]

This is an interesting piece from Deadspin, basically saying that Ainge DID try to get him and Indiana just said "nah".

NSWF: Profanity. You have been warned.

http://deadspin.com/someone-****ed-up-in-order-for-that-paul-george-trade-t-1796569976?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

There's no first-hand reporting there.

Is there any reason to doubt Woj's story? That Indy wanted to do a deal, but Danny wouldn't agree without a Hayward signing?

There was no reason for urgency on the Pacers end though. I tend to believe reports that they never really intended to send George to an Eastern Conference team and just used the Celtics to leverage a decent offer from a West Coast team.

They may also despise dealing with Ainge , who believed he had leverage, and the went with the OKC offer out of spite, again considering that they had no reason for refusing to wait a few days for the Celtics.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

This is an interesting piece from Deadspin, basically saying that Ainge DID try to get him and Indiana just said "nah".

NSWF: Profanity. You have been warned.

http://deadspin.com/someone-****ed-up-in-order-for-that-paul-george-trade-t-1796569976?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

There's no first-hand reporting there.

Is there any reason to doubt Woj's story? That Indy wanted to do a deal, but Danny wouldn't agree without a Hayward signing?

Which is why that Deadspin article placed the blame on the Pacers dumb GM as well.

But as the article states, what happens now? This is an interesting take (long but interesting).

That reluctance calls into question not just the likelihood but the sagacity of a potential Hayward signing—Hayward is 27 years old, and a max free-agent contract in Boston would take him into his thirties. If the Celtics are content hoarding those assets and playing the long game, why take on a massive deal for a star who might not any longer be a star by the time the rest of those assets mature into contender-quality pieces? For that matter, what the hell was the Al Horford signing all about? Horford is already 31, with three years left on his deal, including a $31 million player option for his age-34 season. You wonder how he feels about the Celtics prioritizing unprotected draft picks in future seasons over releasing a package of modest assets in order to make a serious run at a championship. By the time Jayson Tatum is ready to lead the Celtics, Al Horford is going to be an overpaid stiff.

But forget those guys, for a moment: what we have learned in the past two weeks is the Celtics could’ve had Jimmy Butler for a reasonable price, and could’ve also had Paul George for a reasonable price. There is a universe in which the Celtics open the 2017-2018 NBA season with Isaiah Thomas, Jimmy Butler, Paul George, and Al Horford all in their starting lineup, with at least someone from the Marcus Smart-Avery Bradley-Jaylen Brown-Jae Crowder-Jayson Tatum-Terry Rozier group still in their pocket, and probably some number of future draft assets. That team certainly has the look! That would be a fun universe to inhabit, for Celtics fans.

All this leaves Ainge defenders in a weird spot—was Ainge right to offer four draft picks for Paul George as recently as the February 23 trade deadline? Or was Ainge right to offer nothing more valuable than Oladipo and Sabonis this offseason? It’s hard to make a case that both positions were right, because the drop from four ****’ draft picks to nah, you can’t have Jaylen Brown is incredibly steep, and can’t be accounted for in the three months of Paul George in a Celtics uniform that passed in the meantime.

What do we do now?

[Smitty77]

This is an interesting piece from Deadspin, basically saying that Ainge DID try to get him and Indiana just said "nah".

NSWF: Profanity. You have been warned.

http://deadspin.com/someone-****ed-up-in-order-for-that-paul-george-trade-t-1796569976?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

There's no first-hand reporting there.

Is there any reason to doubt Woj's story? That Indy wanted to do a deal, but Danny wouldn't agree without a Hayward signing?

I tend to believe Woj, although he has become even MORE sensational since joining ESPN and his misses as accumulating rather quickly!!  That being said, I want to see video of George saying he was going to re-up with Boston if we gave up a boatload to get him!!

I am assuming that such a video does NOT exist!!

Smitty77