Paul George Traded To OKC

[kraidstar]

Honestly an IT/Horford/PG13/Hayward lineup would be unlikely to win a championship, and would be absurdly expensive to keep together next year.

Aside from the 2004 Pistons, what was the last team to win an NBA championship without a top-10 player?

We might have just dodged a major bullet.

I think you could make the case that Paul George is a top 10 player

Maybe.

But since the 1980's every title team was led by someone better than him except for maybe the 2004 Pistons.

If he's our best player it's highly unlikely we win a championship.

This is the cold, hard reality of the NBA.

The vast majority of championship teams are led by all-time great players like LeBron, MJ, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Bird, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem etc.

So were those guys all time greats before they won a championship? Or did they win a championship, and we're then considered all-time greats?

Where does Wade land? Kawhi? Paul Pierce?

How about up and coming/current ringless stars like Giannis? Anthony Davis? Harden? Westbrook?

Nah, you can usually tell who the true blue-chip players are.

Harden and Westbrook are both very overrated. I've been saying that for years. Davis is great but plays for one of the most inept organizations in pro sports. I give him a pass, and I'd trade the farm for him. Giannis is so young it is hard to tell what he will become.

Pierce had KG, who was arguably a top-5 player at the time. I love PP, but he wouldn't have won without KG, who was the better player.

Wade had Shaq, LeBron, and, most importantly, David Stern.

And are you seriously gonna compare PG13 to Bird/Kareem/MJ etc? He isn't close to that caliber. Those guys CHANGED THE LEAGUE when they came in.

And apparently most of the NBA agrees about George, because a good chunk of the league could have beaten OKC's offer.

George is an all-star, but he's not an all-time player.

Don't get me wrong, I like him a lot. But I'll be very surprised if he's ever the best player on a championship team.

I wasn't comparing PG to MJ, etc. I just don't buy the whole "you need an all time great to win a ring" narrative. PG may not be in the strata of Bird/Magic in terms of changing the league, but IMO, if he won a ring here, he'd then be considered to be an all-time great. It's not crazy to think he could have an MVP-type impact IMO, especially given how he's performed in the past.

I bring up Pierce because neither Pierce nor KG could've won it without the other. And I don't think Pierce was considered an all-timer before he won a ring. An all-star, yes, but not, all-time. Shaq was clearly past his prime in Miami, and Duncan was clearly past his prime when he won his last ring. Wade and Kawhi both carried those teams. Were they considered all-time greats at the time? Or did their reputation suddenly boom after that first ring?

One of my fave examples is TMac. I really think if TMac stayed healthy, and he and Kobe had been switched (aka TMac played with Shaq), I really think the narrative would've been different on his career. Currently, I don't think he's considered as one of the all-time greats, but if he played next to Shaq and won 3 rings, I think he would've been.

I agree with most of what you're saying.

History does judge players much differently based on their championship pedigree, and some guys are unfairly undervalued (or overvalued).

I think in some ways George is UNDERVALUED by C's fans. I think we don't get to see how great he is on a daily basis - that combined with his playoff disappointment on a bad team reminds me a LOT of Pierce ten or fifteen years ago.

He'd make a fine #2 IMO on the right team. And that is a big compliment.

I just don't think we have the pieces in place to accommodate that. Especially considering how good the Warriors are right now.

[Eja117]

People seem to think that 21mill a year in this league gets you an all star or something

yeah that is like 60% of the 10 year max and is 4 million less than the under 7 year max

There won't be a single all star (certainly not one in their mid 20s) signing for anything close to 21mill this year.

I suppose Teague just signed for like 18. Maybe that's as close as you get.

Do you understand how the max structure works in terms of escalating with experience? Look at the salaries of young all-stars/borderline all-stars. Start with studs like Giannis and CJ McCollum.

CJ is making way more than VO and isn't an all star.  Giannis also makes significantly more.

Do you think you can go out and sign a Giannis or trade for one? Is that what you think was going to happen here? You think a year of PG was going to get you Giannis or they were going to draft a Giannis or a CJ McCollum? And that they'd wait for years to give them a contract like those guys?

Nice try with the straw man. Per year, Giannis makes $4M more than Oladipo, CJ $5.5M more. We're talking a 4-6% difference in terms of the cap. That's negligible. The fact is that young stars are capped; they cannot make a ton of money. Oladipo makes almost as much as possible for a player his age.

You're confusing real world context with straw man

[LilRip]

Just up from the BG

For much of the past year, the Celtics had been making a push toward acquiring Pacers forward Paul George. As recently as Friday, Boston still believed it was in the mix to acquire the All-Star.

But on Friday night, the Pacers sent George to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for guard Victor Oladipo and forward Domantas Sabonis in a deal that sent shockwaves through the NBA for the seemingly paltry return Indiana received.

According to a league source, the Celtics had made several attempts to acquire George this season, including one offer prior to the February trade deadline that could have come at a massive cost.

The Celtics at that time offered a package centered on the 2017 first-round pick they were to receive from the Nets, as well as three other future first-round choices, a source said. That Nets pick, of course, ultimately turned into the No. 1 overall selection.

Even though George was slated to become a free agent after next season, it was believed that Boston’s reasoning at the time was that it would essentially get two years of George in the playoffs, and that he would become ingrained in the winning culture and hopefully re-sign.

But the deadline came and went with no deal, and the talks were resuscitated prior to the NBA Draft. At that time, a source said, Boston offered the Pacers three starters and two first-round picks, although the offer did not include the pick Boston will receive from the Nets next year, or the future first-round pick they received when they sent the top pick this year to the 76ers.

Eventually, a league source said, that deal evolved to become three future first-round picks and two Celtics starters. But it turned out that was not enough, either. In the end, George ended up with Oklahoma City, and the Celtics were left to turn their focus toward their pursuit of the free agent forward, Gordon Hayward.

Tough to believe.

Tough to believe indeed. Then again, it's also tough to believe that PG would be traded for Dipo and Sabonis and zero (!!!!) picks!

[Ilikesports17]

People seem to think that 21mill a year in this league gets you an all star or something

yeah that is like 60% of the 10 year max and is 4 million less than the under 7 year max

There won't be a single all star (certainly not one in their mid 20s) signing for anything close to 21mill this year.

I suppose Teague just signed for like 18. Maybe that's as close as you get.

Oladipo isn't making an All Star team...

Neither is Crowder or Bradley. And a year from now when PG makes the all star team (probably) it will be for the Lakers.

I think that making 2nd team All-NBA Defense is equal to making the All-Star Team and making the 1st team All-NBA Defense is better than making the All-Star Team.  Do NOT underestimate what AB has ALREADY accomplished (TWICE).

Smitty77

I can't possibly disagree with that more. Offense wins championships in the NBA

Point differentials win championships. Lol

[Smitty77]

People seem to think that 21mill a year in this league gets you an all star or something

yeah that is like 60% of the 10 year max and is 4 million less than the under 7 year max

There won't be a single all star (certainly not one in their mid 20s) signing for anything close to 21mill this year.

I suppose Teague just signed for like 18. Maybe that's as close as you get.

Oladipo isn't making an All Star team...

Neither is Crowder or Bradley. And a year from now when PG makes the all star team (probably) it will be for the Lakers.

I think that making 2nd team All-NBA Defense is equal to making the All-Star Team and making the 1st team All-NBA Defense is better than making the All-Star Team.  Do NOT underestimate what AB has ALREADY accomplished (TWICE).

Smitty77

I can't possibly disagree with that more. Offense wins championships in the NBA

Bill Russell might disagree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[liam]

Just saw this " There was a belief by the Cavaliers that Indiana president of basketball operations Kevin Pritchard, when it came down to pulling the trigger on a George deal, felt more comfortable shipping him to a Western Conference team rather than an East rival -- the Celtics and Cleveland both made countless inquiries -- eliminating a potential roadblock as the Pacers begin a rebuild."  Interesting...

[Smitty77]

Honestly an IT/Horford/PG13/Hayward lineup would be unlikely to win a championship, and would be absurdly expensive to keep together next year.

Aside from the 2004 Pistons, what was the last team to win an NBA championship without a top-10 player?

We might have just dodged a major bullet.

I think you could make the case that Paul George is a top 10 player

Maybe.

But since the 1980's every title team was led by someone better than him except for maybe the 2004 Pistons.

If he's our best player it's highly unlikely we win a championship.

This is the cold, hard reality of the NBA.

The vast majority of championship teams are led by all-time great players like LeBron, MJ, Russell, Duncan, Kobe, Bird, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem etc.

So were those guys all time greats before they won a championship? Or did they win a championship, and we're then considered all-time greats?

Where does Wade land? Kawhi? Paul Pierce?

How about up and coming/current ringless stars like Giannis? Anthony Davis? Harden? Westbrook?

Nah, you can usually tell who the true blue-chip players are.

Harden and Westbrook are both very overrated. I've been saying that for years. Davis is great but plays for one of the most inept organizations in pro sports. I give him a pass, and I'd trade the farm for him. Giannis is so young it is hard to tell what he will become.

Pierce had KG, who was arguably a top-5 player at the time. I love PP, but he wouldn't have won without KG, who was the better player.

Wade had Shaq, LeBron, and, most importantly, David Stern.

And are you seriously gonna compare PG13 to Bird/Kareem/MJ etc? He isn't close to that caliber. Those guys CHANGED THE LEAGUE when they came in.

And apparently most of the NBA agrees about George, because a good chunk of the league could have beaten OKC's offer.

George is an all-star, but he's not an all-time player.

Don't get me wrong, I like him a lot. But I'll be very surprised if he's ever the best player on a championship team.

I wasn't comparing PG to MJ, etc. I just don't buy the whole "you need an all time great to win a ring" narrative. PG may not be in the strata of Bird/Magic in terms of changing the league, but IMO, if he won a ring here, he'd then be considered to be an all-time great. It's not crazy to think he could have an MVP-type impact IMO, especially given how he's performed in the past.

I bring up Pierce because neither Pierce nor KG could've won it without the other. And I don't think Pierce was considered an all-timer before he won a ring. An all-star, yes, but not, all-time. Shaq was clearly past his prime in Miami, and Duncan was clearly past his prime when he won his last ring. Wade and Kawhi both carried those teams. Were they considered all-time greats at the time? Or did their reputation suddenly boom after that first ring?

One of my fave examples is TMac. I really think if TMac stayed healthy, and he and Kobe had been switched (aka TMac played with Shaq), I really think the narrative would've been different on his career. Currently, I don't think he's considered as one of the all-time greats, but if he played next to Shaq and won 3 rings, I think he would've been.

I agree with most of what you're saying.

History does judge players much differently based on their championship pedigree, and some guys are unfairly undervalued (or overvalued).

I think in some ways George is UNDERVALUED by C's fans. I think we don't get to see how great he is on a daily basis - that combined with his playoff disappointment on a bad team reminds me a LOT of Pierce ten or fifteen years ago.

He'd make a fine #2 IMO on the right team. And that is a big compliment.

I just don't think we have the pieces in place to accommodate that. Especially considering how good the Warriors are right now.

Paul George = Mr. UNclutch!!!

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nba/pacers/2017/04/17/how-clutch-paul-george/100570384/

"According to a tweet from ESPN's Tim MacMahon, Indiana Pacers star Paul George is an NBA-worst 0-for-15 on potential go-ahead shots in the final 20 seconds of games since he entered the league."

[colincb]

Just up from the BG

For much of the past year, the Celtics had been making a push toward acquiring Pacers forward Paul George. As recently as Friday, Boston still believed it was in the mix to acquire the All-Star.

But on Friday night, the Pacers sent George to the Oklahoma City Thunder in exchange for guard Victor Oladipo and forward Domantas Sabonis in a deal that sent shockwaves through the NBA for the seemingly paltry return Indiana received.

According to a league source, the Celtics had made several attempts to acquire George this season, including one offer prior to the February trade deadline that could have come at a massive cost.

The Celtics at that time offered a package centered on the 2017 first-round pick they were to receive from the Nets, as well as three other future first-round choices, a source said. That Nets pick, of course, ultimately turned into the No. 1 overall selection.

Even though George was slated to become a free agent after next season, it was believed that Boston’s reasoning at the time was that it would essentially get two years of George in the playoffs, and that he would become ingrained in the winning culture and hopefully re-sign.

But the deadline came and went with no deal, and the talks were resuscitated prior to the NBA Draft. At that time, a source said, Boston offered the Pacers three starters and two first-round picks, although the offer did not include the pick Boston will receive from the Nets next year, or the future first-round pick they received when they sent the top pick this year to the 76ers.

Eventually, a league source said, that deal evolved to become three future first-round picks and two Celtics starters. But it turned out that was not enough, either. In the end, George ended up with Oklahoma City, and the Celtics were left to turn their focus toward their pursuit of the free agent forward, Gordon Hayward.

Tough to believe.

Tough to believe indeed. Then again, it's also tough to believe that PG would be traded for Dipo and Sabonis and zero (!!!!) picks!

That's even tougher to believe. I would have taken the Laker deal or a KLove swap or the BOS deal before I would have taken the Oladipo deal.

[colincb]

Just saw this " There was a belief by the Cavaliers that Indiana president of basketball operations Kevin Pritchard, when it came down to pulling the trigger on a George deal, felt more comfortable shipping him to a Western Conference team rather than an East rival -- the Celtics and Cleveland both made countless inquiries -- eliminating a potential roadblock as the Pacers begin a rebuild."  Interesting...

David Aldridge said the same thing based on what he knew about the reported offers. So why not take the Lakers deal then?

[CelticsElite]

[max215]

Windhorst on ESPN: "most people in the NBA do not view Oladipo's contract as a good deal."

[max215]

NBA exec on Paul George deal: "World's smartest salary dump by OKC."

https://twitter.com/espn_macmahon/status/880998113196068864

[liam]

Just saw this " There was a belief by the Cavaliers that Indiana president of basketball operations Kevin Pritchard, when it came down to pulling the trigger on a George deal, felt more comfortable shipping him to a Western Conference team rather than an East rival -- the Celtics and Cleveland both made countless inquiries -- eliminating a potential roadblock as the Pacers begin a rebuild."  Interesting...

David Aldridge said the same thing based on what he knew about the reported offers. So why not take the Lakers deal then?

What was the Laker's deal and was it still on the table?

[colincb]

Windhorst on ESPN: "most people in the NBA do not view Oladipo's contract as a good deal."

This was a salary dump for OKC. They probably would have had to throw more in than Sabonis to get rid of Oladipo's contract elsewhere.

[max215]

Windhorst on ESPN: "most people in the NBA do not view Oladipo's contract as a good deal."

This was a salary dump for OKC. They probably would have had to throw more in than Sabonis to get rid of Oladipo's contract elsewhere.

Yup. Look at the tweet I posted right after that.