Fultz is overrated

[Tr1boy]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

Fultz is skilled offensively... But we cant declare him better to be McCollum just yet...and on par to Kyrie/Harden

[Surferdad]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

Fultz is skilled offensively... But we cant declare him better to be McCollum just yet...and on par to Kyrie/Harden

All the work that Boris Badenov put into his post, and you misread the last sentence, geez.

He said "will be" not "is".  C'mon.

[Tr1boy]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

Realistic only in your opinion when most people are comparing him to DLillard and Kyrie with better D at least, also with you saying the top 5 are close to him when most people agree that he's head and shoulders above the rest save Ball if his dad ever shuts up...geez...

how is this believable ...  with the way he played defense last season?

his D wasn't bad though. It's not perfect, but it's not awful either.

How many Washington games have you actually watched in full? They primarily played a zone under coach Romar.
You're over criticising him or seriously 'nit picking'.
Length, IQ, athlete, size, determination= the ingredients to a good defender. He has all those things.

He's 18 years old and hasn't really ever been taught how to defend. Stevens has made all these players great defenders. Look what he's turned KO, Rozier, Brown into as defenders.
We have one of the greatest player development coaches in the NBA who taught young guys like Fultz how to play defense and think about the game differently. It's how he got his Butler teams to the final four twice in a row.

Yes he's very raw, but he is obviously a hard worker with the right attitude.
He also has the physical tools to be an above average defender.
Remember he's 18 and raw. He's over a year younger than Josh Jackson. At 18 years old his coach Romar at Washington obviously didn't give a S*&$^ about defense, and didn't really care much about defense.

  Just remember that he won't get playing time for Brad Stevens if he's a defensive liability. He basically has no choice but to spend his entire rookie season learning how to defend in the NBA. It will be a shock/crash course but you have to consider his work ethic/IQ when looking at potential. Brown was certainly not a great defender in college or at the start of the year. But he's worked his ass off and it's gotten him time on the court in some of our most important games and he's defended like an NBA veteran.

Can't really see why he can't become a PG version of Kawahi Leonard. He has the freakish size/length for the position. The mid range game, the outside game, and he rebounds very very well for his position.

Look at his physical tools vs most NBA point guards and wings and even small forwards.
His wingspan is bigger than Paul George's wingspan lol- even slightly bigger than Dwayne Wade who is known as one of the longest shooting guards in NBA history.

Think about the point guards in the NBA finals right now. Surely you could see him being a better defender than Kyrie or Steph? And if he's scoring 25ppg in his prime per game while playing better D than those two mediocre defenders, we have a superstar on our hands.

Here's a good article for you:
Why Markelle Fultz isn’t a defensive liability

http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/5/15736110/why-markelle-fultz-isnt-a-defensive-liability-boston-celtics-nba-draft

What is Josh Jacksons excuse on the defensive end?

Im not harping/concerned about Fultz because he doesnt know some of the pro type defensive plays , settings. Being lost on the court or getting fooled by backdoor plays...cbs can teach him these things

Its just lack of consistent effort on the defensive end that was witnessed last season..  can CBS teach him effort on the defensive end? Did cbs have to teach Crowder defensive effort ?

Maybe Fultz is not a leader on the defensive end. And on a good team, he will emulate the vets and play with better defensive effort....time will tell

[footey]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

Realistic only in your opinion when most people are comparing him to DLillard and Kyrie with better D at least, also with you saying the top 5 are close to him when most people agree that he's head and shoulders above the rest save Ball if his dad ever shuts up...geez...

how is this believable ...  with the way he played defense last season?

his D wasn't bad though. It's not perfect, but it's not awful either.

How many Washington games have you actually watched in full? They primarily played a zone under coach Romar.
You're over criticising him or seriously 'nit picking'.
Length, IQ, athlete, size, determination= the ingredients to a good defender. He has all those things.

He's 18 years old and hasn't really ever been taught how to defend. Stevens has made all these players great defenders. Look what he's turned KO, Rozier, Brown into as defenders.
We have one of the greatest player development coaches in the NBA who taught young guys like Fultz how to play defense and think about the game differently. It's how he got his Butler teams to the final four twice in a row.

Yes he's very raw, but he is obviously a hard worker with the right attitude.
He also has the physical tools to be an above average defender.
Remember he's 18 and raw. He's over a year younger than Josh Jackson. At 18 years old his coach Romar at Washington obviously didn't give a S*&$^ about defense, and didn't really care much about defense.

  Just remember that he won't get playing time for Brad Stevens if he's a defensive liability. He basically has no choice but to spend his entire rookie season learning how to defend in the NBA. It will be a shock/crash course but you have to consider his work ethic/IQ when looking at potential. Brown was certainly not a great defender in college or at the start of the year. But he's worked his ass off and it's gotten him time on the court in some of our most important games and he's defended like an NBA veteran.

Can't really see why he can't become a PG version of Kawahi Leonard. He has the freakish size/length for the position. The mid range game, the outside game, and he rebounds very very well for his position.

Look at his physical tools vs most NBA point guards and wings and even small forwards.
His wingspan is bigger than Paul George's wingspan lol- even slightly bigger than Dwayne Wade who is known as one of the longest shooting guards in NBA history.

Think about the point guards in the NBA finals right now. Surely you could see him being a better defender than Kyrie or Steph? And if he's scoring 25ppg in his prime per game while playing better D than those two mediocre defenders, we have a superstar on our hands.

Here's a good article for you:
Why Markelle Fultz isn’t a defensive liability

http://www.celticsblog.com/2017/6/5/15736110/why-markelle-fultz-isnt-a-defensive-liability-boston-celtics-nba-draft

What is Josh Jacksons excuse on the defensive end?

Im not harping/concerned about Fultz because he doesnt know some of the pro type defensive plays , settings. Being lost on the court or getting fooled by backdoor plays...cbs can teach him these things

Its just lack of consistent effort on the defensive end that was witnessed last season..  can CBS teach him effort on the defensive end? Did cbs have to teach Crowder defensive effort ?

Maybe Fultz is not a leader on the defensive end. And on a good team, he will emulate the vets and play with better defensive effort....time will tell

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen both had reputations of inconsistent defensive effort until KG showed up. Happens a lot.

[Celtics4ever]

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen both had reputations of inconsistent defensive effort until KG showed up. Happens a lot.

Do we have a KG who demands defensive excellence on our roster?   

I think not.   

We have guys who individually solid defenders but not a leader among them in terms of hiding team mates accountable.

[Csfan1984]

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen both had reputations of inconsistent defensive effort until KG showed up. Happens a lot.

Do we have a KG who demands defensive excellence on our roster?   

I think not.   

We have guys who individually solid defenders but not a leader among them in terms of hiding team mates accountable.

Smart and AB demand defense. Horford too.

but even KG only got Ray to play D one year.

[snively]

Paul Pierce and Ray Allen both had reputations of inconsistent defensive effort until KG showed up. Happens a lot.

Do we have a KG who demands defensive excellence on our roster?   

I think not.   

We have guys who individually solid defenders but not a leader among them in terms of hiding team mates accountable.

Smart and AB demand defense. Horford too.

but even KG only got Ray to play D one year.

Our problem is that IT is the leader of the team and he's a pretty terrible defender even when he gives max effort. Makes it much harder to great a defensive culture.

Especially if IT is the main guy Fultz will be gunning for in the rotation - how are you going to tell Fultz he needs to get better defensively when the guy in front of him is one of the worst defensive players in the league?

[LilRip]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

Fultz is skilled offensively... But we cant declare him better to be McCollum just yet...and on par to Kyrie/Harden

By this logic, Marcus Smart is more skilled offensively than Fultz because "Fultz has not even stepped into the NBA"  cmon triboy

Also, if rookie Fultz is able to produce at a level of a near-prime CJ McCollum, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think we should be pleased, actually. Because usually, guys improve after their rookie year.

[Boris Badenov]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

I simply cannot believe you need me to explain this to you.

We can either compare Fultz as an 18 year old college player to McCollum as an 18 year old college player, or Fultz as a 25 year old NBA player to McCollum as a 25 year old NBA player. Which is more grounded in reality?

(I'll give you a hint: it's the one that doesn't require a time machine.)

[Tr1boy]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

Fultz is skilled offensively... But we cant declare him better to be McCollum just yet...and on par to Kyrie/Harden

By this logic, Marcus Smart is more skilled offensively than Fultz because "Fultz has not even stepped into the NBA"  cmon triboy

Also, if rookie Fultz is able to produce at a level of a near-prime CJ McCollum, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think we should be pleased, actually. Because usually, guys improve after their rookie year.

Did Marcus Smart avg 23 ppg last season?

No its not a bad thing at all... Thats why iam saying it is a realistic expectation. Does he have the tools to be better? Yes. But iam not jumping the gun .... + unless he shows that he can play better D

[Celtics4ever]

Smart scored 16.6 PPG in college

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marcus-smart-1.html


Hardly a predictor of NBA success, eh?  He scored 18 PPG his sophomore year.  Still I would imagine it is often better to take a guy who can score over one who can't in terms of drafting.

[Celtics18]

Since I started this thread, I have continued my Fultz research.  I watched a full game and a half of action, I read more, saw videos of him dunking, and the truth is I'm higher on him than I was when I started this thread.  He's really smooth, he's really versatile, he moves better and looks more athletic than I first gave him credit for.

All that said, I still hope Danny is at least exploring trade options for the number one pick.  If there are rival GMs out there who are as gaga over Fultz as most Celtics fans are, we could get quite the haul back.  If, for example, the Bulls were willing to trade Jimmy Butler for the rights to Fultz, I would be very interested.

As good as Fultz is, I just don't see him turning into a once-in-a-generation type talent.  It's exciting to have the number one pick.  I certainly hope Danny is keeping multiple options open for how to build the next Celtics contender (sooner, rather than later).

[Csfan1984]

Since I started this thread, I have continued my Fultz research.  I watched a full game and a half of action, I read more, saw videos of him dunking, and the truth is I'm higher on him than I was when I started this thread.  He's really smooth, he's really versatile, he moves better and looks more athletic than I first gave him credit for.

All that said, I still hope Danny is at least exploring trade options for the number one pick.  If there are rival GMs out there who are as gaga over Fultz as most Celtics fans are, we could get quite the haul back.  If, for example, the Bulls were willing to trade Jimmy Butler for the rights to Fultz, I would be very interested.

As good as Fultz is, I just don't see him turning into a once-in-a-generation type talent.  It's exciting to have the number one pick.  I certainly hope Danny is keeping multiple options open for how to build the next Celtics contender (sooner, rather than later).

Generational talent is over blown. You still need a team to win. I see him as a potentially 6'4 CP3 that isnt LeBron, Shaq, Duncan or Davis but that is still a superstar level player. We dont have any elite talent so beggars can't be choosers.

[LilRip]

My realistic expectation/ceiling of Fultz is McCollum...

2016/2017 highlights of McCollum below...   lots of similarities imo.  From physical tools, skillset... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bybxsHWV40

McCollum is closer to his floor than ceiling.  You're disregarding Fultz's elite ball-handling and defensive potential (of which CJ has none).  Would you like him more if he was slotted for the 2nd round?

I think he doesn't like players like Fultz, that's all

Because I compare Fultz to McCollum (realistic ceiling imo) vs comparing him to Kyrie or Harden.... this means i don't like Fultz??

sorry i will compare Fultz to Kobe next time...geez

I don't think your comparison is nuts and you can definitely see the similarities offensively (change of speed, mid-range game, etc.).

Keep in mind however that you're looking at a 25-year-old McCollum and an 18-year-old Fultz.

If you compare them as freshmen you can see the differences emerge.

1. Their numbers are on face value not too different, but when you look at blocks (1.2 vs. 0.2) you see evidence of Fultz's advantage in length and reach.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cj-mccollum-1.html#site_menu_link
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/markelle-fultz-1.html

2. you need to keep in mind that Fultz is putting up those numbers in a top conference while McCollum is doing it in the Patriot league, which is worlds different. McCollum's freshman numbers in the Pac-12 would likely have been significantly worse.

3. If you want to see the level of competition and a view of what younger McCollum was like, see this video rather than the one you posted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQkmaFY7WUs&t=16s. Even there, that's CJ's junior year (age 20) vs. Fultz at 18.

4. You notice two things there. One, the guys CJ is playing against are just not on the same level at all. And two, even at age 20 against inferior competition, McCollum had significantly more trouble getting his shot off, and it was a slower release. You could imagine Fultz absolutely destroying that level of competition on a nightly basis. Fultz gets so much separation at age 18, against superior competition, compared to what CJ was doing at age 20 against a bunch of guys with inferior athletic skill.

5. You also see, as others have noted, that McCollum is a nearly pure SG while Fultz is a PG with SG skills and size. CJ just does not have the same skills in terms of finding others and creating offense for others. Fultz is bigger, faster, and plays more like a PG.

I think if you put this all together, there are many objective criteria on which Fultz has a clear advantage. You've noted a similarity in scoring style that makes sense to me, but as you project out and think of what a 25-year-old Fultz will look like compared to that video of McCollum at age 25, there are many, many reasons to believe Fultz will be the superior player.

Why not discuss about what mccollum is doing at the nba level today then dissect his past, like he is not in the nba still??  Or on his way to the nba?

Fultz has not even stepped into the nba... Is he averaging 23 ppg already? Or should be averaging 29 ppg because of theories xyz, his 6'10 wingspan?

Fultz is skilled offensively... But we cant declare him better to be McCollum just yet...and on par to Kyrie/Harden

By this logic, Marcus Smart is more skilled offensively than Fultz because "Fultz has not even stepped into the NBA"  cmon triboy

Also, if rookie Fultz is able to produce at a level of a near-prime CJ McCollum, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think we should be pleased, actually. Because usually, guys improve after their rookie year.

Did Marcus Smart avg 23 ppg last season?

No its not a bad thing at all... Thats why iam saying it is a realistic expectation. Does he have the tools to be better? Yes. But iam not jumping the gun .... + unless he shows that he can play better D

I make that extreme statement to catch your attention and point out the absurdity of your logic. You claimed Fultz realistic ceiling is McCollum at which Boris made a terrific breakdown of why Fultz is better than McCollum was at around the same age. And yet, you defend your stance by saying:
1) rookie Fultz should be compared instead to McCollum in his current prime - can you explain why you think that would be the proper methodology?
2) such a comparison or declaration can't even be valid because "Fultz hasn't played an NBA minute" - why does this matter when making a projection? Particularly when you have a historical comparison of how McCollum performed anyway. I bring up Marcus Smart because imo, it's ridiculous to use "NBA experience" as some sort of qualifier when making educated guesses or projections. 

When you say things like Fultz's ceiling is McCollum, and then state in your most recent post that in his rookie year, your realistic expectation is that he can be just as good as prime McCollum, it doesn't add up. I mean, why would Fultz's ceiling be McCollum if on year one, you think it's realistic that he performs just as good as McCollum in his prime?? Unless:

1. You think Fultz will peak in his rookie year and then not get better or even deteriorate.
2. When you talk about "ceiling", you really meant ceiling in his rookie year only. And not his career or what he could be 3-5 years from now.

[Celtics18]

Since I started this thread, I have continued my Fultz research.  I watched a full game and a half of action, I read more, saw videos of him dunking, and the truth is I'm higher on him than I was when I started this thread.  He's really smooth, he's really versatile, he moves better and looks more athletic than I first gave him credit for.

All that said, I still hope Danny is at least exploring trade options for the number one pick.  If there are rival GMs out there who are as gaga over Fultz as most Celtics fans are, we could get quite the haul back.  If, for example, the Bulls were willing to trade Jimmy Butler for the rights to Fultz, I would be very interested.

As good as Fultz is, I just don't see him turning into a once-in-a-generation type talent.  It's exciting to have the number one pick.  I certainly hope Danny is keeping multiple options open for how to build the next Celtics contender (sooner, rather than later).

Generational talent is over blown. You still need a team to win. I see him as a potentially 6'4 CP3 that isnt LeBron, Shaq, Duncan or Davis but that is still a superstar level player. We dont have any elite talent so beggars can't be choosers.

We do have Thomas and Horford who are certainly in the elite realm.  I think that expecting Markelle Fultz to be significantly better than Isaiah Thomas is unrealistic.