Fultz is overrated

[Casperian]

Not more than any other consensus #1 pick in the history of the league, especially by fans of the team that holds the rights to said pick.

It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

[Celtics18]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

[mctyson]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

It is pretty easy to watch video and see that Fultz was a poor defender at Washington.  When Stevens had Fultz in the film room critiquing his game, you can be sure Stevens pointed out his lack of effort and fundamentals.

yes... a few examples below

- At 1:25 , gets blocked , doesn't chase Ball with urgency to prevent layup.... poor effort
- at 3:00,  weak PNR defense by Fultz ...  either its lack of intensity or slow to react

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3QG5FNueo&t=130s

Who do you want with the #1 pick?
No shame if it isn't Fultz just wondering who you think is a better option?

trade the pick for

PG13 (if he agrees to sign an extension)

or another top 5 2017 pick and young rising talent. 
For example

#5 and Hield   
#3 and Saric

for those that think Saric is bum...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXtZIL15Fcc

Trading the #1 pick is a rarity for a reason, but it is not a crazy idea.  Prior to the lottery I was all aboard the Josh Jackson train.  I think with players like him (and Jaylen), so long as they keep their head on straight and work hard, are at worst going to be solid NBA rotation guys strictly because of their athleticism and size.  So if you had told me - prior to the Cs getting #1 - that they would walk away from the draft with Josh Jackson AND Dario Saric, I would have been very happy.

But...

Having the #1 pick does change the game.  I like Jackson and Fox, they could be the best players in this draft, but right now no one is projecting that.  Almost everyone is projecting Fultz as that guy.  I tend to believe in the wisdom of markets, and when the market of NBA talent evaluation almost universally says "Yep, it's Fultz" I don't think that's a trend that should be bucked.

[mctyson]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

[Celtics18]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

[Dchuck]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

Without Kyrie...Cavs get swept by the Warriors and we take them to at least 6.  Hes easily one of the best PGs in the league.  He's also hands down a player u can build around.  Remember, in the league today u need some combination of three studs.  He is certainly worthy of that. 

As far as finding our "Lebron James", good luck!  Players like him dont come around too often.

For those that say trade the pick, who could we possibly get back in return that would make us legit contenders in the forseeable future?  PG13?  Uh, no!  Butler?  Nope!  AD? Maybe.  So unless the Brow is wearing green next year, we need to take Fultz.  Period!

[clevelandceltic]

Hahahaha. Trade for 3 or 5 and that group of players? Did you listen to Wyc at all when he said he would trade it for a mega star (those are my words right now) type of player? He isnt trading it for Buddy or Saric no matter how good of a player you think they are.

Yes Cs fans we traded down to 5 to take a player we passed on last year. Come on

[hpantazo]

Serious question, has any team in NBA history ever traded the #1 pick on or before draft day? I know it has happened after draft day, but I can't recall anyone trading the #1 pick before the draft or on draft day.

[Celtics18]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

Without Kyrie...Cavs get swept by the Warriors and we take them to at least 6.  Hes easily one of the best PGs in the league.  He's also hands down a player u can build around.  Remember, in the league today u need some combination of three studs.  He is certainly worthy of that. 

As far as finding our "Lebron James", good luck!  Players like him dont come around too often.

For those that say trade the pick, who could we possibly get back in return that would make us legit contenders in the forseeable future?  PG13?  Uh, no!  Butler?  Nope!  AD? Maybe.  So unless the Brow is wearing green next year, we need to take Fultz.  Period!

Kyrie is definitely one of the top point guards in the league, easily in the top seven.  I'd say he's right around on par with our own Isaiah Thomas.  If that is Fultz's ceiling that would be great, maybe we could do better, though, is all I'm saying.

[hpantazo]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

Without Kyrie...Cavs get swept by the Warriors and we take them to at least 6.  Hes easily one of the best PGs in the league.  He's also hands down a player u can build around.  Remember, in the league today u need some combination of three studs.  He is certainly worthy of that. 

As far as finding our "Lebron James", good luck!  Players like him dont come around too often.

For those that say trade the pick, who could we possibly get back in return that would make us legit contenders in the forseeable future?  PG13?  Uh, no!  Butler?  Nope!  AD? Maybe.  So unless the Brow is wearing green next year, we need to take Fultz.  Period!

Kyrie is definitely one of the top point guards in the league, easily in the top seven.  I'd say he's right around on par with our own Isaiah Thomas.  If that is Fultz's ceiling that would be great, maybe we could do better, though, is all I'm saying.

If you add Kyrie to our current Celtics team, they would be legit contenders. A player of that scoring and ball handling ability would take sooooo much pressure off IT and Horford, and make the game easier for everyone. Smart and Brown would also flourish from having another elite scorer and playmaker on the floor.  Add A Kyrie/Fultz PLUS Hayward, and a center like Zizic, and we are in amazing shape.

[Celtics18]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

Without Kyrie...Cavs get swept by the Warriors and we take them to at least 6.  Hes easily one of the best PGs in the league.  He's also hands down a player u can build around.  Remember, in the league today u need some combination of three studs.  He is certainly worthy of that. 

As far as finding our "Lebron James", good luck!  Players like him dont come around too often.

For those that say trade the pick, who could we possibly get back in return that would make us legit contenders in the forseeable future?  PG13?  Uh, no!  Butler?  Nope!  AD? Maybe.  So unless the Brow is wearing green next year, we need to take Fultz.  Period!

Kyrie is definitely one of the top point guards in the league, easily in the top seven.  I'd say he's right around on par with our own Isaiah Thomas.  If that is Fultz's ceiling that would be great, maybe we could do better, though, is all I'm saying.

If you add Kyrie to our current Celtics team, they would be legit contenders. A player of that scoring and ball handling ability would take sooooo much pressure off IT and Horford, and make the game easier for everyone. Smart and Brown would also flourish from having another elite scorer and playmaker on the floor.  Add A Kyrie/Fultz PLUS Hayward, and a center like Zizic, and we are in amazing shape.

I'm not convinced that Markelle Fultz would make a large immediate impact on our Celtics.  I don't think he and Isaiah would be a good fit together--certainly not right away.  Sure, you can play Fultz off the ball some, but you are giving up a lot defensively with that backcourt.

[hpantazo]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.

Kyrie Irving has had a very solid playoffs overall as a second banana to Lebron James.  "Carrying the Cavs," though?  That's a bit of an exagerration, I'd say.

Did you watch what Kyrie did to the Celtics in Game 4?  Without his performance Boston very well might have come back 2-2.

Kyrie has been phenomenal these past 2 playoffs, and has completely validated being the #1 overall pick.  If you can project Fultz to being that kind of special offensive talent, he is a no-brainer at #1.

I actually think the Kyrie Irving comparison is a good reason to at least consider trading the number one pick as opposed to selecting Fultz.  Kyrie Irving is a very, very good basketball player, but he's not a great one--not the kind of guy who single handedly changes the fate of your franchise like Lebron James or Kevin Durant or Tim Duncan.

If we get our "Kyrie Irving" in this year's draft, we still have to find our "Lebron James."  We won't be able to trade the pick for that kind of difference maker, but we may be able to trade for someone who can help a good team get better immediately and/or maximize our chances for the future by getting multiple top prospects.

In the end, Danny will most likely just take Fultz with the number one, but I do think it's very worth considering other options.

Without Kyrie...Cavs get swept by the Warriors and we take them to at least 6.  Hes easily one of the best PGs in the league.  He's also hands down a player u can build around.  Remember, in the league today u need some combination of three studs.  He is certainly worthy of that. 

As far as finding our "Lebron James", good luck!  Players like him dont come around too often.

For those that say trade the pick, who could we possibly get back in return that would make us legit contenders in the forseeable future?  PG13?  Uh, no!  Butler?  Nope!  AD? Maybe.  So unless the Brow is wearing green next year, we need to take Fultz.  Period!

Kyrie is definitely one of the top point guards in the league, easily in the top seven.  I'd say he's right around on par with our own Isaiah Thomas.  If that is Fultz's ceiling that would be great, maybe we could do better, though, is all I'm saying.

If you add Kyrie to our current Celtics team, they would be legit contenders. A player of that scoring and ball handling ability would take sooooo much pressure off IT and Horford, and make the game easier for everyone. Smart and Brown would also flourish from having another elite scorer and playmaker on the floor.  Add A Kyrie/Fultz PLUS Hayward, and a center like Zizic, and we are in amazing shape.

I'm not convinced that Markelle Fultz would make a large immediate impact on our Celtics.  I don't think he and Isaiah would be a good fit together--certainly not right away.  Sure, you can play Fultz off the ball some, but you are giving up a lot defensively with that backcourt.

Fultz has the size and all the physical tools to be a very good defender at either guard position. He's not IT defensively.

[KGs Knee]

Serious question, has any team in NBA history ever traded the #1 pick on or before draft day? I know it has happened after draft day, but I can't recall anyone trading the #1 pick before the draft or on draft day.

Chris Webber???

[hpantazo]

Serious question, has any team in NBA history ever traded the #1 pick on or before draft day? I know it has happened after draft day, but I can't recall anyone trading the #1 pick before the draft or on draft day.

Chris Webber???

That's right! Thanks for the info, it pointed me in the right direction and to this article:

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/pat-williams-trading-no-1-pick-chris-webber-penny-hardaway-072214

[Dino Pitino]

Serious question, has any team in NBA history ever traded the #1 pick on or before draft day? I know it has happened after draft day, but I can't recall anyone trading the #1 pick before the draft or on draft day.

http://www.nba.com/history/season/19801981.html

The biggest news of the season came a full four months before the season started. On June 9, 1980, Red Auerbach pulled off the type of trade that had earned him a reputation for thievery in his more than three decades in the league. Auerbach dealt the first and 13th picks in the 1980 NBA Draft to Golden State for the third pick in the 1980 Draft and four-year veteran center Robert Parish. The Warriors selected Purdue center Joe Barry Carroll with the first pick and tabbed Mississippi forward Rickey Brown 13th. The Celtics took forward Kevin McHale of Minnesota, and thus added Parish and McHale to a frontcourt that already featured Larry Bird and Cedric Maxwell. In one trade, Auerbach had acquired a frontcourt for the next decade.

Today there probably would be a number of fans against that deal claiming that Joe Barry Carroll is a transformational, transcendent, generational talent and it's foolish to trade down, etc.