Fultz is overrated

[droopdog7]

Obviously whether he is overrated depends on what the expectations are in the first place.  Fultz is not a generational prospect like Lebron (duh) or Duncan.  He may not even be a prospect on the level of Anthony Davis.  But these guys (minus Lebron) are at least within reach. 

He could be as good as Wall, Rose, Kyrie, and other guards at number #1.  Fultz is different that each of these stars; does some things worse, some things better.  For instance, Fultz is not as explosive as any of those three.  But he makes up for it in others ways; being shifty, change of pace, etc.  Fultz is also considerably bigger than Kyrie and longer than Rose and Wall.  He can also shoot better than Wall and Rose at the same stage. 

Is Fultz a guaranteed super duper star?  Not sure I would go that far.  But he might be.  And at worse, we're probably talking Damian Lillard.  Highest floor and highest ceiling.  What else can we ask for.

I think he has a chance to be a LeBron or Duncan type of guy...let's wait and see

I don't.  Lebron is arguably the greatest talent of all time.  Fultz is not that kind of prospect but no one has ever been.  Duncan is a big so hard to compare.  But he was a hall of fame prospect that delivered and then some.

Again we'll have to wait and see...I love the kid, I think he'll be a step above Kyrie and Wall in their rookie years

I think we can agree that Fultz is not THAT kind of prospect.  Could be reach that level?  Sure, ANYTHING is possible.  But I sure as heck wouldn't bet on it.

[mqtcelticsfan]

Obviously whether he is overrated depends on what the expectations are in the first place.  Fultz is not a generational prospect like Lebron (duh) or Duncan.  He may not even be a prospect on the level of Anthony Davis.  But these guys (minus Lebron) are at least within reach. 

He could be as good as Wall, Rose, Kyrie, and other guards at number #1.  Fultz is different that each of these stars; does some things worse, some things better.  For instance, Fultz is not as explosive as any of those three.  But he makes up for it in others ways; being shifty, change of pace, etc.  Fultz is also considerably bigger than Kyrie and longer than Rose and Wall.  He can also shoot better than Wall and Rose at the same stage. 

Is Fultz a guaranteed super duper star?  Not sure I would go that far.  But he might be.  And at worse, we're probably talking Damian Lillard.  Highest floor and highest ceiling.  What else can we ask for.

I think he has a chance to be a LeBron or Duncan type of guy...let's wait and see

I don't.  Lebron is arguably the greatest talent of all time.  Fultz is not that kind of prospect but no one has ever been.  Duncan is a big so hard to compare.  But he was a hall of fame prospect that delivered and then some.

Again we'll have to wait and see...I love the kid, I think he'll be a step above Kyrie and Wall in their rookie years

I think we can agree that Fultz is not THAT kind of prospect.  Could be reach that level?  Sure, ANYTHING is possible.  But I sure as heck wouldn't bet on it.

He meant a step above rookie Kyrie/Wall which isn't exactly absurd. I think that if he's a Celtic his numbers will definitely be below their rookie years due to his role, but that it's not crazy to think he'd be at the level they played at as rookies. 

[footey]

The good/difficulty about the Celtics situation and having the #1 pick

Is that the team/coaching staff are spoiled....  CBS is already used to guys who plays defense like Smart, Crowder... even IT4 effort ....  anything less ... maybe hard to tolerate

It won't easy for any rookies to meet this expectation.... Brown was able to

Fultz struggled to play strong/consistent D at the collegiate level...what are the chances he will be able to put it all together by game 1 or game 10 etc?

At this point...I rather the team either do an advance rebuild or trade picks for vets.  If you draft Fultz... he should be given minutes to develop, iron out wrinkles

BUT this is not the mindset of this current team...it is not patient to develop young players

Not patient to develop young players? Disagree. Look at the development of Avery Bradley. And more recently Smart, Rozier and Jaylen Brown. They've been extremely patient. These guys get the benefit of a winning team oriented culture in which to develop their game. So will Fultz. He will flourish here.

And you criticize his defense because, let's face it, you can find nothing in his offense to criticize. 

[Dchuck]

I'm as enamored with speed and explosiveness as the next guy, HOWEVER, I like what Fultz has.  In fact I'd rather have what Fultz brings to the table than an explosive athlete who does not have control or instinct.  He's deceptively athletic, has great body control, pace, an assortment of offensive tools AND more importantly knows how AND when to use them.  His ability to keep defenders on their heels constantly guessing his next move is a skill not many players have, much less rookies.  He's capable of offense at all three levels, seems to get his shot off in tight quarters and absorbs contact at the rim really well.  It also looks like he picks and chooses (depending on the situation) when to use his full extent of his athleticism.

As mentioned before, Pierce and Harden come to mind in terms of their "lack of explosiveness".

I really hope Danny doesn't mess this one up.  His entire drafting career he has had to accept the "leftovers".  He finally has the chance to make the right decision, let's hope he does!

[BlackCeltic]

I realize this sentiment is straight blasphemy around here these days, but I just can't find myself jumping on the Fultz wagon.  There is something about his game that doesn't inspire me with great confidence that this guy is the next NBA superstar.  One thing is that he doesn't look super explosive to me.  He looks kinda slow and earth bound relative to top level NBA athletes.  I am also not a fan of his posture on the court.  He always seems to be somewhat awkwardly bent forward at the torso with his neck bending the opposite way.  From what I've seen, his greatest strength is his ability to make contested, off-the-dribble long jumpers.  I don't want a guy who makes his living off those kinds of shots.  They are much harder at the next level. 

He could certainly prove me wrong.  There are obviously some good reasons he is the consensus number 1 pick, but I have my reservations.

Arent you the same person who hated on Jaylen Brown from the moment he was drafted. I want Fultz even MORE now.

[mmmmm]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

[Somebody]

Obviously whether he is overrated depends on what the expectations are in the first place.  Fultz is not a generational prospect like Lebron (duh) or Duncan.  He may not even be a prospect on the level of Anthony Davis.  But these guys (minus Lebron) are at least within reach. 

He could be as good as Wall, Rose, Kyrie, and other guards at number #1.  Fultz is different that each of these stars; does some things worse, some things better.  For instance, Fultz is not as explosive as any of those three.  But he makes up for it in others ways; being shifty, change of pace, etc.  Fultz is also considerably bigger than Kyrie and longer than Rose and Wall.  He can also shoot better than Wall and Rose at the same stage. 

Is Fultz a guaranteed super duper star?  Not sure I would go that far.  But he might be.  And at worse, we're probably talking Damian Lillard.  Highest floor and highest ceiling.  What else can we ask for.

I think he has a chance to be a LeBron or Duncan type of guy...let's wait and see

I don't.  Lebron is arguably the greatest talent of all time.  Fultz is not that kind of prospect but no one has ever been.  Duncan is a big so hard to compare.  But he was a hall of fame prospect that delivered and then some.

Again we'll have to wait and see...I love the kid, I think he'll be a step above Kyrie and Wall in their rookie years

I think we can agree that Fultz is not THAT kind of prospect.  Could be reach that level?  Sure, ANYTHING is possible.  But I sure as heck wouldn't bet on it.

Sorry I'm betting on him being better than Kyrie and wall

[Monkhouse]

I cannot believe people are saying he is not explosive...

Ummm.. Excuse me? Fultz has the spin move down pat... Period. He uses hesitation crossover dribbles consistently without dribbling too much. When he goes fast, he seems to de-accelerate to throw off player's focus. He can tomahawk dunk one handed, and I have seen countless videos of him exploding off the catch, one dribble, while driving, and in the air.

This guy is an absolute monster offensively. Defensively, there are concerns. But his PER 40 seems to favor him favorably, and alot of scouts, analysts, and pundits seem pretty convinced he's going to do extremely well on that end. At least, not to an extent of being extremely sluggish, because it seems like his ability to craftily score without using too much energy seems to give him enough to play on both ends.

Of course, defense is something most players don't seem to get down pat, and CBS will no doubt assuredly fix any complicated issues.

Also I've seen some D'Angelo Russell comparisons.

Yeah, I just don't see it. Russell doesn't even have half the offensive arsenal of moves Fultz throws on his opponents on a consistent daily basis.

People seem to hedge so many concerns about Fultz pull up, and mid range game. And yet the NBA has become entrenched in pick and rolls, which Fultz excels at. Plus at the 40% 3pt, he can certainly prove that he can hit the 3, not to mention his 6'3-6'4 height and 6'10 wingspan seems to be perfect. He reminds me eerily of Lillard, and James Harden/Isaiah Thomas combined together.

Do I think he'll have problems and issues once he gets drafted? Of course. Every player is going to face criticism, but Fultz seems like a guy who has a good head on his shoulders, can score literally from anywhere, and seems like he could be a great two way player...

Josh Jackson, and Tatum seem like great prospects, but I'm actually really comfortable with Jaylen Brown, that to a point if we got Hayward, I could use Brown and Smart as the sixth man off the bench, and become a deadly one two combo. Or we could start Brown. He's definitely ahead of the learning curve.

[tazzmaniac]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

It is pretty easy to watch video and see that Fultz was a poor defender at Washington.  When Stevens had Fultz in the film room critiquing his game, you can be sure Stevens pointed out his lack of effort and fundamentals.

[droopdog7]

Obviously whether he is overrated depends on what the expectations are in the first place.  Fultz is not a generational prospect like Lebron (duh) or Duncan.  He may not even be a prospect on the level of Anthony Davis.  But these guys (minus Lebron) are at least within reach. 

He could be as good as Wall, Rose, Kyrie, and other guards at number #1.  Fultz is different that each of these stars; does some things worse, some things better.  For instance, Fultz is not as explosive as any of those three.  But he makes up for it in others ways; being shifty, change of pace, etc.  Fultz is also considerably bigger than Kyrie and longer than Rose and Wall.  He can also shoot better than Wall and Rose at the same stage. 

Is Fultz a guaranteed super duper star?  Not sure I would go that far.  But he might be.  And at worse, we're probably talking Damian Lillard.  Highest floor and highest ceiling.  What else can we ask for.

I think he has a chance to be a LeBron or Duncan type of guy...let's wait and see

I don't.  Lebron is arguably the greatest talent of all time.  Fultz is not that kind of prospect but no one has ever been.  Duncan is a big so hard to compare.  But he was a hall of fame prospect that delivered and then some.

Again we'll have to wait and see...I love the kid, I think he'll be a step above Kyrie and Wall in their rookie years

I think we can agree that Fultz is not THAT kind of prospect.  Could be reach that level?  Sure, ANYTHING is possible.  But I sure as heck wouldn't bet on it.

Sorry I'm betting on him being better than Kyrie and wall

I hope you're right.

[Tr1boy]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

It is pretty easy to watch video and see that Fultz was a poor defender at Washington.  When Stevens had Fultz in the film room critiquing his game, you can be sure Stevens pointed out his lack of effort and fundamentals.

yes... a few examples below

- At 1:25 , gets blocked , doesn't chase Ball with urgency to prevent layup.... poor effort
- at 3:00,  weak PNR defense by Fultz ...  either its lack of intensity or slow to react

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3QG5FNueo&t=130s

[Celtics18]

I realize this sentiment is straight blasphemy around here these days, but I just can't find myself jumping on the Fultz wagon.  There is something about his game that doesn't inspire me with great confidence that this guy is the next NBA superstar.  One thing is that he doesn't look super explosive to me.  He looks kinda slow and earth bound relative to top level NBA athletes.  I am also not a fan of his posture on the court.  He always seems to be somewhat awkwardly bent forward at the torso with his neck bending the opposite way.  From what I've seen, his greatest strength is his ability to make contested, off-the-dribble long jumpers.  I don't want a guy who makes his living off those kinds of shots.  They are much harder at the next level. 

He could certainly prove me wrong.  There are obviously some good reasons he is the consensus number 1 pick, but I have my reservations.

Arent you the same person who hated on Jaylen Brown from the moment he was drafted. I want Fultz even MORE now.

No, I am not that person.  I never hated on Jaylen Brown.  You've got me confused with someone else.

[chambers]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

It is pretty easy to watch video and see that Fultz was a poor defender at Washington.  When Stevens had Fultz in the film room critiquing his game, you can be sure Stevens pointed out his lack of effort and fundamentals.

yes... a few examples below

- At 1:25 , gets blocked , doesn't chase Ball with urgency to prevent layup.... poor effort
- at 3:00,  weak PNR defense by Fultz ...  either its lack of intensity or slow to react

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3QG5FNueo&t=130s

Who do you want with the #1 pick?
No shame if it isn't Fultz just wondering who you think is a better option?

[Tr1boy]

I doubt that Fultz by himself would outproduce Tatum and Hield

It doesn't work that way, though. DeMar Derozan and Serge Ibaka combine to outproduce Lebron, but you're not making that trade, are you?

like these extreme examples is not what I'm talking about

are you really going to use Lebron as an example??  Are you saying Fultz is at the same level/hemisphere ?

That's not what he was saying. He can pick any 2 moderately good players and they combined often outproduce an all-star. Lebron was just the most obvious example. You made a poor point, not him.

You go overboard in every thread. Like trying to claim there was little difference in Fultz and the 5th pick. Were that the case, he wouldn't be the consensus #1. Or nitpicking his flaws and downplaying his offensive genius. Hopefully you'll be on board in less than 2 weeks when he's a Celtic.

you know...you remind me...of those die hard Rondo fans ...where Rondo could do no wrong

except he played garbage defense and made everyone work harder.  Eventually he was traded and the team performed much better

Fultz skills on the offensive end at the collegiate level look great... but concerns about his overall defense is valid...if you choose to not acknowledge this....

well you will understand soon enough ... If drafted...when CBS won't be playing him much... unless his defense is better than James Youngs and on par with Roziers ....  he has quite the journey ahead

I love defense as much as the next guy, but I think you tend to underrate the importance of a true go-to scorer. You can find guys that can play defense all across the league, actual front line scorers are much harder to find and are essential for a title contender.

I suspect that triboy16's 'issue' has nothing to do with Markelle's defense.   Judging by how previous pre-draft run-ups have gone on this blog, it has far more to do with the simple fact that Fultz is not one of his binkies.

Harping on absurdly difficult things to measure such as defense and 'intangibles' (leadership/attitude/laziness/etc/etc) are typical when one can't really find fault within the clearly objective observables.

It is pretty easy to watch video and see that Fultz was a poor defender at Washington.  When Stevens had Fultz in the film room critiquing his game, you can be sure Stevens pointed out his lack of effort and fundamentals.

yes... a few examples below

- At 1:25 , gets blocked , doesn't chase Ball with urgency to prevent layup.... poor effort
- at 3:00,  weak PNR defense by Fultz ...  either its lack of intensity or slow to react

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3QG5FNueo&t=130s

Who do you want with the #1 pick?
No shame if it isn't Fultz just wondering who you think is a better option?

trade the pick for

PG13 (if he agrees to sign an extension)

or another top 5 2017 pick and young rising talent. 
For example

#5 and Hield   
#3 and Saric

for those that think Saric is bum...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXtZIL15Fcc

[mctyson]

What Kyrie is doing in these playoffs, carrying the Cavs, that's why we absolutely take Fultz.

This is a very good point and honestly is probably all the reason you need to take him #1.