Marcus Smart for Detroit #12

[gouki88]

Jaylen Brown, for example, would barely net you #10 in this draft despite the fact that he's had a pretty good year.

One of the most preposterous statements I've seen here, ever.

Find that hard to believe. How high of a pic do you think you could get for Jaylen Brown?

After he's already proven himself useful in three NBA playoff rounds his value has gone down? Nah. His value has gone up. He'd be drafted ahead of Ingram in a redraft of last year and he'd be in the mix again this year for #1 if he were eligible. Top 5 pick for him, easily.

I imagine he'd be in the same range, 3-8.  Probably right near Jackson and Tatum.  I'd take him 3rd because he can ball and he's cute to boot.

Let's not also forget that potential draft picks are ALWAYS overvalued near the draft, which affects how people see this comparison right now.

Outside of Fultz, there's literally no other player in this draft I'd rather have than Brown. Granted I'm also not high on the rest of this draft, specifically Ball and Jackson, but I'd take Brown second behind only Simmons last year, too. He's firmly surpassed Ingram as a prospect in my mind due primarily to the tremendous amount of growth that he showed from the start of the season to the end of the season.

I think Brown is a multiple-time two-way All-Star, and I think Fultz becomes a perennial All-Star.

Yeah, Fultz, in my mind, is the only prospect in this draft who I'd take ahead of Brown. Brown really showed great development and maturity throughout the season, regardless of a few rookie mistakes.

Regarding the OP, I wouldn't deal Smart for #12.

[Beat LA]

I think Detroit only would make this move for IT (the medical would be an issue, though). And I would strongly consider that before letting him go for nothing in 2018. Obviously, drafting Fultz is part of it.

Starting five: Smart/Bradley/Hayward/FA*/Horford.
Bench: Rozier/Fultz/J.Brown/Crowder/Zizic + nº 12 pick (Adebayo, Markkanen, Giles).

*A minimum FA to give a veteran presence, for example Nenê.

I think it makes sense. We have better defense, while Hayward and the developmen of Jaylen Brown + Fultz can somehoy replace IT's offense (obviously, with a different system).

I'd do that trade.  No way Smart gets you 12, though.  Absolutely not.

[Beat LA]

Jaylen Brown, for example, would barely net you #10 in this draft despite the fact that he's had a pretty good year.

One of the most preposterous statements I've seen here, ever.

Find that hard to believe. How high of a pic do you think you could get for Jaylen Brown?

After he's already proven himself useful in three NBA playoff rounds his value has gone down? Nah. His value has gone up. He'd be drafted ahead of Ingram in a redraft of last year and he'd be in the mix again this year for #1 if he were eligible. Top 5 pick for him, easily.

I imagine he'd be in the same range, 3-8.  Probably right near Jackson and Tatum.  I'd take him 3rd because he can ball and he's cute to boot.

Let's not also forget that potential draft picks are ALWAYS overvalued near the draft, which affects how people see this comparison right now.

Outside of Fultz, there's literally no other player in this draft I'd rather have than Brown. Granted I'm also not high on the rest of this draft, specifically Ball and Jackson, but I'd take Brown second behind only Simmons last year, too. He's firmly surpassed Ingram as a prospect in my mind due primarily to the tremendous amount of growth that he showed from the start of the season to the end of the season.

I think Brown is a multiple-time two-way All-Star, and I think Fultz becomes a perennial All-Star.

Really?  Not one?

[Darío SpanishFan]

If Yabusele refused to be stashed for an extra year, he'd make an intriguing sweetener here as well and we could get off his salary.

Then you are trading two recent 6 + 16 picks for 12. This has no sense.

It makes perfect sense: draft picks suffer from new car syndrome unless they have flashed previously unexpected potential. Their value plummets once they step on the court. (This may be less true for Yabusele since he hasn't actually played yet, but he was a massive reach at #16 to begin with.)

Jaylen Brown, for example, would barely net you #10 in this draft despite the fact that he's had a pretty good year. That's because a lot of the value of a draft pick is tied to the small possibility that the player you draft is a generational outlier and blows up completely beyond expectations. Once that lottery ticket value is gone and the player is just a player, they're just not as valuable.

OMG

By the way, only time will tell if Yabusele was "a massive reach" at 16. These reckless statements can be refuted as years go by. Way too early.

[obnoxiousmime]

If Yabusele refused to be stashed for an extra year, he'd make an intriguing sweetener here as well and we could get off his salary.

Then you are trading two recent 6 + 16 picks for 12. This has no sense.

It makes perfect sense: draft picks suffer from new car syndrome unless they have flashed previously unexpected potential. Their value plummets once they step on the court. (This may be less true for Yabusele since he hasn't actually played yet, but he was a massive reach at #16 to begin with.)

Jaylen Brown, for example, would barely net you #10 in this draft despite the fact that he's had a pretty good year. That's because a lot of the value of a draft pick is tied to the small possibility that the player you draft is a generational outlier and blows up completely beyond expectations. Once that lottery ticket value is gone and the player is just a player, they're just not as valuable.

OMG

By the way, only time will tell if Yabusele was "a massive reach" at 16. These reckless statements can be refuted as years go by. Way too early.

I think he's exaggerating and don't agree with his specific statements about Brown or Yabusele, however he is correct in that unless you are talking about a guy who is already an unquestioned star talent, GMs often fall in love with the MAYBE potential of the draft pick over the player already drafted.

I think in Brown's case he definitely has shown enough, especially later in the year, to be valued somewhere in the 3-8 range. However, he's not a sure thing by far, so it would be more of a case-by-case basis on how each GM views him.

The idea is that, once someone is in the league, if they really have that superstar potential they would have shown it very early. If they haven't, then you might as well draft someone that is an unknown but still has that small possibility of being a star.

Also, there's the fact that you would always prefer to get four years of someone on a cheap contract rather than 2 or 3.

[Jvalin]

If Yabu was a reach at #16 (by the way I believe he was), what about Rozier at #16? At the time pretty much everyone was thinking that he was a horrible pick. Two years later, Rozier looks pretty decent after all.

I wouldn't jump the gun on judging Yabu without first seeing him play a few NBA games. In fact, I would really like him to be part of our rotation next year.

[dreamgreen]

ROFL in the other thread it says for a "win now veteran". In the real world Smart is FAR away from a win now veteran, more like a decent bench player. Some of you guys crack me up with the delusion that goes on here bahahahaha.

[loco_91]

AB + Rozier for #12 would be more appealing. If we can't get value for Bradley then Smart for #12 might make sense, but it would pain me.

[KG Living Legend]

 As far as Yabu goes. There is two players I'm interested in besides him. Lavert who always has looked great, but had a horrible injury history.

 And Dejounte Murray. Who we really didn't need.

 Out of these names who had more upside than Yabu.

 Baldwin
 Ellenson
 Malik Beasley

 These guys all went right after Yabu. I think it was a great pick.
 

[oldtype]

Being a "reach" is different from being a bad pick. It means that he was selected above where expected to by the consensus, not that the selection was a poor decision. For all we know Yabu will be fantastic value at #16, but until he proves it on the court we will not see any surplus trade value due to his draft position. You cannot make the argument that "he's valuable because he was the sixteenth pick in last year's draft!" when nobody else valued him that way at the time.

Terry Rozier was a reach, but in retrospect he was probably a decent pick. Hopefully Yabusele will be the same.