LeBron will likely pass Jordan this playoffs

[Moranis]

Serious question. If Jordan was drafted out of high school and never quit to play baseball and didn't retire young, how many titles would he have won? 8-10? Hard to imagine you could make an argument less than 8. Jordans first 3 peat his second best teammate was Horace grant. I believe Horace grant was a 1 time all-star and was generally a high end role player. During Lebrons teams his third best teammate was a perennial all-star (bosh). Bosh was headed to the hall of fame before injuries ended his career. His other Miami title the 4th best player was ray Allen. Allen was similar to a player like tony k and was better than by Armstrong or some of the other 4th bananas.

Jordan's second three peat had better talent levels, especially when rodman was a force and those teams were similar talent levels to Lebrons cavs teams. That being said there is wat more ring chasing than there used to be and that works in Lebrons favor for the talent level on his team. Jordan never did have the luxury of adding a korver, deron Williams type to his team mid season each year (or a ray Allen for that matter). All that being said it really isn't that close and find it a bit perplexing people want to try to make the argument otherwise.

Jordan has 0 playoff series victories without Pippen.  Lost 3 times before Pippen and never made it without Pippen.  Pippen on the other hand took the Bulls to the 2nd round without Jordan and made the conference finals without Jordan in Portland. I'm certainly not suggesting Pippen is better than Jordan merely pointing out how much you are underrating him.  Pippen is by far the best teammate Jordan or James ever played with and it isn't close.  Wade is certainly a great player and a first ballot no question hall of famer but at his peak he wasn't as good as Pippen and Wade wasn't at his peak when James played with him.

As for your question, Jordan might have 1 more title if he entered earlier and didn't retire as I don't think he would have won a title in the 80's and the Bulls always struggled with the Rockets.  Remember the Bulls didn't even make the conference finals until the last year of the 80's after the Celtics got old and didn't make the Finals until the Pistons got old. 

Let's also remember, if Jordan doesn't retire in 94 there is a good chance Grant stays and they never sign Rodman either.  That would have altered the Magic as well as Grant was an instrumental member of Shaq's Magic finals team. That said Dream was always a problem for the Bulls, absolutely no guarantee that the Bulls would have actually beaten the Rockets had they even gotten by the Knicks or Magic. Teams get burnt out and don't change much when they keep winning. Jordan retiring in 94 allowed the Bulls to reset a bunch and change the team significantly.  Pippen was basically the only other holdover from the first to second threepeat.  That likely only happens if MJ walks away.  Jordan might only have 3 titles if he never retired you just don't know what those teams would have looked like without MJ leaving.  Assuming they still make most of the same changes I'm just not sure they beat the Rockets, Spurs, or Lakers in those years between and after the threepeats.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Well, Mike did skip 4 seasons in his career.

yea... yawn. He has half as many titles and this will be his 12th full prime season which is how many full prime seasons Jordan played. The comparison is dead.

MJ is the GOAT, but he had way better supporting casts with the exception of the first Miami title.

All of LeBron's  titles have come on a team that had ten times the supporting cast that Jordan had. Sure, Jordan had Pippen, who was a great player but what else?! LeBron whined about not having enough talent on his team this year when he has Kyrie, Love, Thompson, Josh Smith.

Is this a freaking joke?

You are a clueless LeBron hater. Confirmed.

MJ had the greatest rebounder ever, Kukoc, Harper, the best set shooter in NBA history in Kerr, and a coach with 11 rings to his name.

Josh Smith is being used as a guy to bolster the argument that LeBron has help? What planet are you living on? 

[celticsclay]

Well, Mike did skip 4 seasons in his career.

yea... yawn. He has half as many titles and this will be his 12th full prime season which is how many full prime seasons Jordan played. The comparison is dead.

MJ is the GOAT, but he had way better supporting casts with the exception of the first Miami title.

All of LeBron's  titles have come on a team that had ten times the supporting cast that Jordan had. Sure, Jordan had Pippen, who was a great player but what else?! LeBron whined about not having enough talent on his team this year when he has Kyrie, Love, Thompson, Josh Smith.

Is this a freaking joke?

You are a clueless LeBron hater. Confirmed.

MJ had the greatest rebounder ever, Kukoc, Harper, the best set shooter in NBA history in Kerr, and a coach with 11 rings to his name.

Josh Smith is being used as a guy to bolster the argument that LeBron has help? What planet are you living on?

Randy what are you even responding to? When did Josh smith play with Lebron?

[celticsclay]

Serious question. If Jordan was drafted out of high school and never quit to play baseball and didn't retire young, how many titles would he have won? 8-10? Hard to imagine you could make an argument less than 8. Jordans first 3 peat his second best teammate was Horace grant. I believe Horace grant was a 1 time all-star and was generally a high end role player. During Lebrons teams his third best teammate was a perennial all-star (bosh). Bosh was headed to the hall of fame before injuries ended his career. His other Miami title the 4th best player was ray Allen. Allen was similar to a player like tony k and was better than by Armstrong or some of the other 4th bananas.

Jordan's second three peat had better talent levels, especially when rodman was a force and those teams were similar talent levels to Lebrons cavs teams. That being said there is wat more ring chasing than there used to be and that works in Lebrons favor for the talent level on his team. Jordan never did have the luxury of adding a korver, deron Williams type to his team mid season each year (or a ray Allen for that matter). All that being said it really isn't that close and find it a bit perplexing people want to try to make the argument otherwise.

Jordan has 0 playoff series victories without Pippen.  Lost 3 times before Pippen and never made it without Pippen.  Pippen on the other hand took the Bulls to the 2nd round without Jordan and made the conference finals without Jordan in Portland. I'm certainly not suggesting Pippen is better than Jordan merely pointing out how much you are underrating him.  Pippen is by far the best teammate Jordan or James ever played with and it isn't close.  Wade is certainly a great player and a first ballot no question hall of famer but at his peak he wasn't as good as Pippen and Wade wasn't at his peak when James played with him.

As for your question, Jordan might have 1 more title if he entered earlier and didn't retire as I don't think he would have won a title in the 80's and the Bulls always struggled with the Rockets.  Remember the Bulls didn't even make the conference finals until the last year of the 80's after the Celtics got old and didn't make the Finals until the Pistons got old. 

Let's also remember, if Jordan doesn't retire in 94 there is a good chance Grant stays and they never sign Rodman either.  That would have altered the Magic as well as Grant was an instrumental member of Shaq's Magic finals team. That said Dream was always a problem for the Bulls, absolutely no guarantee that the Bulls would have actually beaten the Rockets had they even gotten by the Knicks or Magic. Teams get burnt out and don't change much when they keep winning. Jordan retiring in 94 allowed the Bulls to reset a bunch and change the team significantly.  Pippen was basically the only other holdover from the first to second threepeat.  That likely only happens if MJ walks away.  Jordan might only have 3 titles if he never retired you just don't know what those teams would have looked like without MJ leaving.  Assuming they still make most of the same changes I'm just not sure they beat the Rockets, Spurs, or Lakers in those years between and after the threepeats.

Moranis the Pistons teams beating Jordan, or the Celtics for that matter, when has Jordan ever played that in the east? Both teams had 3 future hall of famers in or near their prime. No team Lebron has played in the east the last few years has even had two.

[Moranis]

Serious question. If Jordan was drafted out of high school and never quit to play baseball and didn't retire young, how many titles would he have won? 8-10? Hard to imagine you could make an argument less than 8. Jordans first 3 peat his second best teammate was Horace grant. I believe Horace grant was a 1 time all-star and was generally a high end role player. During Lebrons teams his third best teammate was a perennial all-star (bosh). Bosh was headed to the hall of fame before injuries ended his career. His other Miami title the 4th best player was ray Allen. Allen was similar to a player like tony k and was better than by Armstrong or some of the other 4th bananas.

Jordan's second three peat had better talent levels, especially when rodman was a force and those teams were similar talent levels to Lebrons cavs teams. That being said there is wat more ring chasing than there used to be and that works in Lebrons favor for the talent level on his team. Jordan never did have the luxury of adding a korver, deron Williams type to his team mid season each year (or a ray Allen for that matter). All that being said it really isn't that close and find it a bit perplexing people want to try to make the argument otherwise.

Jordan has 0 playoff series victories without Pippen.  Lost 3 times before Pippen and never made it without Pippen.  Pippen on the other hand took the Bulls to the 2nd round without Jordan and made the conference finals without Jordan in Portland. I'm certainly not suggesting Pippen is better than Jordan merely pointing out how much you are underrating him.  Pippen is by far the best teammate Jordan or James ever played with and it isn't close.  Wade is certainly a great player and a first ballot no question hall of famer but at his peak he wasn't as good as Pippen and Wade wasn't at his peak when James played with him.

As for your question, Jordan might have 1 more title if he entered earlier and didn't retire as I don't think he would have won a title in the 80's and the Bulls always struggled with the Rockets.  Remember the Bulls didn't even make the conference finals until the last year of the 80's after the Celtics got old and didn't make the Finals until the Pistons got old. 

Let's also remember, if Jordan doesn't retire in 94 there is a good chance Grant stays and they never sign Rodman either.  That would have altered the Magic as well as Grant was an instrumental member of Shaq's Magic finals team. That said Dream was always a problem for the Bulls, absolutely no guarantee that the Bulls would have actually beaten the Rockets had they even gotten by the Knicks or Magic. Teams get burnt out and don't change much when they keep winning. Jordan retiring in 94 allowed the Bulls to reset a bunch and change the team significantly.  Pippen was basically the only other holdover from the first to second threepeat.  That likely only happens if MJ walks away.  Jordan might only have 3 titles if he never retired you just don't know what those teams would have looked like without MJ leaving.  Assuming they still make most of the same changes I'm just not sure they beat the Rockets, Spurs, or Lakers in those years between and after the threepeats.

Moranis the Pistons teams beating Jordan, or the Celtics for that matter, when has Jordan ever played that in the east? Both teams had 3 future hall of famers in or near their prime. No team Lebron has played in the east the last few years has even had two.

but that is the point. Jordan had a very easy time in the East when he finally started winning and the West wasn't any better. In fact the Rockets were really the only team that could have challenged the Bulls in the playoffs during the 90's until the Spurs and Lakers at the end of the decade.  Jordan might not have won a single title if his prime was in the 80's.  I mean the biggest consistent challenges in the East were the Knicks with Ewing and what the Pacers with Miller. I believe and you could easily argue the East in the 90's was weaker than the East during Lebron's current run.  Jordan didnt win until his competition disappeared.  And seriously look at the teams the Bulls played in the Finals, all basically really old or really flawed teams most of which having just 1 HOFer in their prime if even that (even the Jazz with Malone and Stockton were old teams).   You can't cite James competition without recognizing Jordan didn't win a thing until he played weak competition himself and that is with Jordan playing with the best SF of his generation who also happened to be one of the greatest players in NBA history.

[Somebody]

Serious question. If Jordan was drafted out of high school and never quit to play baseball and didn't retire young, how many titles would he have won? 8-10? Hard to imagine you could make an argument less than 8. Jordans first 3 peat his second best teammate was Horace grant. I believe Horace grant was a 1 time all-star and was generally a high end role player. During Lebrons teams his third best teammate was a perennial all-star (bosh). Bosh was headed to the hall of fame before injuries ended his career. His other Miami title the 4th best player was ray Allen. Allen was similar to a player like tony k and was better than by Armstrong or some of the other 4th bananas.

Jordan's second three peat had better talent levels, especially when rodman was a force and those teams were similar talent levels to Lebrons cavs teams. That being said there is wat more ring chasing than there used to be and that works in Lebrons favor for the talent level on his team. Jordan never did have the luxury of adding a korver, deron Williams type to his team mid season each year (or a ray Allen for that matter). All that being said it really isn't that close and find it a bit perplexing people want to try to make the argument otherwise.

Jordan has 0 playoff series victories without Pippen.  Lost 3 times before Pippen and never made it without Pippen.  Pippen on the other hand took the Bulls to the 2nd round without Jordan and made the conference finals without Jordan in Portland. I'm certainly not suggesting Pippen is better than Jordan merely pointing out how much you are underrating him.  Pippen is by far the best teammate Jordan or James ever played with and it isn't close.  Wade is certainly a great player and a first ballot no question hall of famer but at his peak he wasn't as good as Pippen and Wade wasn't at his peak when James played with him.

As for your question, Jordan might have 1 more title if he entered earlier and didn't retire as I don't think he would have won a title in the 80's and the Bulls always struggled with the Rockets.  Remember the Bulls didn't even make the conference finals until the last year of the 80's after the Celtics got old and didn't make the Finals until the Pistons got old. 

Let's also remember, if Jordan doesn't retire in 94 there is a good chance Grant stays and they never sign Rodman either.  That would have altered the Magic as well as Grant was an instrumental member of Shaq's Magic finals team. That said Dream was always a problem for the Bulls, absolutely no guarantee that the Bulls would have actually beaten the Rockets had they even gotten by the Knicks or Magic. Teams get burnt out and don't change much when they keep winning. Jordan retiring in 94 allowed the Bulls to reset a bunch and change the team significantly.  Pippen was basically the only other holdover from the first to second threepeat.  That likely only happens if MJ walks away.  Jordan might only have 3 titles if he never retired you just don't know what those teams would have looked like without MJ leaving.  Assuming they still make most of the same changes I'm just not sure they beat the Rockets, Spurs, or Lakers in those years between and after the threepeats.

Moranis the Pistons teams beating Jordan, or the Celtics for that matter, when has Jordan ever played that in the east? Both teams had 3 future hall of famers in or near their prime. No team Lebron has played in the east the last few years has even had two.

but that is the point. Jordan had a very easy time in the East when he finally started winning and the West wasn't any better. In fact the Rockets were really the only team that could have challenged the Bulls in the playoffs during the 90's until the Spurs and Lakers at the end of the decade.  Jordan might not have won a single title if his prime was in the 80's.  I mean the biggest consistent challenges in the East was the Knicks with 1 Ewing and what the Pacers with Miller. I believe and you could easily argue the East in the 90's was weaker than the East during Lebron's current run.  Jordan didnt win until his competition disappeared.  And seriously look at the teams the Bulls played in the Finals, all basically really old or really flawed teams most of which having just 1 HOFer in their prime if even that (even the Jazz with Malone and Stockton were old teams).   You can't cite James competition without recognizing Jordan didn't win a thing until he played weak competition hi self.

Pretty sure Jordan in his first run was more impressive than LeBum's (jk) , he saw off an aging but stacked pistons team and also faced off teams with multiple HOFs in Portland and Phoenix(our Celtics were not on the level of Detroit in 2011 and 2012 lol). He also did it with only one HOF by his side while LeBum had two or even three. Tbh his Cavs teams is stacked, they have tons of savvy vets and two young stars that will make it to the HOF barring injury. Jordan's 2nd run was comparable but still the Miami teams beat them by a mile. DWade was an alpha guy while Pippen couldn't really lead a team to a championship (Wade did that in 06, Shaq was starting to age). I'd say Rodman was better than Bosh but not much, Bosh was really good. As for the role players it's the Heat by a mile.

[Moranis]

Serious question. If Jordan was drafted out of high school and never quit to play baseball and didn't retire young, how many titles would he have won? 8-10? Hard to imagine you could make an argument less than 8. Jordans first 3 peat his second best teammate was Horace grant. I believe Horace grant was a 1 time all-star and was generally a high end role player. During Lebrons teams his third best teammate was a perennial all-star (bosh). Bosh was headed to the hall of fame before injuries ended his career. His other Miami title the 4th best player was ray Allen. Allen was similar to a player like tony k and was better than by Armstrong or some of the other 4th bananas.

Jordan's second three peat had better talent levels, especially when rodman was a force and those teams were similar talent levels to Lebrons cavs teams. That being said there is wat more ring chasing than there used to be and that works in Lebrons favor for the talent level on his team. Jordan never did have the luxury of adding a korver, deron Williams type to his team mid season each year (or a ray Allen for that matter). All that being said it really isn't that close and find it a bit perplexing people want to try to make the argument otherwise.

Jordan has 0 playoff series victories without Pippen.  Lost 3 times before Pippen and never made it without Pippen.  Pippen on the other hand took the Bulls to the 2nd round without Jordan and made the conference finals without Jordan in Portland. I'm certainly not suggesting Pippen is better than Jordan merely pointing out how much you are underrating him.  Pippen is by far the best teammate Jordan or James ever played with and it isn't close.  Wade is certainly a great player and a first ballot no question hall of famer but at his peak he wasn't as good as Pippen and Wade wasn't at his peak when James played with him.

As for your question, Jordan might have 1 more title if he entered earlier and didn't retire as I don't think he would have won a title in the 80's and the Bulls always struggled with the Rockets.  Remember the Bulls didn't even make the conference finals until the last year of the 80's after the Celtics got old and didn't make the Finals until the Pistons got old. 

Let's also remember, if Jordan doesn't retire in 94 there is a good chance Grant stays and they never sign Rodman either.  That would have altered the Magic as well as Grant was an instrumental member of Shaq's Magic finals team. That said Dream was always a problem for the Bulls, absolutely no guarantee that the Bulls would have actually beaten the Rockets had they even gotten by the Knicks or Magic. Teams get burnt out and don't change much when they keep winning. Jordan retiring in 94 allowed the Bulls to reset a bunch and change the team significantly.  Pippen was basically the only other holdover from the first to second threepeat.  That likely only happens if MJ walks away.  Jordan might only have 3 titles if he never retired you just don't know what those teams would have looked like without MJ leaving.  Assuming they still make most of the same changes I'm just not sure they beat the Rockets, Spurs, or Lakers in those years between and after the threepeats.

Moranis the Pistons teams beating Jordan, or the Celtics for that matter, when has Jordan ever played that in the east? Both teams had 3 future hall of famers in or near their prime. No team Lebron has played in the east the last few years has even had two.

but that is the point. Jordan had a very easy time in the East when he finally started winning and the West wasn't any better. In fact the Rockets were really the only team that could have challenged the Bulls in the playoffs during the 90's until the Spurs and Lakers at the end of the decade.  Jordan might not have won a single title if his prime was in the 80's.  I mean the biggest consistent challenges in the East was the Knicks with 1 Ewing and what the Pacers with Miller. I believe and you could easily argue the East in the 90's was weaker than the East during Lebron's current run.  Jordan didnt win until his competition disappeared.  And seriously look at the teams the Bulls played in the Finals, all basically really old or really flawed teams most of which having just 1 HOFer in their prime if even that (even the Jazz with Malone and Stockton were old teams).   You can't cite James competition without recognizing Jordan didn't win a thing until he played weak competition hi self.

Pretty sure Jordan in his first run was more impressive than LeBum's (jk) , he saw off an aging but stacked pistons team and also faced off teams with multiple HOFs in Portland and Phoenix(our Celtics were not on the level of Detroit in 2011 and 2012 lol). He also did it with only one HOF by his side while LeBum had two or even three. Tbh his Cavs teams is stacked, they have tons of savvy vets and two young stars that will make it to the HOF barring injury. Jordan's 2nd run was comparable but still the Miami teams beat them by a mile. DWade was an alpha guy while Pippen couldn't really lead a team to a championship (Wade did that in 06, Shaq was starting to age). I'd say Rodman was better than Bosh but not much, Bosh was really good. As for the role players it's the Heat by a mile.

the Pistons were done by the time the Bulls finally beat them. The following season the Pistons were out in the first round and then didn't even make the playoffs the year after.  The Lakers team they beat for the first title was even older than the Pistons. The Blazers were Clyde and a bunch of role players (I think you need to recheck that roster if you think there multiple HOFers on it).  Pippen was the 2nd best player in that series and Grant was the 4th best. The Blazers were arguably the weakest team to ever make the Finals which also shows just how weak the West was. Suns were a solid team with Charles and KJ but after Majerle and a very old Ainge the roster was crap (for the record Charles is also the only HOFer on that team). I mean Richard Dumas and Mark West were starters for them.  The Bulls really faced very weak competition during their 3 peats from both the East and West.  Jordan was certainly good enough to win a title in any era but he benefited greatly from peaking when he did as he had no real competition or rivals.  Put James in that era and he wins 6 also (of course James wouldn't have walked away so he might have won 8 ), especially with a guy like Pippen next to him. And you could say that about any of the all time greats like Bird, Magic, etc.

[celticsclay]

Moranis you live in Cleveland and it is obviously influencing you a lot here. Jordan is miles ahead of Lebron at this point

I will also add that the mavericks team that Lebron lost to was at best even with the blazers. Lebron lost to that team with a fellow hall of gamer and a perennial all star/thread

[Moranis]

During the 6 Finals appearances by the Bulls, the Bulls played exactly 4 teams with multiple HOFers on them, the Pistons and Lakers during the first finals season and the two Jazz teams in the finals. Every single team the Heat played in the Finals had at least two HOFers on it and that goes for the Warriors the last two years as well. The Heat also played Boston twice with multiple HOFers.  This idea that Jordan was winning titles against stiffer competition is just nonsense. 

I get it people don't like James because he hopped teams and talks a lot but they clearly let that cloud their judgment on a lot of these things.   Jordan definitely has a better killer instinct than James which is why if I needed to win a game I'd take Jordan every single time, but if I was building a franchise from scratch I'd take James every single time.

[Moranis]

Moranis you live in Cleveland and it is obviously influencing you a lot here. Jordan is miles ahead of Lebron at this point

I will also add that the mavericks team that Lebron lost to was at best even with the blazers. Lebron lost to that team with a fellow hall of gamer and a perennial all star/thread

I moved to Cleveland 3 years ago. I'm not born and bred of northeast Ohio.

No way Miami should have lost to Dallas, but Dallas was a much better team than Portland was and it isn't close.  Seriously have you looked at that Portland roster? It was garbage outside of Clyde.

[celticsclay]

Moranis you live in Cleveland and it is obviously influencing you a lot here. Jordan is miles ahead of Lebron at this point

I will also add that the mavericks team that Lebron lost to was at best even with the blazers. Lebron lost to that team with a fellow hall of gamer and a perennial all star/thread

I moved to Cleveland 3 years ago. I'm not born and bred of northeast Ohio.

No way Miami should have lost to Dallas, but Dallas was a much better team than Portland was and it isn't close.  Seriously have you looked at that Portland roster? It was garbage outside of Clyde.

Terry porter, Jerome Kersey, Cliff Robinson and Kevin duckworth all had lengthy NBA careers. They have had comparable careers to players like Tyson chandler, very old Jason Kidd  and Jason terry who were the best players after dirk.

[GreenEnvy]

I don't care what LeBron finishes with, whether it's his 3 or passes Jordan with 7, I can't see how he's held in the same regard as MJ.

Jordan played 3 years in college (where he won a championship), retired at the top of his game athletically, and then again after winning  MVP and Finals MVP.

LeBron is clearly one of the greatest ever. Top 10 for sure and when all is said and done, he's in the top 5 (somewhere with Bird/Magic). But for all his accolades, he's no MJ. The 6/6 in the Finals, the countless big shots, and his cultural significance makes his the best that ever played the game. he changed the game and the way kids who watched him played. We all practiced his moves. What can kids practice now, flopping and whining?

LeBron's great. Nobody is denying that. But Jordan is still the GOAT.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I don't care what LeBron finishes with, whether it's his 3 or passes Jordan with 7, I can't see how he's held in the same regard as MJ.

Jordan played 3 years in college (where he won a championship), retired at the top of his game athletically, and then again after winning  MVP and Finals MVP.

LeBron is clearly one of the greatest ever. Top 10 for sure and when all is said and done, he's in the top 5 (somewhere with Bird/Magic). But for all his accolades, he's no MJ. The 6/6 in the Finals, the countless big shots, and his cultural significance makes his the best that ever played the game. he changed the game and the way kids who watched him played. We all practiced his moves. What can kids practice now, flopping and whining?

LeBron's great. Nobody is denying that. But Jordan is still the GOAT.

LeBron is top 3, he is clearly better than Bird or Magic. Stop with this might get there nonsense.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Well, Mike did skip 4 seasons in his career.

yea... yawn. He has half as many titles and this will be his 12th full prime season which is how many full prime seasons Jordan played. The comparison is dead.

MJ is the GOAT, but he had way better supporting casts with the exception of the first Miami title.

All of LeBron's  titles have come on a team that had ten times the supporting cast that Jordan had. Sure, Jordan had Pippen, who was a great player but what else?! LeBron whined about not having enough talent on his team this year when he has Kyrie, Love, Thompson, Josh Smith.

Is this a freaking joke?

You are a clueless LeBron hater. Confirmed.

MJ had the greatest rebounder ever, Kukoc, Harper, the best set shooter in NBA history in Kerr, and a coach with 11 rings to his name.

Josh Smith is being used as a guy to bolster the argument that LeBron has help? What planet are you living on?

Randy what are you even responding to? When did Josh smith play with Lebron?

I think we both meant JR, although neither he nor Josh are guys you should be comparing to Kerr or Kukoc.

[Boris Badenov]

Like most of these debates this is a complicated one, and I really don't understand the hyperbole in this thread on either side.

I will say this: in my opinion Scottie Pippen is a better teammate than Lebron's ever had, and Pippen/Rodman trumps anything Lebron has had as well.

I even think those Bulls teams were deeper than Lebron's. Kukoc, Harper and Kerr were really excellent players in their own rights as an example. Heck, BJ Armstrong and Horace Grant were All-Stars.

But, I also think that Jordan played against stiffer competition for the most part. The Lakers were still great. Those Utah teams had two players who are in the conversation as the best ever at their positions. The Blazers and Sonics were tough. The Pistons were still good.

As I look at the paths Lebron has had, I don't see anything similarly tough except for last year.

I will say this: if the Cavs win this year, the conversation needs to change. That GSW team is stacked and to beat them two out of three years would be amazing. We are talking about an opponent that has won 67, 73 and 67 games.