IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)

[Tr1boy]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

And other times he 'experimented' it worked

It is also not for a player to call out a coach in front of the media...

I think you're right on both counts, TP. Stevens has done a lot of good things and this was perhaps one that didn't work. It happens. Or, maybe those guys just had off nights and the lineup could work if he tried again. These are really, really small samples.

Also agree on the second point. Calling out teammates is one thing (and Crowder has done it himself). It's not ideal but it doesn't seem as poisonous as undermining the coach.

I mean, we were missing two key players, both bigs. The minutes had to come from somewhere. He played Mickey for 3 minutes and they were -14 in those three minutes. It's not like he stuck with it for 15 when things were going badly. Maybe IT didn't fully appreciate that.

This is all much ado about nothing (or very little) anyway, in my opinion. Teams have bad stretches. Sometimes players don't handle things the way they should. And Isaiah isn't Tom Brady, he doesn't have a decade of experience sitting under the bright lights and keeping cool after tough losses. It's easy for us to Monday morning quarterback the whole thing, but people are human, let's just chill out.

Yes ... Good points

[BringToughnessBack]

Wake me when we win an actual playoff series and IT proves he can do it in the really big games. Regular season stats are great but mean zip if superstar cannot lead us to greener pastures in the postseason.

Last I checked IT has yet to win a playoff series with our team. If we fail to win one this year, I give him one more chance in 17 to show something in the playoffs.

Calling out teammates and the coaching staff is not the sign of a true leader. Especially when he has yet to show he can lead us when it counts. Tick...Tock....

[More Banners]

I wish IT would shut up after losses.
He would still be on the bench without Stevens .
4 guys have to make up for him in defense while he goes to the allstar game.
Just stop talking.

If no one got upset after losing 2 winnable games....we would be the BKN Nets.
I am fine with him being passionate and upset, he didn't cross the line imo.

Oh, and no way IT would have stayed on the bench  this entire time. Yes guys have to make up for his defense BUT he is making up for 7.5 guys' offense(half the team). Take away IT and we would be much better defensively but would lose more games because the offensive power of today's NBA

Non of that is an excuse to criticize your coach in front of the media. A day after you blamed your teammate of a TO.
Says what you have to say in the locker room.

Exactly this.

Whether or not his criticism has merit is irrelevant.

Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing about lineups is our job. Off my turf, shorty!

[apc]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

And other times he 'experimented' it worked

It is also not for a player to call out a coach in front of the media...

I think you're right on both counts, TP. Stevens has done a lot of good things and this was perhaps one that didn't work. It happens. Or, maybe those guys just had off nights and the lineup could work if he tried again. These are really, really small samples.

Also agree on the second point. Calling out teammates is one thing (and Crowder has done it himself). It's not ideal but it doesn't seem as poisonous as undermining the coach.

I mean, we were missing two key players, both bigs. The minutes had to come from somewhere. He played Mickey for 3 minutes and they were -14 in those three minutes. It's not like he stuck with it for 15 when things were going badly. Maybe IT didn't fully appreciate that.

This is all much ado about nothing (or very little) anyway, in my opinion. Teams have bad stretches. Sometimes players don't handle things the way they should. And Isaiah isn't Tom Brady, he doesn't have a decade of experience sitting under the bright lights and keeping cool after tough losses. It's easy for us to Monday morning quarterback the whole thing, but people are human, let's just chill out.

Yes ... Good points

-14 in 3 minutes... ouch. those are bad minutes right there

[Sketch5]

Problem with IT, is he's not looking at the bit picture. If the rumors are true DA tried to get TWO big names to come and help, they didn't pan out, and thats why there is no additional help.  DA tied all his efforts into two guys and when the teams backed out, there was no time left. He did an all or nothing this time around. And thats fine.

Other thing is Stevens is still a young coach, and has a team over achieving. But he WILL make mistakes, and yest some times you have to see how a line up may work in a game that may have worked in practice. Plus with two bigs out, you don't have much of a choice, and you still need to try to keep guys rested for the playoffs.

DA and Stevens are just trying to improve this season, they aren't playing for anything more that that. Get a better record, and make a stronger run in the playoffs. Anything more than that is gravy.

I like IT, he's great on the offensive end of the floor, but he's still have a lot to learn about leading a team. Between that and him not being able to be on the defensive end of the floor at crunch time of tight games, makes me wonder if he's worth the full MAX. But maybe thats the old school mentality.

He is looking at the big picture - the big picture for him and guys like Horford is that they're in the middle of their primes and want to compete now. These guys aren't coming in and thinking about the Nets picks and the offseason. It's hypocritical for Danny and Co. to tout a winning culture and then look around and say, "top 4 seed and second round playoff exit is good enough."

. 

I completely get IT's frustrations. The issues with this team aren't new. We've been paper thin in the frontcourt and it should've been addressed by now. We didn't need a major, franchise altering move.

Horford move was to get KD, didn't work. DA put the Nets picks on the table for PG13, Indy didn't bite. We still have draft night were we can snag Butler or PG13, thats where the big picture comes into play.

For being in year 4 after gutting the team to be #2 in the east and even if we got bounced in the second round, I'd say we are ahead of the game. Problem is people are inpatient and greedy. Winning cultures are either brought in like KG, or you have to build it. KG an't walking threw that door, and if he is, he's limping threw it.

DA tried for Butler and PG13 and both teams backed out, so it's not like theirs no effort, but DA is also being smart and not getting rid of everything on a player that may bolt after a season and a half. And he's in the drivers seat when it comes to trades, if we miss out on Butler,Griffen,PG13,Hayward and draft instead, it's still a good future for the C's. It's just going to take longer, but to have a core of...

Smart/Brown/Jackson,Fultx,Ball/Nets 18, along with Zizic and Yabu, thats a pretty good team. It's like Mini, yeah not good right now, but could be scary good in 3 years.

I'd rather DA build threw the draft then try to get a ring for IT and Horford buy auctioning off all the decent talent and picks for players that MIGHT get us past Cleveland and GSW.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I don't believe his intentions were to cause any rifts because quite clearly, Stevens, like a lot of coaches in the NBA, can do everything right up to a point and then out of no-where decide to get cute and make a costly decision because of pride, inclusion, or an ill-advised idea that James Young will prove useful. I am literally asking myself if Stevens is aware that the trade deadline has passed and James Young's services will no longer be required here in Boston.

IT knows this is his team and it's a player's league. He's the talent here, we NEED him. He'll get away with this slew of criticisms based on the fact. You can feel the frustration as there is a lot of pressure and faith in him from top down in the organization and they want him to earn his money.

LOL. TP.

Regarding IT, my suspicion is that he may be starting to see—as Ray Allen once did—that he is, in one sense, just a single cog in the complex machine that is Danny's Master Plan (hereafter referred to as the DMP).

This isn't to say that Danny doesn't genuinely care about IT, or Ray, or any other of his players; I think he does.

But individual players ultimately play second fiddle to the DMP, because Danny's goal—in fact, his job description—is to win titles, which necessitates making the team as good as possible for as long as possible in each era. The New Big Three era is over, and now he's building the next era. He pulled off a great move getting Stevens as coach, and a big heist in getting IT on the cheap, and I think the quicker-than-expected success over the last couple of seasons presented an opportunity to get even better even quicker, so he signed Horford, then tried like heck to complete the nearly overnight makeover with a KD signing but came up just short.

So for now, he's fallen back on "keep the team good, competitive, and improving" until he can make his next big strike. It didn't happen at this year's trade deadline, but it could happen on draft night, or over the summer; either way, Danny's main concern is maintaining the team's upward trajectory while maintaining roster flexibility so he can strike at the right time and in the right way—that is, making the right moves to ensure as large a title window as possible, certainly longer than the title window of the New Big Three era.

I'm sure that, in Danny's ideal world, that window would align perfectly with IT's rise to stardom (and even the remainder of Horford's prime), but if it doesn't, his sentiment is probably, "Oh well." He's building something, which means that from his point of view, it doesn't matter if Player X is part of the building's foundation, part of its support structure, or the capstone—what matters is the overall building and how that turns out.

That can rub players (and fans) the wrong way, but that's the way it is with Danny. In the DMP, no player is bigger than the team or long-term success.

If I were Isaiah Thomas and I'm having an insane MVP-caliber season, I would feel slighted by Ainge and the Celtics for not recognizing the specialness of this scoring onslaught and cashing in those assets to get the necessary help on the believe that I am THE GUY. 

What if IT walks because he didn't believe Ainge did enough to help him even with all the big-time assets the C's hold?

Then the winning will stop, or at least we'll take a giant step back. Smart is not the player IT is, he's not scoring 30 a game, Lonzo Ball is not scoring 30 a game, Fultz might. Then you can kiss the FA meetings good bye as the team will lose relevancy. I think Ainge should prioritize Isaiah and his happiness in Boston. We have to secure our most important piece, the other dominoes will fall when they need to but right now our current best player is airing the dirty laundry, has been overwhelming underpaid, and can become a distraction...

I totally get the frustration from IT. And my previous post is not how I feel about IT, just my opinion on how I think Danny views the overall team-building process. I hope he's able to keep IT around and that IT is part of the next Celtics dynasty, but it wouldn't surprise me if Danny has something else in mind for IT.

[Tr1boy]

Imo the team should suspend IT4 a game....

If not CBS control/respect from the team may start slipping

[Phantom255x]

Imo the team should suspend IT4 a game....

If not CBS control/respect from the team will start slipping

Well, that just means we'll get blown out by 50 against Golden State tomorrow night 

[nickagneta]

Imo the team should suspend IT4 a game....

If not CBS control/respect from the team may start slipping

Most likely IF Stevens has a problem he will talk to him in private, like he did earlier in the year.

[Ilikesports17]

IT and Mickey for Saric, Holmes and a future second? Would make sense for both teams? Of course, every Isaiah trade should be proposed AFTER the draft lottery, so asking now for a "fair" trade is a bit weird. So, assuming we can land Fultz/Ball and keep Bradley and Smart (with Jaylen who can play SG at this stage of his career) trading IT to balance the team shouldn't be out of the question.

I have to say for those who don't respect any opinions different than theirs that this is just a forum when all of us want the Celtics to win and none of us will affect the probabilities of the Celtics to win. So relax and enjoy, guys.

trading an MVP candidate for Dario Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Saric is a mind-numbing overpay

[Ilikesports17]

Imo the team should suspend IT4 a game....

If not CBS control/respect from the team may start slipping

Most likely IF Stevens has a problem he will talk to him in private, like he did earlier in the year.

when was this?

[Tr1boy]

Imo the team should suspend IT4 a game....

If not CBS control/respect from the team may start slipping

Most likely IF Stevens has a problem he will talk to him in private, like he did earlier in the year.

Yeah, the proper procedure

Will IT4 listen? Who knows

He has called off CBS a few times already this year...threw him under the bus.... The feeling I get is that he treats CBS like he is a friend or something

[Darío SpanishFan]

IT and Mickey for Saric, Holmes and a future second? Would make sense for both teams? Of course, every Isaiah trade should be proposed AFTER the draft lottery, so asking now for a "fair" trade is a bit weird. So, assuming we can land Fultz/Ball and keep Bradley and Smart (with Jaylen who can play SG at this stage of his career) trading IT to balance the team shouldn't be out of the question.

I have to say for those who don't respect any opinions different than theirs that this is just a forum when all of us want the Celtics to win and none of us will affect the probabilities of the Celtics to win. So relax and enjoy, guys.

trading an MVP candidate for Dario ****ing Saric is a mind-numbing overpay

I don't think Isaiah is an MVP candidate, given that he only plays on one side of the court. I've sometimes read the realgm forums and nobody says he is a legit contender for MVP, save a few Celtics fans.

Also, Saric has such a beautiful name... 

[Ilikesports17]

IT and Mickey for Saric, Holmes and a future second? Would make sense for both teams? Of course, every Isaiah trade should be proposed AFTER the draft lottery, so asking now for a "fair" trade is a bit weird. So, assuming we can land Fultz/Ball and keep Bradley and Smart (with Jaylen who can play SG at this stage of his career) trading IT to balance the team shouldn't be out of the question.

I have to say for those who don't respect any opinions different than theirs that this is just a forum when all of us want the Celtics to win and none of us will affect the probabilities of the Celtics to win. So relax and enjoy, guys.

trading an MVP candidate for Dario ****ing Saric is a mind-numbing overpay

I don't think Isaiah is an MVP candidate, given that he only plays on one side of the court. I've sometimes read the realgm forums and nobody says he is a legit contender for MVP, save a few Celtics fans.

Also, Saric has such a beautiful name... 

Thats still pennies on the dollar for a fringe MVP candidate

[JaylenBrown7]

IT and Mickey for Saric, Holmes and a future second? Would make sense for both teams? Of course, every Isaiah trade should be proposed AFTER the draft lottery, so asking now for a "fair" trade is a bit weird. So, assuming we can land Fultz/Ball and keep Bradley and Smart (with Jaylen who can play SG at this stage of his career) trading IT to balance the team shouldn't be out of the question.

I have to say for those who don't respect any opinions different than theirs that this is just a forum when all of us want the Celtics to win and none of us will affect the probabilities of the Celtics to win. So relax and enjoy, guys.

trading an MVP candidate for Dario ****ing Saric is a mind-numbing overpay

I don't think Isaiah is an MVP candidate, given that he only plays on one side of the court. I've sometimes read the realgm forums and nobody says he is a legit contender for MVP, save a few Celtics fans.

Also, Saric has such a beautiful name... 

Thats still pennies on the dollar for a fringe MVP candidate

Hes 28 with 1 year on the contract left