IT Complaints: Fallout & Future (merged IT kvetching threads)

[Ogaju]

I was at the game and I had to ask when I saw that line up....why is he playing small Ball?

KO was horrendous.

[PhoSita]

As for thetwo comments after losses, players get aggravated and mad and don't always say what they should. Many Celtic star have saidstuff they wished they haven't after games and many saida lot worse than IT. I just don't see the big deal.

Also, I hate to break the reality of the situation to you guys but IT is here to stay, he will sign a max contract and if we draft a guard that guard will be coming off the bench for probably 2 years. Youare all going to have to live with those situations.

Preach!

Completely agree. And that's how it should be.

TP.

Seconded.

IT is our guy.

We should be thankful to have a player worthy of that designation.


Have we all forgotten what it was like watching Rondo loaf around every couple of games, and then give surly non-responses to the media afterward?

This is nothing.

[KG Living Legend]

I was at the game and I had to ask when I saw that line up....why is he playing small Ball?

KO was horrendous.

 Do you live in LA Oga?

[adam.jones614]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

[Tr1boy]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

And other times he 'experimented' it worked

It is also not for a player to call out a coach in front of the media...

[mmmmm]

That Experiment as IT called it was not the reason we lost the game.. Our starters were.

You clearly watched a different game than I did.

'Disagree very strongly with your characterizations of that game.   The scoreboard also disagrees with you.  The starters weren't on the floor when the scoreboard swung completely around to their favor.

[chilidawg]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

Mickey played for two minutes, so they didn't roll with it for an "extended stretch".  The lineup I remembered was the summer league quintet of Young, Rozier, Brown, Smart and Mickey.  They were -11 in Mickey's two minutes.

[Ilikesports17]

Thanks RondoHondo and Slam for your time to explain. TP for both.

I've backed this way of action since I started to post, and more people are joining it lately. Trade IT in the summer for a good player, draft Fultz/Ball, sign Hayward (or try as hell) and bring Zizic. Then extend Bradley and Smart.

The problem with this whole line of thinking is that start-for-star trades are very hard to make happen and very rare.

Trades of any kind involving star players are rare as it is.  The few that occur tend to be star-for-assets type trades as one side decides to rebuild.   Star-for-star trades happen something like once every few decades.    For that sort of deal to occur, you need to have two teams at the same time needing or wanting to trade away a star player AND wanting to replace them with the type of star player the other team is trying to move.   That's just plain going to be a rare kismet.  On top of that, you now have to factor in all the usual logistical difficulties involved with making trades.

So forget any notion of trading IT for a 'star'.  A more common way that stars get traded is for assets:  Picks, young players, tradable contracts.  You might get a 'good player', but that usually happens as a surprise bonus from a package of assets.  For example, Jae Crowder emerging as a really, really good player out of the Rondo liquidation package.

Further, Danny is almost certainly not going to suddenly be trying to trade Thomas just because Thomas spoke a couple of truths-best-kept-in-the-lockerroom during post-loss frustration moments with microphones shoved in his face.

I challenge anyone to propose a viable IT trade that wouldn't make us all puke.

I'd love to see one as well.

I get trading IT if you could get something resembling equal value but I don't see that happening at all.

What?! Don't you guys even read the thread in which you are posting I just mentioned Myles Turner and Jokic as players I think would work out quite well in a trade. I understand that Denver appears to be all-in on Jokic, but Paul George was quoted as being excited to see IT play during All-Star weekend.

With Bird having some decisions to make on the future of Indy (next year is George's last before FA), this could be a match made in heaven for both teams.

Note: I am not the originator of this idea, but the same threads pop up around here every few days so I figured I would rehash this one since it has apparently been totally forgotten.

lol I read the thread.

Jokic is incredibly unrealistic.

Turner is the best idea Ive seen, but I dont see Indiana doing it and we lose from a talent perspective on the basis that Turner is really unlikely to ever be as good as Thomas is.

[jambr380]

Nick, I've known you for a lot of years on this site and you seem to be extra grumpy lately. I always used to enjoy your well-thought out posts, but have noticed your attitude has shifted. I think you mentioned something recently about health problems - I hope all will be okay. It would be great to get the the fun-loving Nick back  Wishing you the best!

[Darío SpanishFan]

IT and Mickey for Saric, Holmes and a future second? Would make sense for both teams? Of course, every Isaiah trade should be proposed AFTER the draft lottery, so asking now for a "fair" trade is a bit weird. So, assuming we can land Fultz/Ball and keep Bradley and Smart (with Jaylen who can play SG at this stage of his career) trading IT to balance the team shouldn't be out of the question.

I have to say for those who don't respect any opinions different than theirs that this is just a forum when all of us want the Celtics to win and none of us will affect the probabilities of the Celtics to win. So relax and enjoy, guys.

[Boris Badenov]

Oh well. Players complain to the media after tough losses all the time. I'm always more concerned when players aren't like this after a loss. Those losses are supposed to hurt. If a player doesn't take them personally then get him off my team. Brad was in the wrong and props to IT for calling it out.

The crowder thing seems to me to be misunderstood. At least the way I took it it sounded more like he was scolding himself for not looking and giving up the 3.

What??

Bro that Young, Rozier, Smart, Mickey, Zeller lineup made my eyes bleed. Turned the whole game around and we rolled with it for an extended stretch

And other times he 'experimented' it worked

It is also not for a player to call out a coach in front of the media...

I think you're right on both counts, TP. Stevens has done a lot of good things and this was perhaps one that didn't work. It happens. Or, maybe those guys just had off nights and the lineup could work if he tried again. These are really, really small samples.

Also agree on the second point. Calling out teammates is one thing (and Crowder has done it himself). It's not ideal but it doesn't seem as poisonous as undermining the coach.

I mean, we were missing two key players, both bigs. The minutes had to come from somewhere. He played Mickey for 3 minutes and they were -14 in those three minutes. It's not like he stuck with it for 15 when things were going badly. Maybe IT didn't fully appreciate that.

This is all much ado about nothing (or very little) anyway, in my opinion. Teams have bad stretches. Sometimes players don't handle things the way they should. And Isaiah isn't Tom Brady, he doesn't have a decade of experience sitting under the bright lights and keeping cool after tough losses. It's easy for us to Monday morning quarterback the whole thing, but people are human, let's just chill out.

[Chris22]

IT should have called out Al Horford's elbow.

[Sketch5]

Problem with IT, is he's not looking at the bit picture. If the rumors are true DA tried to get TWO big names to come and help, they didn't pan out, and thats why there is no additional help.  DA tied all his efforts into two guys and when the teams backed out, there was no time left. He did an all or nothing this time around. And thats fine.

Other thing is Stevens is still a young coach, and has a team over achieving. But he WILL make mistakes, and yest some times you have to see how a line up may work in a game that may have worked in practice. Plus with two bigs out, you don't have much of a choice, and you still need to try to keep guys rested for the playoffs.

DA and Stevens are just trying to improve this season, they aren't playing for anything more that that. Get a better record, and make a stronger run in the playoffs. Anything more than that is gravy.

I like IT, he's great on the offensive end of the floor, but he's still have a lot to learn about leading a team. Between that and him not being able to be on the defensive end of the floor at crunch time of tight games, makes me wonder if he's worth the full MAX. But maybe thats the old school mentality.

Is that so?  Then why on earth did DA not make a 'smaller' move at the deadline to shore up the front court?  That would have helped this team this year heading towards the playoffs.  It also would have made better players out of everyone else.  That would have been worth it without sacrificing the BKN picks.

He made a move to get Horford, thats an improvement for this year. Yes most of it was banking on the chance of getting KD, but we are better with Horford on the floor than not.

All the small moves were gone once DA got done with Indy and Chi. He's also said he's not tying up cap with guys who don't move the needled at this point.

[nickagneta]

My health issue is I am bipolar. I have been bipolar since high school. My health issue has little to do with my opinions or how I pose them.

I don't feel I have in any way been grumpy, just stating my opinion that, for the moment, a lot of the blog might not like.

IT is not this team's problem and I feel those complaining about him or want to trade him just don't realize how hard it is to find a star or how important it is to a team to have one.

I don't believe youth wins championships. Just ask anyone who played in a fantasy basketball league with me like the Celticsblog Draft or the Pick 2 Draft.

I don't like knuckleheads like Demarcus Cousins. Ask Roy about how long I haven't believed in him.

I am not fond of fans that show up on this blog just to complain. I was the guy that started the optimism only thread
because the game threads were getting so negative and full of fans that liked nothing more than complaining about the team rather than cheer them on. I know many fans don't like certain players, complain about them, bring up stats to back their dislike, and bring thoughtful reasons why trading them or letting them go would be good. I don't have a problem with those people...I am one with Kelly Olynyk.

So, I don't think I have been grumpy, just maybe a bit more forceful in my opinions due to the sheer volume of posts that have recently been on the blog that I do not agree with and I think need a more forceful response.

Lastly, this shouldn't go any farther here. If you or anyone else wants to respond it should by via PM.

[The Oracle]

                          Minutes     +/-

Amir/K.O.               6.8        +5
Amir small ball       16.9       +2
K.O. small ball       13.7       even
Zeller small ball      5.8         +1
Zeller/Mickey          .6          -3
Mickey small ball     2.0        -11
NO BIGS on floor     2.5        -8

1. The C's got killed without either Amir or K.O. on the floor. 
2. The C's had 2 big men on the floor together for less than 8 minutes against the Clippers.
3. LOL at the Rozier/Smart/Young/Brown/Mickey line up to end the 3rd quarter when the C's  were still up 7.
4. Just wow at the I.T./Bradley/Smart/Brown/Crowder line up in the 4th.