Bogut Has Strong Interest in Joining C's (Update: Chooses Cavs)

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an ap? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

Well, the Magic are pretty hard to watch, so i'll give you that one. 
So, I looked it up, and all these TV ratings do NOT include streaming viewership. 

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/solutions/measurement/television.html

Might explain the across the board trend for reg. season games, then the spike back up for playoffs?

Do you really think there are 15% more streaming across all teams this season from last season? That basically is what it would have to take for your argument to work 100%. I don't think there has been an explosion in streaming this season from last season. I know probably about 5-6 people that do that on their devices (and this is in the bay area with silicon valley where technology is adopted pretty heavily). Of the people I think all of them did it last season also.

Perhaps 3-4% more people are streaming this season (although that sounds high). That doesn't really account for the other 12% drop in ratings. I am fairly incredulous that is so debatable there would be lower regular season ratings across the league when you have 12 of the 24 all stars in the entire league congregated across 4 teams. It means a lot of teams don't have star power and are more boring to watch.

I also am a bit surprised this is being met with such skepticism here because Adam Silver has talked about competitive balance being an issue and the league recently changed the rules to try and help teams have more advantages in keeping their stars (so they don't congregate on 1 to 2 teams).

[liam]

I think this "Bogut" topic must be mislabeled.

[D Dub]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an ap? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

Well, the Magic are pretty hard to watch, so i'll give you that one. 
So, I looked it up, and all these TV ratings do NOT include streaming viewership. 

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/solutions/measurement/television.html

Might explain the across the board trend for reg. season games, then the spike back up for playoffs?

Do you really think there are 15% more streaming across all teams this season from last season? That basically is what it would have to take for your argument to work 100%. I don't think there has been an explosion in streaming this season from last season. I know probably about 5-6 people that do that on their devices (and this is in the bay area with silicon valley where technology is adopted pretty heavily). Of the people I think all of them did it last season also.

Perhaps 3-4% more people are streaming this season (although that sounds high). That doesn't really account for the other 12% drop in ratings. I am fairly incredulous that is so debatable there would be lower regular season ratings across the league when you have 12 of the 24 all stars in the entire league congregated across 4 teams. It means a lot of teams don't have star power and are more boring to watch.

I also am a bit surprised this is being met with such skepticism here because Adam Silver has talked about competitive balance being an issue and the league recently changed the rules to try and help teams have more advantages in keeping their stars (so they don't congregate on 1 to 2 teams).

hard to draw conclusions from the ratings data, when you know its incomplete.   that's all.

people do love their ipads, so....it must be part of the equation.  no sense in ignoring that because you had already made up your mind without considering it as a factor. 

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an ap? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

Well, the Magic are pretty hard to watch, so i'll give you that one. 
So, I looked it up, and all these TV ratings do NOT include streaming viewership. 

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/solutions/measurement/television.html

Might explain the across the board trend for reg. season games, then the spike back up for playoffs?

Do you really think there are 15% more streaming across all teams this season from last season? That basically is what it would have to take for your argument to work 100%. I don't think there has been an explosion in streaming this season from last season. I know probably about 5-6 people that do that on their devices (and this is in the bay area with silicon valley where technology is adopted pretty heavily). Of the people I think all of them did it last season also.

Perhaps 3-4% more people are streaming this season (although that sounds high). That doesn't really account for the other 12% drop in ratings. I am fairly incredulous that is so debatable there would be lower regular season ratings across the league when you have 12 of the 24 all stars in the entire league congregated across 4 teams. It means a lot of teams don't have star power and are more boring to watch.

I also am a bit surprised this is being met with such skepticism here because Adam Silver has talked about competitive balance being an issue and the league recently changed the rules to try and help teams have more advantages in keeping their stars (so they don't congregate on 1 to 2 teams).

hard to draw conclusions from the ratings data, when you know its incomplete.   that's all.

people do love their ipads, so....it must be part of the equation. no sense in ignoring that because you had already made up your mind without considering it as a factor.

I feel like I have acknowledged repeatedly it is a factor (even going so far as to say this could be responsible for a 3-4% decrease from just last season (which is a ton of app use!). I also agree it would be cool to have this data, and perhaps it will be made available in a year or two to give us a better idea. I can throw this in a separate thread at some point because it is a pretty interesting topic. Back to the original Bogut thing, I do think the league will explore some restrictions on buyout candidates going to super teams like this in some form in the next year or two.

When you look at the list of guys that Roy mentioned for the Celtics 38 year old PJ Brown, Mikki Moore, Marquise Daniels, soon to retire Sam Cassell etc it is a bit of a different situation than Deron Williams this year,  Joe Johnson last year, Ty Lawson last year, Brandon Jennings this year, Bogut this year. These are not the fringe NBA players like Mikki Moore, Carlos Arroyo, and Sasha Pavlovic or guys a few months away from retirement wanting a ring like Brown and Cassell. I think the league already has an issue with being top heavy. Having these teams get even more quality vets on top of that is not great.   

[celticsclay]

Update: It appears at least some NBA execs feel as annoyed about what the buyout process has become. From Zach Lowe

erception is worse than reality, but this sure feels like a rigged game, doesn't it? The Raptors trade real stuff for Serge Ibaka, while LeBron and the Warriors wait around to nab their pick of the buyout crew for free. The process agitates the other 28 teams. (So does The Process, but that's a different conversation. Get well, Joel!)

Team executives have pitched a bunch of solutions to this maybe-not-a-problem. The league could move up the drop-dead date for playoff eligibility -- now March 1 -- so that it comes before the trade deadline. It could limit buyout signings to one per team. One exec even suggested a "buyout wire" that would operate like the waiver wire.

Right now, if no team in the waiver wire line with room to absorb Andrew Bogut's full $11 million salary hit volunteers, he goes straight into free agency -- eligible to sign with every team but the one that just waived him.

Teams with requisite room will almost never claim expensive players via that waiver process; they are available because they aren't performing up to their deals, and of minimal interest to the typical team with mega-space.


Once a player goes unclaimed, he'd move onto the proposed "buyout wire." Teams with cap room would get first crack at offering these guys reasonable salaries. Instead of swallowing Bogut's full deal, a team like Houston, flush with $3.5 million in new space, could bid any or all of that amount against other teams with room (or the $2.9 million room exception). Whoever bids the most gets Bogut. If no team with room bids, the capped-out teams -- like Cleveland -- can have at him, perhaps in reverse order of record. The winning bidder could even snare Early Bird Rights on the player -- a potential incentive to bidding.

[Moranis]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an app? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

It also strikes me as clearly being a question of "how much" not "if" for NBA ratings being down. Even Moranis hypothesized that part of the reason the Mavericks viewing is down because Dirk was not playing. Wouldn't that theory mean less people will watch their teams as their stars (KD, Love, Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge) congregate on other super teams?

that WSJ article is from December 2015.  What that has to do with this season I have no idea.

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an app? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

It also strikes me as clearly being a question of "how much" not "if" for NBA ratings being down. Even Moranis hypothesized that part of the reason the Mavericks viewing is down because Dirk was not playing. Wouldn't that theory mean less people will watch their teams as their stars (KD, Love, Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge) congregate on other super teams?

that WSJ article is from December 2015.  What that has to do with this season I have no idea.

This was a discussion of whether having super super teams is bad for ratings of the league.considering we are barreling towards our third straight matchup of the same two teams this is something that has been a concern for a while. An article on ratings from about a year ago is highly relevant to that discussion. I also have a favor to ask moranis. If you want to participate in a discussion and add your opinion on it, that would be great (though I often disagree with you). Coming in and not saying anything about the discussion and trying to take a one line pot shot really does not add anything to this.

There have been 3-4 articles submitted to this debate including 1 from just a month ago.instead of just going after the one oldest article and adding no other info, why not comment on the ones that are more recent or you find more relevant? If it is not an interesting topic why comment?

[Moranis]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an app? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

It also strikes me as clearly being a question of "how much" not "if" for NBA ratings being down. Even Moranis hypothesized that part of the reason the Mavericks viewing is down because Dirk was not playing. Wouldn't that theory mean less people will watch their teams as their stars (KD, Love, Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge) congregate on other super teams?

that WSJ article is from December 2015.  What that has to do with this season I have no idea.

This was a discussion of whether having super super teams is bad for ratings of the league.considering we are barreling towards our third straight matchup of the same two teams this is something that has been a concern for a while. An article on ratings from about a year ago is highly relevant to that discussion. I also have a favor to ask moranis. If you want to participate in a discussion and add your opinion on it, that would be great (though I often disagree with you). Coming in and not saying anything about the discussion and trying to take a one line pot shot really does not add anything to this.

There have been 3-4 articles submitted to this debate including 1 from just a month ago.instead of just going after the one oldest article and adding no other info, why not comment on the ones that are more recent or you find more relevant? If it is not an interesting topic why comment?

You said the ratings were down nationally as well as locally, but then posted an article from last season to support that.  You had previously posted a recent article on regional ratings, but regional ratings are not what drive the big dollar television contracts, the national ratings do.  So I will ask yet again, are the national ratings down and if so, where is your proof of that?  I don't care about last season, I don't care about regional ratings, I care about the national ratings, what are those and how do those compare to prior years?

EDIT: and for the record, last year's regular season ratings saw a tremendous increase from the prior season.  http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/nba-tv-partners-playoffs-ratings-1201754874/.  Last year's Western Conference Finals on TNT were a ratings bonanza setting all kinds of records.  http://deadline.com/2016/05/nba-western-conference-game-six-ratings-tnt-1201764402/

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an app? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

It also strikes me as clearly being a question of "how much" not "if" for NBA ratings being down. Even Moranis hypothesized that part of the reason the Mavericks viewing is down because Dirk was not playing. Wouldn't that theory mean less people will watch their teams as their stars (KD, Love, Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge) congregate on other super teams?

that WSJ article is from December 2015.  What that has to do with this season I have no idea.

This was a discussion of whether having super super teams is bad for ratings of the league.considering we are barreling towards our third straight matchup of the same two teams this is something that has been a concern for a while. An article on ratings from about a year ago is highly relevant to that discussion. I also have a favor to ask moranis. If you want to participate in a discussion and add your opinion on it, that would be great (though I often disagree with you). Coming in and not saying anything about the discussion and trying to take a one line pot shot really does not add anything to this.

There have been 3-4 articles submitted to this debate including 1 from just a month ago.instead of just going after the one oldest article and adding no other info, why not comment on the ones that are more recent or you find more relevant? If it is not an interesting topic why comment?

You said the ratings were down nationally as well as locally, but then posted an article from last season to support that.  You had previously posted a recent article on regional ratings, but regional ratings are not what drive the big dollar television contracts, the national ratings do.  So I will ask yet again, are the national ratings down and if so, where is your proof of that?  I don't care about last season, I don't care about regional ratings, I care about the national ratings, what are those and how do those compare to prior years?

EDIT: and for the record, last year's regular season ratings saw a tremendous increase from the prior season.  http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/nba-tv-partners-playoffs-ratings-1201754874/.  Last year's Western Conference Finals on TNT were a ratings bonanza setting all kinds of records.  http://deadline.com/2016/05/nba-western-conference-game-six-ratings-tnt-1201764402/

edit: not worth it

[trickybilly]

Man, I wanted him, and I thought a huge failure by Ainge.. but trickybilly admits when trickybilly is wrong.

Bogut down after 90 seconds into his Cavs career.

[Celts Fan 508]

That was a good run for Bogut and the Cavs...

[hwangjini_1]

And this ends the bogut era in Cleveland.

Wow,poor guy.

[tarheelsxxiii]

Revisit THIS on July 1st Bogut. Screw you - we knew where you were going the whole time.

And we know that you'll injure yourself getting off the plane, Paul Bunyan.

QFT

[hpantazo]

And this ends the bogut era in Cleveland.

Wow,poor guy.

What happened to him?

[tarheelsxxiii]

And this ends the bogut era in Cleveland.

Wow,poor guy.

What happened to him?

I believe he sneezed.

And btw, I need you to have a better fantasy week than me.