Bogut Has Strong Interest in Joining C's (Update: Chooses Cavs)

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

[Evantime34]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

[D Dub]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very much? People that are hardly into basketball watch the finals because it decides the championship. There are different kinds of people that invest 6 months of their lives into regularly watching the 3-4 games a week that happen. The viewing of these 3-4 games every week are down and it holds true not only for local broadcasts but also TNT and national broadcasts.

I'll also admit there are a variety of factors that influence these ratings and some of it can be related to measurement issues. I am a bit bewildered though that people think the regular seasons are going to be as high as ever. A lot of nights the primetime product is crap that is out there. Look at tonight's games and compare it to how it would have looked even a few years ago.

The Warriors versus Bulls. Yes there is a little extra intrigue because Durant is injured and people want to see how the Warriors look without him. Even without Durant the Bulls are still 8 point underdogs at home to the Warriors (this means they would be 13 point underdogs if the game was in Oracle!). People can watch Rondo, Wade, Butler and an odd collection of frontcourt youngsters (portis) and castoffs (lauvergne, mirotic, Lopez) throw up bricks and probably lose by 8-10 points if they are lucky. Who wants to see that? Not the people of Chicago where local telecasts are down 35% from last year. (also lets not kid ourselves there are not 35% people watching on an app this year compared to last year). Now think about this game a few years ago. You would have had the Bulls being better with some superstar power in Rose (though battling injuries), an up and coming Butler plus stable vets like Gibson, Noah, Boozer etc. In fact that very good team gave Cleveland a couple of very good playoffs series.

The second game is Oklahoma City versus a Portland team that is 11th in the west. Maybe some people like seeing Westbrook chase triple doubles, but I think for a lot of people it is really ugly basketball. He just drives around at full speed, getting a lot of foul calls and dump offs being people by the triple. Has about 7 turnovers, 10 foul shots and nobody else on the team is moderately exciting to watch play. Compare that to last year when there was the presence of Durant and Ibaka to contribute the occasional highlight reels dunk, block or ball movement for open 3's. Portland doesn't play defense, is not competitive and shoots tons of 3's. Who here is excited about that game? I know I would have been a lot more excited about that game a few years ago when the Blazers still had Aldridge, Matthews and Batum alongside Lillard. This congregation of talent on these super teams makes these day to day games a lot less entertaining cause you have so many games like this. I don't think me and my friends and coworkers are super unique in that we find these matchups a lot less entertaining than we did a few years ago and watch less basketball because of it. These numbers all support that mindset and us not being crazy outliers.

[D Dub]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

[nickagneta]

The NBA makes most if its money off of national television contracts. National television contracts were solely responsible for the massive influx of money that lead to the explision of the salary cap. When measuring television ratings it is all important to start and basically stop at the national ratings of televised games and especially playoff games and the Finals. Those are the ratings that matter as they drive the national television contracts and should be the ratings to determine just how popular and how well the NBA is doing.

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

[celticsclay]

The NBA makes most if its money off of national television contracts. National television contracts were solely responsible for the massive influx of money that lead to the explision of the salary cap. When measuring television ratings it is all important to start and basically stop at the national ratings of televised games and especially playoff games and the Finals. Those are the ratings that matter as they drive the national television contracts and should be the ratings to determine just how popular and how well the NBA is doing.

Yes but that is part of the problem. The execs that paid for those deals (and this is a larger concern with national sports prices across the board) are now seriously worried about the return on their investment as the viewership goes down the money advertisers are willing to spend and long term will decrease decreasing revenue. This was a concern for the NBA during the most recent CBA and part of the reason they added even more stuff to try and keep stars on the teams that draft them. It is pretty much accepted that having stars leave the franchises to congregate on super teams is bad for "competitive balance" and they want all teams, including small market ones, to feel like they can win a championship each year. This isn't really rocket science or complicated... kind of surprised people are arguing it. 

[Moranis]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Dallas was a 42 win playoff team last year.  They are currently 24-36 and the 12th team in the West.  Dirk has played in just over half of their games.  of course their local ratings are down.  The team isn't very good, though it hasn't stopped people from going to Mavs games.  They still sell out every game.

and frankly the regional sports channel ratings don't drive much of anything.  I'd be curious to see what the TNT, ESPN, and ABC ratings look like and how they compare.  That is a much better gauge of the overall state of the league.

[nickagneta]

The NBA makes most if its money off of national television contracts. National television contracts were solely responsible for the massive influx of money that lead to the explision of the salary cap. When measuring television ratings it is all important to start and basically stop at the national ratings of televised games and especially playoff games and the Finals. Those are the ratings that matter as they drive the national television contracts and should be the ratings to determine just how popular and how well the NBA is doing.

Yes but that is part of the problem. The execs that paid for those deals (and this is a larger concern with national sports prices across the board) are now seriously worried about the return on their investment as the viewership goes down the money advertisers are willing to spend and long term will decrease decreasing revenue. This was a concern for the NBA during the most recent CBA and part of the reason they added even more stuff to try and keep stars on the teams that draft them. It is pretty much accepted that having stars leave the franchises to congregate on super teams is bad for "competitive balance" and they want all teams, including small market ones, to feel like they can win a championship each year. This isn't really rocket science or complicated... kind of surprised people are arguing it.

Your whole argument revolves around your words "as viewership goes down". But has national ratings gone down? I thought I read where last year's playoff ratings were up and higher than expected. Are this season's national ratings down? Because if they aren't, your entire argument about buyer remorse and future buying of sdvertisement space doesn't hold water.

[D Dub]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?
 

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Dallas was a 42 win playoff team last year.  They are currently 24-36 and the 12th team in the West.  Dirk has played in just over half of their games.  of course their local ratings are down.  The team isn't very good, though it hasn't stopped people from going to Mavs games.  They still sell out every game.

and frankly the regional sports channel ratings don't drive much of anything.  I'd be curious to see what the TNT, ESPN, and ABC ratings look like and how they compare.  That is a much better gauge of the overall state of the league.

Eh if you read the article you would realize this isn't just about the mavericks.
Nuggets down 38% (a better team than last year probably make the playoffs)
Spurs down 43% (slightly worse team than last year, perhaps viewed less as a title contender cause of warriors or perhaps people moving on with TD retirement)
Heat down 48% (obviously a worse team with less star power)
Even a team like the Wizards is down 12% despite being way way way better.

[celticsclay]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an app? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

It also strikes me as clearly being a question of "how much" not "if" for NBA ratings being down. Even Moranis hypothesized that part of the reason the Mavericks viewing is down because Dirk was not playing. Wouldn't that theory mean less people will watch their teams as their stars (KD, Love, Lebron, Gasol, Aldridge) congregate on other super teams?

[D Dub]

Ratings are down 15% across the board this season. A team like Dallas has their local telecasts down 50%! The finals have good ratings and sometimes the ECF and WCF. Everything else has been less competitive and the ratings reflect that

Where did you get this info?

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2017/02/20/Media/NBA-RSNs.aspx

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/2/10/10961328/local-mavericks-tv-ratings-have-fallen-off-dramatically-this-season

I don't really understand how people can think having two teams dominate the league is not going to impact the ratings negatively.

Edit: These two articles have different amounts for the mavericks, I don't have time to dig in deep to the methodology or if that is a difference in what time period they were going off, but the overal message is that while a few teams (76ers which were way up with Embid playing and competitive games), the heat, bulls, magic, nuggets, spurs etc are all down dramatically.

Hmm, do those ratings measure online viewership as well?  Lots of people these days cutting the cable tv cord.  I don't have cable, but still can watch all the games via NBA app + chromecast. 

After all, last years finals was highest rated game in 18 years.  Something doesn't fit here...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/index.html

How does it not fit at all? I have already acknowledged many times that the Finals are highly rated right now. It is common knowledge that people are really into the Warriors and Cavs finals and they are good competitive series with tons of star power (that have also gone 6 and 7 games).

That really isn't related at all how excited people are going to be for a wizards charlotte game during the season on a tuesday night. I'm not sure why you would think the finals ratings are going to be related to the local broadcasts during the regular season very quickly?

wasn't your whole point that a leagued dominated by two teams hurts ratings? 
cuz those are the two teams...

and you didn't talk about the streaming. 
viewership could very well be up, while TV ratings are down.

There are 1230 regular season games and a max of what 120 playoff games (and probably normally closer to 90 or something with lots of first round sweeps). You don't think it matters that these 1230 regular season games and the first 2 rounds of the playoffs there is way less interest because a lot of fans (rightfully so) feel their team has no shot? Or fans feel less interested because their teams have lost their stars to other team (heat and OKC)? It is great the finals get great ratings, but it is a big problem for the rest of the league when their national and local telecasts are down right now. It was similarly an issue for the NFL. They need to think of ways to improve the product in a world there are more competitive options of things to watch than ever before.

so you don't know if ratings include streaming or not. 

which means you can't be sure that viewership is in fact down.

and if you can't tell, how are you going to jump to all of those conclusions?

The ratings are down nationally and locally.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/whats-wrong-with-the-nbas-tv-ratings-1450744363

I can't really write a research thesis on this topic to address every answer you want for it. I am not even sure all of the data you want is publicly available. So just answer me this, do you honestly think that it is even possible the reason 50% less people are watching magic telecasts this season than last season is because 50% more are watching on an ap? That strikes me as a pretty absurd viewpoint.

Well, the Magic are pretty hard to watch, so i'll give you that one. 
So, I looked it up, and all these TV ratings do NOT include streaming viewership. 

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/solutions/measurement/television.html

Might explain the across the board trend for reg. season games, then the spike back up for playoffs?