The 2017 Brooklyn pick alone is an overpay for Jimmy Butler

[Evantime34]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Love deal as an outlier in terms of price. That was a unique situation in that LeBron wanted him so that lowered Cleveland's leverage in trading for him. However, I think the C's lose leverage in a trade because of how the C's won't have cap space after this summer and how everyone knows they want to trade for a star. When opposing GMs know what you want and that you have a limited window to get it, it costs you leverage.

As to Jimmy vs a top 4 pick, I think there is something to be said for trading for the sure thing rather than the pick with variable long term value. I guess it depends where you see Jimmy, I think he's a top 10 player in the NBA and I would trade a chance at prospect who could become a top 10 player, for a guy who is already a top 10 player.

[rochrist]

I don't think Butler is close to being a top 10 NBA player. But according to a lot of people, IT isn't a top 25 NBA player.

[tankcity!]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

[tankcity!]

TP Lrbrrd. Couldn't agree more.

[Moranis]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

I don't necessarily agree with your lists, but I absolutely agree that Butler is not a top 10 player in the league.

[tankcity!]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

I don't necessarily agree with your lists, but I absolutely agree that Butler is not a top 10 player in the league.

I didn't rank them in order...I literally did that all in my head. I don't know who you would take outside of that top ten tbh though. Cousins would probably be top ten though.

[oldtype]

He's not a consensus top ten player but I'd say he's in the argument for being in the tier after Lebron/Curry/Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Kawhi.  We'd call these guys "Top 5." 

"Top 10" is just shorthand for guys who are a bit worse than those but substantially better than "Top 20" players like Isaiah Thomas, Blake Griffin, Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward etc. 

You don't actually count to 5, 10, or 20, the lists are fuzzy and subjective, so that would be pointless.  It's better to think in terms of tiers.

[tankcity!]

He's not a consensus top ten player but I'd say he's in the argument for being in the tier after Lebron/Curry/Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Kawhi.  We'd call these guys "Top 5." 

"Top 10" is just shorthand for guys who are a bit worse than those but substantially better than "Top 20" players like Isaiah Thomas, Blake Griffin, Klay Thompson, Gordon Hayward etc. 

You don't actually count to 5, 10, or 20, the lists are fuzzy and subjective, so that would be pointless.  It's better to think in terms of tiers.

I understand your point, but did you see my list? He's on the IT tier lol. That's a huge diff then calling him a top ten player. You should only trade your Brooklyn pick for an Anthony Davis like player imo.

[Monkhouse]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

Yup.

I just don't like Butler's leadership. Yes, Russell was caught for worse, but he's young, and rich. So stupidity does become involved at times. But Butler is a grown man who's in the NBA, so he should know never to complain to the media.

I don't believe Butler is going to become that transcendental player. He's a great player, top 20. I would rather overpay for Klay Thompson, who I think is the second SG in the NBA, and would fit our offense perfectly.

I would certainly try to haggle the 2018 Nets pick, but even I'm wary of how much more advancements the Nets could get ahead next year, or how negligent their roster change is.

What do you think Butler's value is tankcity!

[tankcity!]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

Yup.

I just don't like Butler's leadership. Yes, Russell was caught for worse, but he's young, and rich. So stupidity does become involved at times. But Butler is a grown man who's in the NBA, so he should know never to complain to the media.

I don't believe Butler is going to become that transcendental player. He's a great player, top 20. I would rather overpay for Klay Thompson, who I think is the second SG in the NBA, and would fit our offense perfectly.

I would certainly try to haggle the 2018 Nets pick, but even I'm wary of how much more advancements the Nets could get ahead next year, or how negligent their roster change is.

What do you think Butler's value is tankcity!

They're going to want something. I would offer Bradley, Memphis Pick, every non-Brooklyn pick basically.

[RJ87]

IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.


I can keep going....

Stop that. He had an in-prime, All-star, All-Defensive player in Roy Hibbert, a still productive David West and Lance Stephenson, and a pretty-darn-good George Hill. Easily better than any player he has on his team right now.

Paul George is one of my favorite players in the league and I've hate what Indiana has built around him, but let's not pretend that he's never played with talent.

Back on topic: I'd give up the 17 pick for Butler, but I wouldn't offer much beyond that. My ideal scenario would be the 17 pick + AB + Rozier + salary filler (probably JJ).

[Monkhouse]

IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.


I can keep going....

Stop that. He had an in-prime, All-star, All-Defensive player in Roy Hibbert, a still productive David West and Lance Stephenson, and a pretty-darn-good George Hill. Easily better than any player he has on his team right now.

Paul George is one of my favorite players in the league and I've hate what Indiana has built around him, but let's not pretend that he's never played with talent.

Back on topic: I'd give up the 17 pick for Butler, but I wouldn't offer much beyond that. My ideal scenario would be the 17 pick + AB + Rozier + salary filler (probably JJ).

That is already way too much for me personally.

Butler is not taking us that much over the top to justify giving up Bradley, Rozier, and the 17th pick.

I would do the 17 pick, Rozier, and Salary filler, with 1-2 first round picks depending on which one it is.

If not, I'll move on.

There are certainly far more options.

[Moranis]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

Yup.

I just don't like Butler's leadership. Yes, Russell was caught for worse, but he's young, and rich. So stupidity does become involved at times. But Butler is a grown man who's in the NBA, so he should know never to complain to the media.

I don't believe Butler is going to become that transcendental player. He's a great player, top 20. I would rather overpay for Klay Thompson, who I think is the second SG in the NBA, and would fit our offense perfectly.

I would certainly try to haggle the 2018 Nets pick, but even I'm wary of how much more advancements the Nets could get ahead next year, or how negligent their roster change is.

What do you think Butler's value is tankcity!

They're going to want something. I would offer Bradley, Memphis Pick, every non-Brooklyn pick basically.

I'd actually be ok with the 2018 BKN pick and one of Bradley, Brown, Smart as well as some late 1st's like Boston's 2018 and/or 2019 (with lotto protections just in case) if I absolutely had to (since I think Boston will have too many players and not enough roster spots anyway). 

There is no way I trade the 2017 BKN 1st for Butler though, he just isn't worth that much.

[CelticGuardian]

I think Fultz can be as good as James Harden... Maybe even better.

[celticsclay]

Lol @ Jimmy Freaking Butler as a top ten player. Everyone talks about his elite D, but I see him getting burned by great SG/SF's all the time...

My top ten:
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Westbrook
Irving
Marc Gasol
Chris Paul
Kwai Leonard
James Harden
Anthony Davis

That's ten just on the top of my head. Here is more.

Joel Embiid is better.
I'd rather have Towns too
IMO Paul George since he's taken a scrub team to the ECF twice. Look at the players on his team's career now.
Blake Griffin is better.
How about Demarcus Cousins.

I can keep going....

Irving is probably not top 10, he may not even be top 20. He is certainly worse than thomas right now.

Also paul is not really there he either. His body just can't withstand a full season without getting injured. People have mentioned Melo's age ad nauseum but Paul will be 32 and has only completed one season healthy out of the last 6 all others one's he has missed 10 or more games and has been injured in the playoffs also. If the Clips resign him for 5 years at max they could come to really regret it.